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The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates (Read 39928 times)

T_B

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#50 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 01:49:08 pm
This is just like Renegade Master. It’s annoying that everyone now cops out right. But I guess it’s become the accepted way of doing it.

andy moles

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#51 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 02:07:34 pm
This is just like Renegade Master. It’s annoying that everyone now cops out right. But I guess it’s become the accepted way of doing it.

I guess it's not unusual for things to be climbed differently to the FA - in fact it's common. It's just that no one much cares if it's not hard / iconic.

Pope B

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#52 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 03:06:38 pm
Rumour has it Sam Mark's has found a kneebar on it  :jaw:

Personally I've always found that bouldering is the cocaine of your climbing drugs, it turns everyone into a massive wanker  :popcorn:

Wellsy

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#53 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 03:11:50 pm
Makes you feel fucking incredible though

spidermonkey09

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#54 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 05:15:37 pm
This is all very amusing  :lol:  Am I missing something here or did everyone else miss the Steve Crow post where he points out, (illustrated by an Insta photo sequence of Andy), that noone has repeated Andy's original sequence that avoids the 'good' hold out right? 
.... Back around everyone.

So AE was just using a shit sequence then?

carlisle slapper

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#55 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 05:37:30 pm
Ned has also done the prow (im amazed how many people forget Ned did the prow the same day) and all used the hold at the top as well so thats all repeaters using it and Andy had already rocked round and changed sides after doing the hard climbing hence the route description stating it, i'd say it hardly changes the character of the climb as much as entirely not climbing the overhanging part. I mean Andy did exactly the same on Arc Royal/ Arc Royearl when he rocked round at the finish and all other repeaters have followed suit with that method of coming fully onto the RHS instead of doing the dyno, My blinkered original dyno was just an attempt to not rock round until the top as the other side is just a 7B i used to warm up on, probably similar to Andys attempt to avoid the good holds on the prow.
Maybe Francos line is a better sequence but its also entirely on the other side of the arete after leaving the no hands ledge at the start.
 I struggle to think of any bouldering example of an arete thats considered the same climb if you climb it on a different side? Even routes like archangel and the Don are pretty obviously using the same holds but feel very different, one has a nice view west, the other east...
If anyone can name me a highball in font where both sides are the same problem i'll happily back off the pedants cap a notch or two.
I mean Accelerator/ polypnee anyone? Pierre, Feuille, Ciseaux/ shifumi? Londinium/ Delivrance? (these two arent even both sides, one uses two aretes and other uses just the right one) Megalith/ Conquistadors? somehow those frenchies manage.

 Nobody i know gets wound up about it, its not like we're sat screaming at the web like the bunker in Downfall, it's a right laugh, its been too long since the Young but not the Young. I was sat watching a video of robbie phillips doing the gruffalo and axel sheffler in hepburn the other night, somehow robbie managed to distinguish between what side of the arete he was on and communicate that in a manner that my simple bouldering brain could say ah nice one, good effort etc.
 

Will Hunt

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#56 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 07:08:56 pm
I struggle to think of any bouldering example of an arete thats considered the same climb if you climb it on a different side?

Tender Homecoming was originally climbed on the right - supposedly easier above a dreadful landing. It is now climbed on the left; most likely harder but above perfect ground.

yetix

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#57 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 07:19:50 pm
What Franco did looks vastly different to what Dan did, what Dan has done is maybe a little different to Andy, but I mean come on, if Franco has climbed the same thing as Dan let alone Andy then maybe I should log Louie Armstrong as it shares the starting and finishing holds with Rocka, need to go do Ben's next, can claim Nacho start to keen roof for that too?

Kingy

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#58 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 07:27:48 pm
Crescent arete is a nice E2 6a on the RHS but HVS 5b on the left...

Will Hunt

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#59 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 08:03:10 pm
What Franco did looks vastly different to what Dan did, what Dan has done is maybe a little different to Andy, but I mean come on, if Franco has climbed the same thing as Dan let alone Andy then maybe I should log Louie Armstrong as it shares the starting and finishing holds with Rocka, need to go do Ben's next, can claim Nacho start to keen roof for that too?

Something I think is important to consider here is that this is not some arse-dragging, dirt-scraping, waste-of-your-life in the Cave or at Demon Wall Roof. It's not even just a boulder problem. It's a highball; the blurred ground between trad and bouldering. A different approach to rules should apply.

I expect what happened was that Franco tried the Varian/Ned right-hand variation and then noticed that there was a better sequence a little to the right. For a climb of that stature why wouldn't you investigate a better sequence?! On things like this we ought to be climbing lines not sequences. If Franco's thing isn't The Prow then The Prow must be an eliminate or, at the very least, escapable/illogical, which is really disappointing.

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#60 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 08:21:56 pm
For a climb of that stature why wouldn't you investigate a better sequence?! On things like this we ought to be climbing lines not sequences.
Do you mean like the arete, as opposed to the wall next to the arete?  :-\

yetix

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#61 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 09:15:06 pm
Standard Will shitting on other people's passions, nice one.

What Franco did is something, and pretty cool, highball too. But regardless of that, it's clearly vastly different from what Andy did, the quality shouldn't come into that, so I'm not sure why you need to shit on the cave, or the tor, or the ways people want to waste their time. The line is different to what he's climbing, that's the point. As Dan and others have said 2 could be climbing the same problem through their cruxes...

remus

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#62 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 09:29:16 pm
Standard Will shitting on other people's passions, nice one.

What Franco did is something, and pretty cool, highball too. But regardless of that, it's clearly vastly different from what Andy did, the quality shouldn't come into that, so I'm not sure why you need to shit on the cave, or the tor, or the ways people want to waste their time. The line is different to what he's climbing, that's the point. As Dan and others have said 2 could be climbing the same problem through their cruxes...

I mean the difference is literally getting a hold with your left or right, then a move left or right. This isn't freerider Vs salathe wall we're talking here.

Bradders

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#63 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 09:50:57 pm
It hugely changes the character of the climb though. Surely that's obvious?

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#64 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 10:01:08 pm
I don't think the difference is literally getting the same hold with your left or right at all. For one thing Franco is climbing a vert wall as opposed to an overhanging prow, which is a huge difference especially when climbing a highball. He also doesn't use 3 of the holds on the established sequence and looks too far right to be able to even reach them. Long move up with LH, go again LH, RH to face then go again RH to good hold Franco gets with LH then matches. This appears to be the crux involving a bunch of tricky and doubtless committing deadpoints.

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#65 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 10:01:22 pm
Standard Will shitting on other people's passions, nice one.

What Franco did is something, and pretty cool, highball too. But regardless of that, it's clearly vastly different from what Andy did, the quality shouldn't come into that, so I'm not sure why you need to shit on the cave, or the tor, or the ways people want to waste their time. The line is different to what he's climbing, that's the point. As Dan and others have said 2 could be climbing the same problem through their cruxes...

I mean the difference is literally getting a hold with your left or right, then a move left or right. This isn't freerider Vs salathe wall we're talking here.

Is it? So you just climb the same line (the prow) on the same holds then take the hold with a different hand then match it? If you do then it's fair game isn't it.

It doesn't look to be at all the case to me though, it looks to start trending on to the more vert wall and away from the prow before getting that hold some moves later and matching It to get back on line. Clarification from someone who has been on it would be helpful.

shurt

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#66 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 10:04:57 pm
Thank fuck Franco has a sense of humour though because if he was as much of a drag as Dan this whole episode would be borderline boring

remus

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#67 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 10:10:26 pm
It hugely changes the character of the climb though. Surely that's obvious?

I guess so. It's disappointing one of the 'big 3' turns out to be a weird eliminate line though. To my mind a line being 'the easiest way up' is a big part of what makes it quality in the first place. I feel like there's enough weird rules in bouldering and adding more makes it less fun. Obviously all quite subjective though, big path round the back etc.

teestub

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#68 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 10:14:25 pm

I guess so. It's disappointing one of the 'big 3' turns out to be a weird eliminate line though. To my mind a line being 'the easiest way up' is a big part of what makes it quality in the first place. I feel like there's enough weird rules in bouldering and adding more makes it less fun. Obviously all quite subjective though, big path round the bag etc.

You might need to refresh yourself of the Franco ‘The Young’ repeat where he started up the severe and then traversed into the top!

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#69 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 10:36:07 pm
I have to disagree with you on this one Remus, it's pretty easy for things to be very different climbing one set of holds to the side (i.e. your left hand where the other sequence would have the right hand). Especially if that takes you onto another angle of rock. If you climbed fire in the rain at anston (albeit I think since hold break it doesn't exist anymore) like that you could probably turn it from 8B+ to 7B or something... It does unfortunately make the original problem contrived, but sometimes that's the way it goes, especially in bouldering...

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#70 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 10:47:05 pm
This is surely it though isn't it. If we're saying Francos thing isn't The Prow (and I can see arguments both ways), then by definition the Prow is contrived and escapable. That's all fine, but if that's the case then it loses some of its lustre.

abarro81

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#71 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 10:59:26 pm
What isn't it?  Not sure I follow.. Sometimes things turn out to be escapable. Yeah, I'd agree it makes them less cool but hey ho, blame God for not making the holds fit the feature perfectly!

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#72 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 11:04:15 pm
I was just following on from the final sentence of your previous post ;sorry, made sense in my head!

Will Hunt

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#73 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 11:39:01 pm
Standard Will shitting on other people's passions, nice one.

What Franco did is something, and pretty cool, highball too. But regardless of that, it's clearly vastly different from what Andy did, the quality shouldn't come into that, so I'm not sure why you need to shit on the cave, or the tor, or the ways people want to waste their time. The line is different to what he's climbing, that's the point. As Dan and others have said 2 could be climbing the same problem through their cruxes...

Jesus Christ, are you serious? Have you read the thread? Franco goes to a crag, does a thing, somebody else reports it on here and what do we get? Dan comes on and calls him a worm, Andy F has his usual dig, and you say I'm the one shitting on other people's passions? Funny that nobody on here has ever, to my knowledge, had a pop at all the people who have done Vicious Streak in recent years by traversing over into Crystal Method and then doing a pointless traverse back along the top of the block so that they can top out in the right place.

Tom Pearce

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#74 Re: The Prow at Kyloe / Eliminates
February 06, 2022, 11:41:16 pm
I had a go on it, around Francos attempts and had a mess about on a gri gri after he’d done it.
It did seem very clear to me that the obvious way up is the way he did it, to climb the original way seemed really contrived. However (and I’m fairly sure I can speak for both of us here) we’re both pretty terrible on that kind of powerful moves. So maybe it just seemed impossible to us.
I agree that the grades of the two sequences are completely different, and if you were grading this as an eliminate boulder problem then they would be two different grades. But if it was graded as a trad route then I’d say it’d have to be downgraded, with the new sequence being used.

 

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