[MischaHY]

The BMC have put the film about Emma Twyford's ascent of Big Bang up on youtube. Nice flick if you haven't seen it before.

Nice to see some footage of Emma doing Big Bang but what the fuck is Gresh doing speaking on it!? He’s never climbed 9a, not put any time into the route. Steve is the most appropriate one and even he’s massively inappropriate. Why not interview Caff, Neil Carson, some of Emma’s female contemporaries like Mina or hazel or maddy? Seemed weird to me.

I thought about this whilst watching this and then came to the conclusion that it was really quite clever because here you had three men who have heavily influenced and certainly in the case of Steve/Jerry dominated the British climbing scene and yet none of them could do the route that Emma did.

From that perspective it makes much more sense why they're all going on about how hard it is etc because the important thing for the audience to understand is 'we are/were some of the best climbers in the UK and this was too hard for us'.

From a sport perspective it offers a nice representation of how small the gap is between men and women in climbing (one of the very few sports with such close competitiveness?) and also focuses the viewer on paying attention to the difficulty.

That being said I also zoned out quite quickly and would have liked to hear from the first ascentionist and Caff who could offer personal perspective on the route so maybe I'm just chatting s**t.

[Doylo]

Of course McClure could do it. Just the usual self depreciation yarn. He’s been up it a few times probably years apart (same as all the other hard routes down there which he hasn’t done). Need to be a feather with good power endurance  who can crimp crozzle , ie himself .

[abarro81]

Was chatting to Steve the other day about what a ballache it would be to try something hard on a Welsh sea cliff while living in Sheffield. I suspect that's why he's not done it.

[petejh]

It's all relative isn't it - people spend inordinate amounts of time on all sorts of projects close to home and far away. I'm pretty sure you could crunch some numbers to come up with a reasonable estimate of the likelihood of success on a given route at a given ability level, within a given timeframe, given x-number of visits per year and factoring for x-number of poor connies days/tides.
On a spectrum of reasons for not putting serious time/effort into any of the hardest Welsh sport routes his attitude appears to me to be closer to the 'can't be bothered/not psyched' end and further from the 'it's genuinely too impractical' end. Totally understandable for someone to not be psyched by any of the routes, each to their own etc. Less understandable (to me) to think they make impractical projects for a climber of his ability.

[Nike Air]

Did Jerry seriously try BB?

Sheffield is the furthest City from the sea so I can imagine it takes some motivation but it can't be more than a 30min extra drive from Sheffield to LPT than it is to Malham.
I'd have thought that would be doable using the car sharing system they have going on there or doing a couple of days in a van.

[remus]

Did Jerry seriously try BB?

In Shark's interview with Neil Carson Neil briefly mentions Jerry trying it, reading between the lines it sounds like Jerry put a session or two in but didn't commit to it seriously.

[Doylo]

Was chatting to Steve the other day about what a ballache it would be to try something hard on a Welsh sea cliff while living in Sheffield. I suspect that's why he's not done it.

Yes that is why. He's always said it. Hence why he's done nothing above 8b+ down there (onsight grade). I belayed him pissing all over Sea Of in two halfs with the Pete Dawson crimpy lefthand beta (years before) and never tried again.
Same with Liquid, tried donkeys ago, did moves and don't think tried again.

[Doylo]

Jerry abbed it, thought it looked impossible - which it does cos tops blank looking and bolted Liquid instead (I think- minds not what it one was).  He definitely didn't put any proper effort in. Ben Moon put a tiny effort in but judging by Keith Sharples pics was trying with proper duff beta going left hand first on crux 'slab' (hence saying top was 7C+).

[abarro81]

I think you maybe misunderstood me Jordan and Pete, I wasn't saying either of us thought it wouldn't be feasible (I drove over a lot to do pilgrimage), just not particularly worth the hassle. Much fewer people doing the drive so less lift sharing available than M/K.. 5+ hrs round trip instead of 4.. sea grease.. tides.. I can imagine doing it for Dark Energy but probably not anything else over there unless I ran out in Yorks or it was a wet year, it's defo more PITA than Yorkshire so you'd need to be quite psyched for the route if you thought it would be more than a couple of weekends effort. Especially if you have any commitments that limit the days available (e.g. if restricted to weekends).

[Ged]

I've only done it a couple of times when visiting my folks in sheffield, but Sheff to malham always seems like the biggest PITA drive in the known universe.

[petejh]

No I totally understood you. He’s not psyched, and that’s fair enough. I just find it a little bit disingenuous - possibly out of not wanting to say the routes don’t inspire - to write off trying because ‘it’s a ball-ache’. It isn’t the other end of the world. Just say you’re not psyched by the routes.

On a spectrum of reasons for not putting serious time/effort into any of the hardest Welsh sport routes his attitude appears to me to be closer to the 'can't be bothered/not psyched' end and further from the 'it's genuinely too impractical' end.

[Doylo]

No I totally understood you. He’s not psyched, and that’s fair enough. I just find it a little bit disingenuous - possibly out of not wanting to say the routes don’t inspire - to write off trying because ‘it’s a ball-ache’. It isn’t the other end of the world. Just say you’re not psyched by the routes.

On a spectrum of reasons for not putting serious time/effort into any of the hardest Welsh sport routes his attitude appears to me to be closer to the 'can't be bothered/not psyched' end and further from the 'it's genuinely too impractical' end.

Definitely don’t say it’s too hard for you when that’s blatantly bollocks even if is an attempt to big up someone else’s ascent .

[Wood FT]

I've only done it a couple of times when visiting my folks in sheffield, but Sheff to malham always seems like the biggest PITA drive in the known universe.

It’s so hard wired into many that the journey seems inconsequential

[Stu Littlefair]

No I totally understood you. He’s not psyched, and that’s fair enough. I just find it a little bit disingenuous - possibly out of not wanting to say the routes don’t inspire - to write off trying because ‘it’s a ball-ache’. It isn’t the other end of the world. Just say you’re not psyched by the routes.

On a spectrum of reasons for not putting serious time/effort into any of the hardest Welsh sport routes his attitude appears to me to be closer to the 'can't be bothered/not psyched' end and further from the 'it's genuinely too impractical' end.

Oh look, people are taking positions at the poles of an argument on the internet for no reason.

Obviously the truth is somewhere in between; people are psyched by the routes, but not enough to face the drive and unreliable conditions when there are options nearer by. If routes like  Dark Energy, The Pink Star etc were 5 minutes outside Tideswell they'd be at the very top of my "to try" list. The faff involved puts them at the bottom instead.

[Bradders]

I've only done it a couple of times when visiting my folks in sheffield, but Sheff to malham always seems like the biggest PITA drive in the known universe.

Agree, I find the drive to Malham a real ball ache and I live in Leeds! Amazing how many people do it from Sheffield (and Kilnsey really) as such a matter of routine.

[Nike Air]

Just admit they are too hard for you and let that be the end of it.. 

Back to Carson, did he ever climb any 8c+s or were there not that many around to try?

[El Mocho]

Dark Energy is the best sport route in the UK.

That's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.

[Ged]

You've clearly never climbed on South Devon conglomerate sandstone.

[mrjonathanr]

Dark Energy is the best sport route in the UK.

That's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.

The Matlock quarries must be better than I thought.

[petejh]

Oh look, people are taking positions at the poles of an argument on the internet for no reason.

Not really Stu, I don't have any strong views on this. I just found it notable that someone suggested a climber easily capable of climbing all the hardest sport routes in N.Wales thinks it's too much of a ball-ache when, really, in the big picture it isn't. It's obviously just an issue of perspective.

'More of a ball-ache than the less of a ball-ache places I prefer to go'.

If routes like  Dark Energy, The Pink Star etc were 5 minutes outside Tideswell they'd be at the very top of my "to try" list. The faff involved puts them at the bottom instead.

Hang on let me just google the definition of 'damning with faint praise'

[Doylo]

Dark Energy is the best sport route in the UK.

That's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.

Be the best in the world if most the holds weren’t like butter most the summer, the top was dry more than 2.8% of the time and without the new seal ban in September when it’s finally climbable . Is like a piece of world class art that they only put on display 5 days a year .

[petejh]

You also forgot the awkward climb-down to the beach.. where rungs were put in to make it easier but stupid tourists broke their ankle falling off so the council made us remove.

Could be worse though, it could be on the Diamond.

[Doylo]

2.8 % was overly generous. Someone needs to go to town on the Maritime turf again. Or another Pigeon's drainpipe.  Mike Psyche lives in Liverpool, tried a few years and the factors never seem to lineup.

[El Mocho]

Dark Energy is the best sport route in the UK.

That's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.

Be the best in the world if most the holds weren’t like butter most the summer, the top was dry more than 2.8% of the time and without the new seal ban in September when it’s finally climbable . Is like a piece of world class art that they only put on display 5 days a year .

You also forgot the awkward climb-down to the beach.. where rungs were put in to make it easier but stupid tourists broke their ankle falling off so the council made us remove.

Could be worse though, it could be on the Diamond.

These are all things which make it better.

[Andy F]

Ted projecting Just Do It is proper long distance projecting. Driving to LPT is bugger all in comparison.

[abarro81]

You're being deliberately obtuse Pete

[petejh]

Err, what?!

I 'might' be being obtuse - I had to look it up (''annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand''). If so then I promise you I'm not being 'deliberately' obtuse. What am I (supposedly deliberately) not understanding here?

[abarro81]

Basically what Stu said. Which is basically what I said. It's not disingenuous to say that people in Sheffield don't go try these things because of the faff, it's why Stu and me and Steve don't. Steve says plenty of disingenuous stuff but I don't think this is one of those things; I can assure you it's true for me; and I have no reason to disbelieve Stu. You may think that's pathetic but that's by the by, literally everything that's too much of a ballache is really "more of a ballache than the alternative that I chose instead" or whatever you phrased it as, making using that argument obtuse/redundant, I'd assumed deliberately/belligerently so since you usually seem more clever than that (take that for daming with faint praise )

[DAVETHOMAS90]

 

Is this pay per view?

[petejh]

Basically what Stu said. Which is basically what I said. It's not disingenuous to say that people in Sheffield don't go try these things because of the faff, it's why Stu and me and Steve don't. Steve says plenty of disingenuous stuff but I don't think this is one of those things; I can assure you it's true for me; and I have no reason to disbelieve Stu. You may think that's pathetic but that's by the by, literally everything that's too much of a ballache is really "more of a ballache than the alternative that I chose instead" or whatever you phrased it as, making using that argument obtuse/redundant, I'd assumed deliberately/belligerently so since you usually seem more clever than that (take that for daming with faint praise )

Weird direction this has taken. Remind me again where I said your lack of affection for spending time on the M56 was pathetic? It appears a nerve has been touched among you delicate flowers.

So really it's all too hard for you then  . 

[reeve]

I've nothing much to add other than this four year-old quote from you, Pete

Top Spankings
The drive to the Tor to try Mecca. A round trip of 4.5 to 5hrs from Llandudno each time to try a proj at my limit. What had seemed like a good idea in spring 2016 turned into a total motivation-killer by autumn of 2017. On the first drive over of last autumn I found myself at half-way just after Knutsford asking myself what the fuck I was doing this for, wasting my time on the road. I sacked it all off there and then, turned the car around and went home to have a great day in the cave! One day hopefully I'll be back, when I'm stronger and can do it more quickly - the route that is, not the drive.. In the meantime I'm picking stuff local to me for proj's at my limit.

 

[Doylo]

Basically what Stu said. Which is basically what I said. It's not disingenuous to say that people in Sheffield don't go try these things because of the faff, it's why Stu and me and Steve don't. Steve says plenty of disingenuous stuff but I don't think this is one of those things; I can assure you it's true for me; and I have no reason to disbelieve Stu. You may think that's pathetic but that's by the by, literally everything that's too much of a ballache is really "more of a ballache than the alternative that I chose instead" or whatever you phrased it as, making using that argument obtuse/redundant, I'd assumed deliberately/belligerently so since you usually seem more clever than that (take that for daming with faint praise )

Weird direction this has taken. Remind me again where I said your lack of affection for spending time on the M56 was pathetic? It appears a nerve has been touched among you delicate flowers.

So really it's all too hard for you then  . 

Barrows hasn’t been back to LPT since he failed to do the moves on Walking Mussel.

[petejh]

Pussy.

I've nothing much to add other than this four year-old quote from you, Pete

Top Spankings
The drive to the Tor to try Mecca. A round trip of 4.5 to 5hrs from Llandudno each time to try a proj at my limit. What had seemed like a good idea in spring 2016 turned into a total motivation-killer by autumn of 2017. On the first drive over of last autumn I found myself at half-way just after Knutsford asking myself what the fuck I was doing this for, wasting my time on the road. I sacked it all off there and then, turned the car around and went home to have a great day in the cave! One day hopefully I'll be back, when I'm stronger and can do it more quickly - the route that is, not the drive.. In the meantime I'm picking stuff local to me for proj's at my limit.

 

Haha! I'm not Ste Mac or it would have been a day hit (2 days for Barrows) 
(and I gave it two years.. Not two days!)

[Doylo]

Pussy.

I've nothing much to add other than this four year-old quote from you, Pete

Top Spankings
The drive to the Tor to try Mecca. A round trip of 4.5 to 5hrs from Llandudno each time to try a proj at my limit. What had seemed like a good idea in spring 2016 turned into a total motivation-killer by autumn of 2017. On the first drive over of last autumn I found myself at half-way just after Knutsford asking myself what the fuck I was doing this for, wasting my time on the road. I sacked it all off there and then, turned the car around and went home to have a great day in the cave! One day hopefully I'll be back, when I'm stronger and can do it more quickly - the route that is, not the drive.. In the meantime I'm picking stuff local to me for proj's at my limit.

 

In the internet age nothing is tomorrow’s chip paper .

[Will Hunt]

Throw his kneepads/drill into the sea, Pete/Alex.

 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Pussy.

I've nothing much to add other than this four year-old quote from you, Pete

Top Spankings
The drive to the Tor to try Mecca. A round trip of 4.5 to 5hrs from Llandudno each time to try a proj at my limit. What had seemed like a good idea in spring 2016 turned into a total motivation-killer by autumn of 2017. On the first drive over of last autumn I found myself at half-way just after Knutsford asking myself what the fuck I was doing this for, wasting my time on the road. I sacked it all off there and then, turned the car around and went home to have a great day in the cave! One day hopefully I'll be back, when I'm stronger and can do it more quickly - the route that is, not the drive.. In the meantime I'm picking stuff local to me for proj's at my limit.

 

In the internet age nothing is tomorrow’s chip paper .

"In the internet age nothing is tomorrow’s chip paper ."

That's brilliant 

[cowboyhat]

Original P-Rob who knows a thing or two about climbing hard at LPT has always said its a fucking ball ache and he can see it from his house*.

And that Big Bang is an acquired taste; maybe another factor? Sure its hard, but is it good?

If you're going to climb hard though you do sometimes have to give yourself half a chance, let things line up, take the easier choice etc. Hence the justification for attending Raven Tor that I frequently wheel out; it is the closest crag with hard routes to my house.


*Read this ye pedant

[Doylo]

Acquired taste maybe but also somewhat enforced as it’ll cut you to shreds unless you’re tiny. All the ascentionists have been able to stand on an egg without it cracking. Robins would have passed the test in 09/10 but dinner parties had resumed by the time he tried Big Bang.

[cowboyhat]

No it doesn't sound very good.

[Doylo]

It’s great if you can stand on an egg.