Definitely interested in learning about what less volatile options you find interesting.
Pete’s thread about investing is focussed on high growth companies which can do spectacularly well or the opposite.
Can someone define value shares for me please?I've a few different definitions in my head.
Hopelessly naive but the more research I do, the more mistakes I make. So now I'm basically just throwing darts, given the above.
“Just one in four active fund managers that invest in large US-listed companies beat Wall Street’s S&P 500 share gauge in 2021, as stockpickers again struggled to match the returns delivered by cheap index trackers following the US equity market.”https://www.ft.com/content/d1f96d83-1a72-47d7-a4af-2483bd49b024
I'd be interested.. I've never invested until this year, now beginning to dabble. Mostly trackers but also some funds that invest in companies owning/developing renewable energy assets (which may fit with your preferred style).
Quote from: kelvin on February 23, 2022, 09:08:43 pmCan someone define value shares for me please?I've a few different definitions in my head.Great question! In the generic sense every shareholder believes that there is sufficient value in their investment that the share price will rise otherwise they’d sell. However, value investing has a more specific meaning and weighs up the value of the tangible assets owned by a company (cash, property etc) it’s dividend payout, its earnings (profit) record and its level of debt. The key metrics are P/TNAV (share price to tangible net asset value ie assets minus debt) PE (share price to earnings) and Dividend Yield (share price to dividend).
Not very racy but VLE (Volvere) is a cautious turnaround operation with a great track record of buying distressed companies cheaply turning them around and selling them for multiples of the purchase price. They have recently raised a lot of money through a placing so have a sizeable war chest to take advantage of the current market conditions. There is a lot of downside protection as their market cap is roughly equivalent to their ‘true’ NAV. There is a great thread on ADVFN if you want to look into it further. Because of some recent stupid rules it’s classed as a complex investment (it isn’t) so you can’t buy it in an ISA. I hold mine in a SIPP. It’s by far my largest holding.
Quote from: shark on January 15, 2021, 08:39:04 pmNot very racy but VLE (Volvere) is a cautious turnaround operation with a great track record of buying distressed companies cheaply turning them around and selling them for multiples of the purchase price. They have recently raised a lot of money through a placing so have a sizeable war chest to take advantage of the current market conditions. There is a lot of downside protection as their market cap is roughly equivalent to their ‘true’ NAV. There is a great thread on ADVFN if you want to look into it further. Because of some recent stupid rules it’s classed as a complex investment (it isn’t) so you can’t buy it in an ISA. I hold mine in a SIPP. It’s by far my largest holding.Good results from Volvere today and it’s up 7.5%. It’s main investment (80% holding) Shire Foods has increased revenue by 13% to £30.6m, and PBT is up a 18% to £2.14m - an excellent result in the face of general rising raw materials, energy, logistic and staff costsIt’s more recent smaller turnaround investment - Indulgence - increased revenues by 21%, but made a £1m loss so still work in progress.They have cash of £21.9m for new investments and the Shire investment is likely to be worth in excess of £18m against a market cap of £31m so plenty of downside asset protection and upside opportunity when they flip Shire but patience is required.
Mine is in an ISA, by the way, so you can get it in one.
Guess I’m talking to myself with regard to boring value plays but further to previous posts on LDG the proposed changes to the investment policy and the share buyback has been approved. An exemption has been approved such that the reduction in shares from the buyback won’t automatically trigger a takeover requirement for DBay and concert party if the threshold is crossed. The proportion of equity held by them is a concern and the risk of a future stitch up for private investors is concerning but given their activities reputational damage is important. The announcement has triggered a small rise today but only to 13.8p whilst the current cash per share stands at 18.7p (I think). That cash per share figure will rise as they buyback shares at a discount to cash. The change in investment policy now gives DBay in its role as investment manager virtual free rein to invest in a wide range of sectors in unlisted and listed companies. Their track record in this respect is excellent. If the buyback clears out disaffected shareholders such that the gap closes between the market SP and the Cash per Share then I’ll most likely sell out. If not I’m happy to wait and see how they invest the remaining cash.
Well if you had not ruined it by wearing them out you could have been cashing in by now......https://www.outside.co.uk/climbing-gear/climbing-footwear/rock-climbing-shoes/five-ten-anasazi-lace-v2-white-climbing-shoe.htmlThis will only make sense if the link is not updated soon!
Prior to a sharp bounce this week, the picture was even worse. And people really hate seeing their bonds go down. Much more so than stocks.Understandable. For years no long-term investor has bought bonds expecting much in the way of a return (even though that’s actually what they got, at least until recently).Rather, bonds were for buoyancy in the bad times. Yet now they’ve been taking on water – just when we’d want them to float.Unfortunately this was pretty inevitable.Global yields hit multi-century lows after the financial crisis. Sooner or later they were likely to rise.The snag was everyone who ever said ‘sooner’ was wrong – up until the past six months. Now we have to pay the piper.Worse, the same issues roiling the bond market are also what’s pulling at least some of the strings of the stock market. Hence shares and bonds falling together.The good news is lower bond prices mean higher yields, and hence higher future returns.That’s little comfort if you already own a bunch down big. But the declines are starting to make government bonds half-attractive again, and reinvesting your bond income will help eventually.All presuming, of course, that central banks get inflation back under control.
Fultonius, if that's really the correct return then you might do better putting into a zero risk Chase instant access account and getting 1.5% per annum, interest paid monthly. That's where my spare cash currently resides.
I found out about this account via Money Saving Expert and its great; I'm a mug for not having my savings in there for years
Pete’s thread about investing is focussed on high growth companies which can do spectacularly well or the opposite. My investing focuses more on companies where the upside is less exciting but seems to limit the downside typically from tangible assets held by the company.
Are you just randomly labelling peak prices of VLE and LDG as when they represented value?
Not mentioned Quarto QRT before mainly because it’s a bit more complicated than the others I’ve mentioned. Bought some a year ago without looking into it too much and it has doubled in value since then although dropped back a bit in the last week. Having recently looked into it some more which has been an education and invested more. I’m told it is one of cheapest shares out there based on cash generation as a metric and fair value should be in the region of £4/5 rather than current £1.50. I really should look into and understand this metric more as it’s going to be a more reliable value indicator than the more usual price earnings (PE) figure when the Earnings bit can be legally played about with by clever Finance Directors. Anyway - why is it so cheap? According to this article it’s because there is a danger of it being taken private. The story is that veteran investor CK Lau took a large stake as well as the Executive Director role at QRT (an underperforming book publisher) and successfully turned it around. He has been buying up more shares which along with their good results has driven up the price and he now has a 50% stake. Because QRT is domiciled in Delaware it is not directly subject to UK company law even though it operates as a UK company - so for example it is audited as if it was a UK company. However, it is not subject to the UK takeover code where exemptions have to be obtained if a person’s holding (and any associated parties) exceed 30%. Last year the FCA reduced its requirement for a listed company from 25% to 10% of shares being in public hands (the free float). There is another 20% owned by a vehicle associated with another Director so the free float currently is 30%. Therefore Lau can still potentially still buy up to another 20% stake before breaching listings rules. It is also possible that he could take just another 5% and come to an agreement with the investment vehicle to use their combined 75% vote to take the company private. The fear here is, as the linked article points out, that you are left with untradeable shares. However, normal practice is to make a reasonable offer to minority shareholders and Lau (I’m told) has a good track record in this respect.My take is he will keep buying the shares whilst he thinks they are a good price and that in turn will help keep pushing the price up 🤞