[Yossarian]

It looks like I might have a chunk of time to get away climbing at the end of the year and I'm keen to figure out all the good options in an effort to maximise the chances of having a very good time. And hopefully start doing these sorts of trips a bit more often...

Kids and their mum are off to Tasmania to visit grandparents and though we had talked about me joining them at some point to climb there, I think the kids are still too young to make that worth it. Plus I will prob get sucked into sitting around in Hobart eating and drinking too much in the sun, so think I'll leave that for a few more years.

It's looking like they're leaving around the 9th, so potentially I might be able to escape for 3-4 weeks. The easy / straightforward option would be to go somewhere like El Chorro and do a load of fun sport climbing. Ditto Catalonia for chillier sport and bouldering. But I'm wondering whether that would actually be more fun than a more targeted / shorter trip.

My current favoured option is Frey (https://blog.arcteryx.com/brette-harrington-rock-climbing-in-frey/) - dunno if anyone on here has been, but I'd be keen to hear about it if you have. I spent some time mountain biking around there in the mid 2000s and really liked the area, plus it's quite quick / easy to get to, and it sounds like it's quite easy to pick up partners at the refugio, as well as doing stuff solo if necessary.

I imagine Potrero Chico would be another possibility. However, I really don't like spiders, so if big fuck off hairy ones are wandering around everywhere and jumping out of pockets I think i would find that quite traumatic.

I'm sure there are some places in the US that might work, plus elsewhere in south America.

Main criteria are potential to pick up some partners (unless anyone fancies teaming up), not loads of travelling hassle, adventurous (could be something other than trad or mountains, etc), fairly stable weather.

Any thoughts?

[SA Chris]

If you have 3-4 weeks, I'd definitely try and get out of Europe if you can afford it. Southern Spain should be good, but it could be cold and damp, and best saved for a shorted trip in nicer weather.

I'd personally go for the SW US, easy to get around, good for partner hook ups, good guidebooks, and option of locations, type of climbing and rock types and logistics of eating and places to stay are incredibly easy. Plus no shortage of non-climbing options (NPs etc for rest  / non-climbing days).

[spidermonkey09]

Don't let me tell you what to do, but I'd give serious thought to going to Tassie. 3/4 weeks doing a bit of climbing and drinking in Hobart/doing some amazing solo bushwalks sounds amazing to me. I spent a few months there and loved it. There is a decent facebook group which is good for partners in Hobart and everyone is incredibly friendly. The climbing is also amazing.

In the highly unlikely event you struggle to get partners you could have a great trip walking or just exploring. You could also combine it with a few weeks at Arapiles, followed by a few in Hobart.

[SA Chris]

Won't Arapiles be roasting in December?

[Yossarian]

I am kind of tempted by that, but I've been before for a few weeks (agree that it's an awesome place) and preferred the idea of waiting to go back for a more committed trip. But the facebook group thing sounds v promising, and I could combine it with doing something similar staying with friends in Perth. Hmmm...

[spidermonkey09]

Won't Arapiles be roasting in December?

I've climbed there in November. You obviously want the shade, but it's manageable. Depends what you're after I guess.

I am kind of tempted by that, but I've been before for a few weeks (agree that it's an awesome place) and preferred the idea of waiting to go back for a more committed trip. But the facebook group thing sounds v promising, and I could combine it with doing something similar staying with friends in Perth. Hmmm...

Perth was harder to get partners I found but the beaches are so good it doesn't really matter.

[Johnny Brown]

I would be tempted by Tassie too, though I've not been. Loads of inspiration: https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/publications/other_publications/adventures_at_the_edge_of_the_world_-_a_history_of_tasmanian_rock_climbing-12706

Not been to Frey but have done some solo travel in Patagonia. I would consider adding Fitz Roy and maybe Paine to your agenda, if only to sight see (assuming you've not been). Picking up partners would be no problem in El Chalten, although Dec is early season.

[SA Chris]

Won't Arapiles be roasting in December?

I've climbed there in November. You obviously want the shade, but it's manageable. Depends what you're after I guess.

Maybe I've lost tolerance, but in May there were times when it was too hot. Plus if you aren't keen on bugs and things it's best avoided.

[SA Chris]

Perth was harder to get partners I found but the beaches are so good it doesn't really matter.

Can always just get to the bouldering wall and get on willackers problems and go fishing.

[spidermonkey09]

Plus if you aren't keen on bugs and things it's best avoided.

You might as well apply this to the whole of Australia! If Araps is too hot then, then Perth definitely will be. Wouldn't be surprised if it was 40 degrees in Perth in December.

[SA Chris]

I wasn't recommending Perth btw. If you are visiting Oz for climbing it doesn't look to be high on the priority list.

Anyway, will you be mainly focusing on sport climbing Yos?

[Yossarian]

I've climbed in WA a couple of times in the distant past and liked it a lot. One of my dad's mates did a load of development and new routing in the 70s and I climbed with him and some of his mates last time I was there, but he's nearly 80 now. Both trips originated with the intent to climb lots but ended up being somewhat compromised by Perth bars, Margaret River wineries and recovering on the beach.

I had considered El Chalten too - I think Dec is probably ok for Frey but poss a bit early for the former, but the idea of tacking on a week to explore / have a look is pretty appealing. Would need to give some serious thought to acquiring some sort of exotically-knitted hat and a tin whistle...

Perth - I have a good mate there who I've not seen for a while which is why I was considering it. Margaret River wasn't too hot at NY the last time, and Albany might be cooler.

Def more interested in trad and bigger stuff than sport.

[spidermonkey09]

Yeah, its definitely good. I rated Wilyabrup in particular. Never got to West Cape Howe which also looked amazing, very adventurous. Lack of 4WD didn't help! I also had a really good day in the Porongorups doing a route on Bluff Knoll.

I want to go back now!

[dunnyg]

I went to WA as a kid on a non climbing trip. I have great memories of adventuring in the porongorups and gashing my arm open, and getting bollocked by teachers for soloing some easy granite(?) FAs on the coast in trainers.

I'd go for some of the Patagonia options,  another option down there is Cochamó valley. Looks rad, not sure on best time to visit or how easy to get partners.

If you do end up round there, I'd walk up one of the cool looking volcanoes too. Some of them are like what you would draw as a kid but with snow on.


Travelling to Patagonia does take an age though.

[Johnny Brown]

I think Cochamó is a bit of a trek just to get to the valley with limited facilities at the trailhead, I think picking up partners would be highly unlikely. Paine is similar but more popular.

Worth noting there is decent bouldering and cragging in El Chalten though not worth travelling for.

I didn't think getting to Patagonia was a bad as Australia, and the jet lag is much less. 

[Ged]

Loads of stuff in SW USA would probably fit the bill (j tree, Indian creek, bishop, cochise stronghold?). The only thing we found with that area after mid November is that the nights are very long, and pretty cold. So camping can get a bit grim. It'd be amazing if you don't mind that, or could find the occasional place to stay

[Yossarian]

I was wondering about that. I love the idea of going to those places (assume red rocks would be another possibility) though the logistics are probably slightly more involved.

I read about Cochamo a while back (I explored a bit around there too years ago, inc riding my bike up the Osorno volcano) but it does sound like a better place to visit as a team vs alone.

[seankenny]

Is Hueco still worth a visit despite the restrictions? Not entirely sure it’s a December place but if it’s dry and sunny then surely okay.

It also fulfils the essential criteria of being a “not very good/practical for a fortnight-long trip”.

[SA Chris]

Yeah, you would want to avoid camping, but there is a profusion of cheap off peak accommodation, provided you are not trying to get a room in Vegas on a weekend.

Red Rocks has everything you would want from bouldering and single pitch trad to sport climbs and multipitch epics. Loved the place, and the contrast of leaving the hotel in the morning to have a great day out and come back dusty, thirsty and tired and the same people are still sitting feeding the same slots is quite amazing.

[Coops_13]

As others have said the US has a lifetime worth of climbing to fit in in December. From a bouldering perspective, all of the below is in season:

 - Bishop
 - Hueco
 - Red Rocks
 - The South (Tenessee, Alabama, Georgia)
 - Joshua Tree
 - SW Utah (Moe's Valley, Mario Land) -> Joe's can be good if warm December
 - Unaweep Canyon (in W Colorado)
 - Roy (New Mexico)

Could easily hit most of that in a roadtrip depending on time:
Bishop -> Red Rocks -> SW Utah -> Joe's -> Unaweep -> Roy -> Hueco

[SA Chris]

Yeah that should do you for 4 weeks months years lifetimes.

[SA Chris]

- SW Utah (Moe's Valley, Mario Land) -> Joe's can be good if warm December

If it is cold at Joe's then Triassic / Land of a Thousand Boulders is nearby and lower /  warmer.

[Yossarian]

Wow. That would be quite a dream trip...

So it looks like I need to have a long hard look in the mirror and start trying to decide between rent-a-car radness tour vs Patagonian tin whistle tradfest vs chilled Margaret River semillon sauvignon.

[Paul B]

- Red Rocks

Red Rocks is amazing (I also got married there) but last time I visited I found the bureaucracy, coupled with its popularity really limiting. Stupid things like not being able to leave a car adjacent to the main highway (not in the loop) for 24H, late exit passes etc.

It made some of our objectives an absolute PITA.

[Ged]

If you have somewhwre to stay, bishop area is just ace. Obviously the bouldering, but there's some brilliant granite cragging around too.

If it was me, I'd get a cheap pad in moab, and turn into a crack wad for 4 weeks.

[jwi]

Isn't it a bit cold in Indian Creek in December? Or has global warming fixed that? Fifteen years ago we got a lot of snow in beginning of November over there.

[duncan]

I've pondered on where to go in December for most of my climbing career. The following is from a chuffing perspective, it would be much easier if I was sufficiently into bouldering to consider it a justification for an intercontinental trip.

Indian Creek and the desert towers will be cold. Joshua Tree will probably be cold. You might be lucky, particularly with JT, but it would be a gamble to have them as a primary destination in my view. Red Rock will be cold in some of the canyons but the sunlit faces should be very good. I enjoyed the adventure-lite routes in Red Rock but this was before the latest round of bureaucratic idiocy.

Cochise Stronghold and Mt. Lemmon (Arizona) are supposed to be good; I've not been.

You can of course fly to Las Vegas and have all these places and much of the bouldering Coops mentions within a day's drive (a long day to southern Arizona but probably less tiring than, say, Hastings to Malham).

Keen US climbers seem to head for El Potrero Chico, the standard international sport venues, or go bouldering.

Arapiles was getting hot in December 40 years ago. We relocated to Mt. Buffalo (10C cooler but not somewhere you'd fly around the world for); others went to Tassie or alpine climbing in New Zealand. The potential disadvantage of those places is the weather: it rains as much in Hobart as London in December and that's in the east coast rainshadow. I decided I hadn't travelled around the world to experience British-style climbing with British weather!

[Ged]

Yeah you're probably right about Utah.

Other option is Thailand, Laos and Vietnam.

[seankenny]

Other option is Thailand, Laos and Vietnam.

A few years ago I did a couple of days' climbing in Thailand and I did not rate it. Hot sweaty crags, it was quite rainy and humid and a bit despoiled. I perhaps got there too late, both in my life and its development as a tourist destination, but I know other people love it so perhaps I'm just picky.

Anyhow that visit was part of a longer trip for both work and fun in which I had perhaps the most pleasant climbing conditions I've ever found in December: very hot but super dry, perfectly climbable in the shade, just in shorts and a lovely cooling wind higher up. But that was on a big granite dome outside of Juba and no one is going to South Sudan on holiday quite yet. This did get me thinking that December would be a good time for climbing in those sorts of places - Dahab/Sinai (UKC did an article on it just this week), Hampi, Oman, etc.

Clearly lots of opportunity for pretty adventurous climbing: http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13201214669/South-Sinai-New-Routes

Quite different to a US south west bouldering tour...

[Ged]

 We had a great time in Thailand. But we were with a mate who guides out there, so got shown around some great places without going to tonsai, which sounds like it might be a bit of a circus these days.

I mean it's definitely going to be hot and sweaty, but has lots going for it as a fun destination.

[seankenny]

Going to Tonsai was my mistake, yes. Also I am allergic to Bob Marley songs.

[Steve R]

Don't think Turkey's been mentioned yet? Not adventurous or imaginative but looks ideal for rocking up solo, getting partners easily straight away and just doing loads of climbing.  Similar to Chorro in that 'Sports Soccer' sort of bracket of climbing destinations?     

[Yossarian]

Going to Tonsai was my mistake, yes. Also I am allergic to Bob Marley songs.

If at all possible I would like to completely avoid having to climb with any gap year kids in enormously baggy 3/4 length trousers.

I'm not averse to the idea of Asian options but, considering some of the options in the Americas, it would have to somewhere fairly adventurous and spectacular...

[dunnyg]

Jordan might be good for an adventure, probably requires a partner lined up though.

[Ged]

Going to Tonsai was my mistake, yes. Also I am allergic to Bob Marley songs.

If at all possible I would like to completely avoid having to climb with any gap year kids in enormously baggy 3/4 length trousers.

I'm not averse to the idea of Asian options but, considering some of the options in the Americas, it would have to somewhere fairly adventurous and spectacular...

Yeah forget Thailand then.

All the locals we met in Utah raved about cochise stronghold and Mount lemon.

[duncan]

Jordan might be good for an adventure, probably requires a partner lined up though.

Amazing place, needs a pre-arranged partner. UKC has suspiciously few ascents logged in December, Steve Long (not a softie) described it as "extremely cold". We had mostly good temperatures in mid-March.

Oman would be interesting.

[dunnyg]

Jebel Misht always looked incredible.

[Adam Lincoln]

Don't think Turkey's been mentioned yet?

I think Turkey looks crap. And from friends going a few times they confirm this. Good
If you want an all inclusive holiday in a 5 star hotel in Antalya.

Weather been bad there this year and it
Isn't un common at that time of year.

I really rated Thailand. Though i did go in 2006. Yes was a bit sweaty but climbing was great.

Been to hueco at xmas/ny a few times and its never disappinted. Same with Bishop and also Joes valley.

[dunnyg]

Saw some pictures of stuff on the Datca peninsular on the other channel that looks good in Turkey.
Can recommend the all inclusive hotels in Antalya for topping up your beach tan...

[Duma]

As someone who has actually been to Turkey, I can say it is absolutely not crap.

[Steve R]

Don't think Turkey's been mentioned yet?

I think Turkey looks crap. And from friends going a few times they confirm this. Good
If you want an all inclusive holiday in a 5 star hotel in Antalya.

Oh, that's good to know as been tempted to go. Why did it it take them more than one visit to decide it's crap though?
Thought it was a crusty run campsite sort of scene there rather than all inclusive hell.

[Yossarian]

Guy I know has been at Geyikbayiri on and off since the autumn and it does look pretty good (though they did have some bad weather). A bit like El Chorro, I wonder if it's the sort of place that would work fine for a week or two though, and maybe feel a bit like missing out on the opportunity to do something more hardcore...

A few months back I think I would've been pretty much sold on Spanish sport (plus some bouldering) and that might remain the backup - just pack the car, drive a long way and not come back until I've done some 8as.

But I think a semi-open-ended road trip through some deserts or getting to the top of a granite thing called cerro something are currently tied as the top option.

[Adam Lincoln]

Don't think Turkey's been mentioned yet?

I think Turkey looks crap. And from friends going a few times they confirm this. Good
If you want an all inclusive holiday in a 5 star hotel in Antalya.

Oh, that's good to know as been tempted to go. Why did it it take them more than one visit to decide it's crap though?
Thought it was a crusty run campsite sort of scene there rather than all inclusive hell.

Yeah crusty if you stay at the camping/shacks. They stayed for one night there and left because of the raw sewage running around everywhere.

[Adam Lincoln]

As someone who has actually been to Turkey, I can say it is absolutely not crap.

I trust my friends judgement enough to have crossed it off my list. Each to their own.

[Yossarian]

Three videos from Tyler Karow earlier this month seem to suggest Frey looks like an extremely fun destination...

[Fultonius]

Cochamo in Patagonia?  January is better IIRC, but I think December works.

[Yossarian]

I think that was mentioned further up the thread, but then dismissed as being not so straightforward esp the chances of picking up a partner.

[Fultonius]

I think that was mentioned further up the thread, but then dismissed as being not so straightforward esp the chances of picking up a partner.

Woops, searched this page but not the first. 

I should know in the next month or so what my work situation is...could be tempted by Frey!

[Yossarian]

Mine has slightly been turned upside down this month, but I'm still aiming to be out there from around 8/9 Dec until after new year. If you do get even vaguely tempted give me a shout...