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Home warming thread (Read 8701 times)

Teaboy

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#25 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 11:52:27 am

unless taken as a whole you do tend to create other issues or spunk your money away for no real gain (environmentally or otherwise), unless you're either very lucky (not like me) or well informed.

Thanks for the link and sharing your experiences. The room by room approach was what I was going to do, are you saying you don’t get any benefit or that it would be better to do the whole house. Some of the things recommended are never going to be possible in my house (moving every window!?) but surely adding internal insulation to the external walls can help?

SA Chris

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#26 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 11:59:37 am
I think the biggest heat loss in our house is down through to the double garage which is beneath the main bedroom, with very little / no insulation in the floor. I'd be reluctant to pull up the entire floor and insulate beneath (floor to ceiling IKEA wardrobes etc) but would covering the garage roof with insulation boarding be a good fix, or would it make little difference?

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#27 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 12:03:49 pm
Thanks Chris, just ordered a pair of those Sherpa Slipper Boots for 20squid, luvvlyjubbly

casa

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#28 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 12:09:05 pm
Chris, and i think insulation board to the garage roof ceiling would defo make a difference

Teaboy

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#29 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 12:12:13 pm
I think the biggest heat loss in our house is down through to the double garage which is beneath the main bedroom, with very little / no insulation in the floor. I'd be reluctant to pull up the entire floor and insulate beneath (floor to ceiling IKEA wardrobes etc) but would covering the garage roof with insulation boarding be a good fix, or would it make little difference?

Can you not insulate from below between the rafters? Removing the ceiling if necessary

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#30 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 12:38:45 pm
I think the biggest heat loss in our house is down through to the double garage which is beneath the main bedroom, with very little / no insulation in the floor. I'd be reluctant to pull up the entire floor and insulate beneath (floor to ceiling IKEA wardrobes etc) but would covering the garage roof with insulation boarding be a good fix, or would it make little difference?

Can you not insulate from below between the rafters? Removing the ceiling if necessary

Yes, this is about as good as it gets for piecemeal approach

SA Chris

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#31 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 12:41:15 pm
I could, but that would mean removing and replacing about 20 sq m of plasterboard which would be a grim and time consuming job, and result in a lot of landfill.

SA Chris

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#32 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 12:43:19 pm
Thanks Chris, just ordered a pair of those Sherpa Slipper Boots for 20squid, luvvlyjubbly

You'll not regret it.

rodma

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#33 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 12:51:55 pm

unless taken as a whole you do tend to create other issues or spunk your money away for no real gain (environmentally or otherwise), unless you're either very lucky (not like me) or well informed.

Thanks for the link and sharing your experiences. The room by room approach was what I was going to do, are you saying you don’t get any benefit or that it would be better to do the whole house. Some of the things recommended are never going to be possible in my house (moving every window!?) but surely adding internal insulation to the external walls can help?

I'm not saying that it isn't worthwhile, just worth thoroughly researching prior to spending (what is a lot of) time and money into it.

Insulating internally can work, but maintaining the insulation line is very difficult (Sam pointed this out earlier, hence why external wall insulation is looking most likely for a lot of old housing stock)

My kitchen-diner is now fairly airtight to the immediate outside world, but is nowhere near airtight up to the eaves space. As such, where warm air used to escape to the outdoors, it now condenses on the copper nails (as conductive as you can get, but required for marine environment) and drips down onto the glass wool above the ceiling. If we were to replace the whole ceiling in this room and remove the downlighters (which allow a silly volume of air through), replacing them with something else that doesn't penetrate the ceiling, this problem would largely go away.

Mrs rodma is dead-against EWI, so we'll be freezing in this house forever, since the external area of the house is about as large as is possible when compared to the area of living space internally.

We need more square, two up, two down and terraced housing. Looks boring, but is (blanket statement alert) generally more efficient.

We're similar to others on here, where we line longed to have our own four walls, no immediate neighbors to either upset or be upset by, and that's the root of the problem; those pesky noisy neighbors helped keep us warm




SamT

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#34 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 01:15:34 pm
I think the biggest heat loss in our house is down through to the double garage which is beneath the main bedroom, with very little / no insulation in the floor. I'd be reluctant to pull up the entire floor and insulate beneath (floor to ceiling IKEA wardrobes etc) but would covering the garage roof with insulation boarding be a good fix, or would it make little difference?

I reckon you'd not regret that .  If head room is not an issue - 50mm of PIR board (or 62.5mm if its bonded to plasterboard) right across the ceiling will help make the bedroom feel warmer.

One thought though, just double check fire regs.  You most likely need to double board i.e. 2 layers of plasterboard, to give the requisite fire resistance.  I'm not up on that side of things.  Petrol/cars/lawn mowers/solvents/aerosols etc in garage can catch fire.  Its not that you're making things any worse - lets face it, timber joists will soon go up in flames, but may be worth doing the job right if you do it.

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#35 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 01:19:57 pm

On the negative side - we have an Aga.

Know so many people (ok maybe a few) who have moved in to a house with one, seen fuel bills after use, removed and sold.

Between that and the general "having to completely change the way you cook things" thing we are moving very close to that position I think!

SamT

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#36 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 01:36:17 pm
Just as a point of order

Modern gas combi boilers are ~ 96% efficient

Hmm - not quite true - 89 point something percent usually.  Heating oil and LPG boilers are little more efficient - maybe 91.
https://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbsearchresults.jsp?fuel=1&mainType=2&brand=&model=&modelQualifier=&pid=26&btnSubmit=Search

Quote
modern combi boilers are about as efficient a way to use gas as possible

Agreed.  Plus there is no transmission loss across the network, the gas you put in the pipe at Milford Haven is the gas you get out in Sheffield.  (albeit with a tiny tiny calorific value loss due to moisture content increasing along the way, you can see how they correct for this on your bill)

The national electricity grid is horribly in-efficient with losses along every step of the way (power station, transformers, cables etc).

IF, and its a big if, we find a cheap, easy way to produce Hydrogen, and (and its a big and) the gas network can be upgraded to take hydrogen*, and, boilers can be manufactured to burn it safely in the home, then we might have a truly efficient, ultra low, non nuclear energy source.  We can but dream.

(* hydrogen, being such a tiny atom, compared to the long chain molecules of methane/ethane/propane, will leak through gaps in the gas distribution network that we don't even know about yet. ).





Fultonius

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#37 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 09:11:22 pm
I could, but that would mean removing and replacing about 20 sq m of plasterboard which would be a grim and time consuming job, and result in a lot of landfill.

Don't forget, it might improve the house warmth but will make your garage (AKA climbing wall) colder...

SA Chris

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#38 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 09:14:32 pm
Given that it's piss poorly insulated, and very draughty, and has a  double single sheet metal door, I think heat retention in there is zero anyway.

teestub

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#39 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 10:10:00 pm

IF, and its a big if, we find a cheap, easy way to produce Hydrogen, and (and its a big and) the gas network can be upgraded to take hydrogen*, and, boilers can be manufactured to burn it safely in the home, then we might have a truly efficient, ultra low, non nuclear energy source.  We can but dream.

(* hydrogen, being such a tiny atom, compared to the long chain molecules of methane/ethane/propane, will leak through gaps in the gas distribution network that we don't even know about yet. ).

I feel like we have as much chance as rolling out nuclear fusion across the country!

SamT

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#40 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 11:01:38 pm

teestub

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#41 Re: Home warming thread
February 09, 2022, 11:56:18 pm
Ha that was my inspiration for bringing it up as a comparison! Fun ideas for the future that seem v v unlikely to be making a dent in our current requirement for net zero.

Teaboy

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#42 Re: Home warming thread
November 08, 2022, 06:07:43 pm
Having done little about this over the summer's now in panic mode looking at front doors. I've got a couple of quotes from mainstream suppliers (SafeStyle and Anglian) which I'm ok with but neither seemed up on thermal efficiency (both were the warmest on the market though!). Reading around I'd say these would have U values of about 1.5 to 1.8, are there doors out there that are significantly better and if not will a standard composite give me a significant improvement on my existing part single glazed, single skin door?

Another idea is to replace the glazed glazed panel and fan light with a new sealed unit, anyone does this as a DIY task?

Teaboy

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#43 Re: Home warming thread
November 08, 2022, 06:29:28 pm
While we're on the subject I've also got a rough estimate for external insulation. As the house is in a conservation area I think I'll only be able to get permission for two or three of the four aspects. Is this completely pointless or worth doing?

Leaving aside the fact that she walls would be insulation free I just can't imagine getting the solid walls warm enough for them not to be a massive heat sink, anyone experience of this?

wasbeen

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#44 Re: Home warming thread
November 08, 2022, 07:17:02 pm
The fact they are solid walls will not affect the efficiency of the insulation, although you have to be a bit wary of heat bridging to the non insulated walls. The walls will effectively act as heat stores (storage heaters) and help maintain a constant indoor temperature (in summer too). Internal insulation could be an option, you can get insulated plasterboard that will only lose a couple of inches of room. With insulation, there are diminishing returns with thickness. So you get a similar difference in u-value going from 0-50mm of loft insulation as from 50-300mm.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2022, 07:24:03 pm by wasbeen »

Teaboy

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#45 Re: Home warming thread
November 08, 2022, 08:30:29 pm
Thanks wasbeen, the problem with internal insulation is the coving etc which we’d have to replace (as well as the disruption) but there also seems to be more potential for things to go wrong with condensation.
Whilst sticking a massive tea cost over the building seems superficiality attractive I imagine the walls will always be significantly colder than the desired internal temp so will constantly be drawing heat out of the room whereas with internal insulation would trap it in the room. I have a dread of spending thousands of pounds heating hundreds of tonnes of stone over winter only for spring to arrive just as it reaches optimal temp!

Thank you for preempting the question I forgot to ask, about the optimal thickness of loft insulation, sounds like there’s no point filling the entire void.

Fultonius

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#46 Re: Home warming thread
November 08, 2022, 09:08:28 pm
Whilst sticking a massive tea cost over the building seems superficiality attractive I imagine the walls will always be significantly colder than the desired internal temp so will constantly be drawing heat out of the room whereas with internal insulation would trap it in the room.

I'm either reading this wrong, or there's something been lost in translation along the way...

External insulation will result in a very quick temp transition in the insulation and a slower one through the solid wall. Here's a good graphic:



In fact, it's a long winded but pretty decent overview of how insulation and condensation work:  https://vleweb.ccn.ac.uk/constructionweb/hi4web/condense/print.htm

It seems that, generally, external is easier and less prone to issues. I've heard some good things about this stuff for internalm insulation rendering, as it's porous but stuck on to the walls: https://norfolkrendering.co.uk/diathonite-evolution/179/ (note, I'm not in the trade and can't even remember where I heard about it, might have been a podcast?)

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#47 Re: Home warming thread
November 08, 2022, 09:54:59 pm
I've heard some good things about this stuff for internal insulation rendering, as it's porous but stuck on to the walls: https://norfolkrendering.co.uk/diathonite-evolution/179/ (note, I'm not in the trade and can't even remember where I heard about it, might have been a podcast?)
Only trouble with Diathonite would be getting someone experienced to apply it that wouldn’t bankrupt you in the process. It’s cork based I think and would need lime top coat so bog standard plasterers prob wouldn’t touch it. And ideally you’d take it back to brick first to get maximum thickness.

Probes

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#48 Re: Home warming thread
November 08, 2022, 10:04:42 pm
A previous life in building services design, albeit 10+ years ago, so my knowledge is a little faded now... I would say, external insulation needs to be looked at super closely as there's a risk of the dew point being in the wall, this can cause serious long term damage to the wall, as well as the obvious damp.
Internal insulation we always preferred, and with a vapour barrier you should have no problems. Also over 75mm thick usually creates a large enough differential in temp that the dew point won't be on the surface of the wall.
I can vouch that even as little as 15mm insulation can make a huge difference to a room/house. Our ceilings when we our house were old lime plaster and nothing else, straight under slate roof... burrr, so I boarded through out with between 15&25mm and it transformed the house. U value went from about 4.5 to 1. I'm thinking of doing all upstairs walls (400mm thick stone) in 25mm so going from about 2.0 down to 0.7. At about £18 a sheet, plus plasterboard its a pretty cheap way to do it. Not sure what the cost involved in external insulation is now but I'd hazard a guess the return on outlay will be into 10+ years

Fultonius

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#49 Re: Home warming thread
November 08, 2022, 10:05:37 pm
Sorry, Ali is totally correct - that was not a recommendation, more of a - "look at this cool shit" post...

High end renovations only I guess.

 

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