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Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022 (Read 8510 times)

Bradders

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#25 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 01, 2022, 12:30:57 pm
And yes definitely have to warm up! But generally doesn't take me long.
Details please!

In a nutshell, gradually increasing intensity of whatever I'm doing that session, plus scapular shrugs and holds, some pulse raisers, maybe some bodyweight movement stuff. Not too much though, focus is mainly on doing what the session is for, so I'll be on the fingerboard straight away doing hangs to warm up for a fingerboard session.

@SM yes lunch after

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#26 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 01, 2022, 12:41:04 pm
If I’m going to fingerboard during lunchtime while WFH I squeeze the orange one of these (best secret Santa present I’ve ever got) at my desk for about 30-60 minutes beforehand. I then do a few theraband pulls and just get on the BM. All my routines start on the biggest holds on it so I guess that’s part of the warm-up too.

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#27 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 01, 2022, 01:18:48 pm
M - Wall. OK board session followed by remainder of evening working on some steep and quite basic problems on prow. Made good progress inc really hard low start to something I had almost given up on. Generally felt good but also too heavy.
T - Pulls. 2 arm weighted pulls to 5x+24kg, then locks (90 and 120deg) at -12kg, started bicep and hammer curls, but forearms felt a bit sore. Then mini stretch. Want to persevere with this session (inc 1 arm progression and front lever) as I made great progress in late 2020 - just need to not overdo it the evening before.
W - KB press / pushups / lat raise / goblets squats / long stretch
T - Wall. Tried board, but fingers felt a bit stiff / uncomfortable, and didn't really wake up. Ended up doing some steep buggy stuff, then a bit of circuit board. Decent stretching session when I got home.
F - 9km walk
S - Wall. Still not full power. Tried board for a bit and then continued on prow things from Monday. Subpar, but tried really hard and managed to do some stuff ok. 10km black walk pm.
S - Rest

I think I got carried away with too much stuff early in the week and didn't recover. Going to experiment a bit over the next fortnight and see if extra protein might make any difference. Need to add in some endurance and longer boulders too. Have definite sense that, if I can get down to high 80something kg I would get a massive mental boost from unleashing all the strength I've gained and might then appreciate that getting fit would mean I'd be in position to get a lot of my route list ticked this year...

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#28 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 01, 2022, 03:51:48 pm

Fair enough, if that works for you. How do you drop weight and keep energy levels up?  I'm obviously training a bit heavy this winter, which means I'll probably need to drop 2-3kg in the spring. I've never really tried to time some limited weight loss for a trip (if ever I've been heavy I've just done the young guy thing of eating less and training more, but that doesn't seem to work at 38!

I'm guessing you need to just reduce volume a bit and focus more on maintenance rather than gains?  How long over, 2-3 weeks?

Metabolism remains relatively stable from 20 to 60 years old:

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abe5017

Unfortunately that means 38 is no excuse  :tease:

However, I'm also finding my diet harder than in the past at 32! I think it's probably due to moving less.

2-3kg shouldn't be too difficult though and a month would be about the right timeframe to lose it

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#29 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 01, 2022, 07:10:48 pm
My experiences differ to yours then. My best performances have been when I’m about 11 stone or a bit under so weighing in at 11.10 (the most Ive been in recent years around Xmas is 11.12) was a shock especially as I’d thought I’d lost weight on the trip and concerning as it takes me a long time to lose weight and I’m higher than normal for this time of year.

The 11.4-6 range is my target as it is sustainable and allows me drop to my (unsustainable) redpoint weight within a few weeks, for a few weeks.

Since I'm currently wrestling with a similar issue I'll share mine in case it helps. N=1 obviously, and this is also only looking at one metric...

Likely my best period for performance was November - December 2017. At the time I weighed somewhere around 66-68kg. I've climbed at the same level a bunch of times since, whilst weighing up to 74kg, but more normally around 70-72kg. I currently weigh c. 77-78kg.

When I was at that super low weight and climbing really well, my 2-rep max pull up was bodyweight +29kg = c. 96kg or 143% of bodyweight.

I've not been feeling nearly as good with my climbing essentially since the pandemic started, during which my weight went up because I was moving less but also I put on what I would call general muscular bulk; not necessarily functional for climbing but certainly not fat and helpful for general health and resistance to injury.

My 2-rep max pull up is now bodyweight +25kg = 102-3kg or 132% of bodyweight.

The point is that whilst my absolute strength has gone up in terms of the total weight I can lift, my relative strength has gone down. Muscle is heavy and building strength will naturally lead to weight gain, the trick is to ensure that we're able to generate increasing relative strength, more than absolute strength. I think you should therefore worry less about how much you weigh, and more about how strong you are relative to that weight.

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#30 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 01, 2022, 10:16:40 pm
I do that no hangs faddy thing as a warm up then some shrugs. Seems to work for getting fingers ready

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#31 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 02, 2022, 10:09:59 am
Bradders, for the relative strength equation do you think it's easier to lose weight or gain strength?

I think it's much much easier to gain strength. I expect I will be able to get down to around 79kg on my current diet and i'll likely be sub 5% bodyfat going off past experience. That's about 5kg less than my starting point and i'll lose a bit of absolute strength getting there. At that point there's no more weight to lose and if i remain at that weight i'd expect further strength losses, poor recovery and increased likelihood of injury. On the other hand, gaining strength on my max hangs, pullups, etc is not likely to be capped at 5kg.

However, on the basis that strength gains should be better in a slight calorie surplus, I'm planning on getting as light as possible to create a buffer for 6-12 months of weight gain where i'll aim to gain no more than 0.5kg per month. Hopefully it's successful and I come out of it with better relative strength!

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#32 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 02, 2022, 10:37:43 am
Bradders, for the relative strength equation do you think it's easier to lose weight or gain strength?

Depends on who you are, where you're at with your climbing, and whether you're thinking short term or long term... There are really two separate Qs:
1. which is easier/more likely to work short term
2. which is more likely to work long term
For a young person with limited training experience it would undoubtedly be more sensible long term to gain strength, and quite possibly just as "easy" short term. If you've reached the point where you're struggling to make notable strength gains then it's likely to be much easier to lose weight; however, it may be less prudent long-term as you'll limit gains. So take your pick - you wanna maximise your chances of doing 8B now or doing 8B+ in a few years...?

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#33 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 02, 2022, 12:06:46 pm
I guess all this joints points again to there being no universal "correct" approach. I feel that I was limiting strength gains (and picking up regular injuries) through underfuelling (chronic, not "dieting") and that for my long term performance (and the fact I do trad, alpine and winter also) just being a bit overall "stronger" might be a better play, with some specific periods for projects etc. Where I lose a few kg.

We'll see...

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#34 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 02, 2022, 12:16:39 pm
There are a few stages but difficult to pinpoint exactly where you are

1. Obviously too fat
2. Fat enough to optimally fuel and supercompensate from strength training
3. Sustainably thin enough to climb well but compromise strength gainz
4. Unsustainably thin enough to crush
5. Live miserably long term in an unsustainably thin state but still crush
6. Seek medical help and bravely post on Instagram about your struggle so others can learn whilst it being obvious you kicked ass whilst thin

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#35 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 02, 2022, 03:57:32 pm
End-of-year goals:         
Onsight/flash 5 F7as         
Boulder Fb7A+
AIM: 71kg 12% bodyfat         
         
January goals:         
Build foundations and training capacity   - I am going to count this achieved      
         
Somewhat on topic of the above I've dropped to 72.1kg but my scales still say I am 15% fat (down from 72.3kg and 15.4% last week). Ideally I would like to add muscle in shoulders (for injury prevention) and arms (because gunz) but then drop weight to 71kg at a lower bodyfat. In the past I found it easyish to add muscle and easy to drop fat but seems harder now I am approaching 40. I'll see how it goes with regular gym.

M: 2 sets 10 full body workout, 3 sets shoulders. Good considering I squeezed it into a work schedule.

Tu: 6:4 repeaters x 3 sets, bodyweight + 2.5kg. This is the best I've ever done at repeaters. Thin & fat pinches 14kg x 10 sec x 2 each side.

Wed: Rest

Thu: Aerocap 3x3s. 4 sets of triple routes, hardest 6b+. Did better this week at keeping in the aerobic zone but still got too pumped towards the end and had to end on double 6a+. 14 routes total.

Fri: Rest

Sat: Hard bouldering and density hangs 30 sec x 3. I must do these with a pulley in future as hard to gauge how much assistance I am giving with a toe on the wall. First time I have done harder bouldering for a while. Best was a V5/6 circuit problem 3rd go, flashed it after the 2nd move. Fingers feeling stronger.

Also went swimming in the filthiest community pool I have ever been in. My 4yr old son loved it though  ;D

Sun: Family walk




Bradders

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#36 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 02, 2022, 10:15:40 pm
Bradders, for the relative strength equation do you think it's easier to lose weight or gain strength?

As Alex said, it depends on the individual.

For me I've always found manipulating my weight next to impossible. When I was really light it had nothing to do with any conscious strategy or approach on my part, it just happened! And I also know that I'm relatively weak in a few areas, so focusing on strength is an easy choice to make.

I do think this list is quite an old fashioned way of looking at it. The focus is on fat, when it should be on muscle, and your ability to move the weight you have.

There are a few stages but difficult to pinpoint exactly where you are

1. Obviously too fat
2. Fat enough to optimally fuel and supercompensate from strength training
3. Sustainably thin enough to climb well but compromise strength gainz
4. Unsustainably thin enough to crush
5. Live miserably long term in an unsustainably thin state but still crush
6. Seek medical help and bravely post on Instagram about your struggle so others can learn whilst it being obvious you kicked ass whilst thin

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#37 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 02, 2022, 11:34:47 pm
Must strive to be more on message

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#38 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 09:48:15 am
I can’t really remember what I did last week. I think it was a bit crap for climbing - had a few evenings out having drinks/dinner and then went to a Friends for the weekend (inc. an afternoon floating in bubbles at the Spa!).

I think the only climbing I did was a home assessment for a mini training plan before our trip in April.

Max hangs (2 hands) on a 27mm campus rung - last successful attempt was +45kg (63% BW).

Max weighted pull-ups (2 reps) - last successful attempt was +25kg (35% BW)

Lactate Curve Testing (this was bad!). Did this with 60% of max hang total weight (ended up -1.75kg) doing 7:3 repeaters for as long as possible, rest for same length of last rep length. Results were:

143s
60s
34s
23s
Fail

Didn’t managed to pull onto the 5th (of what should be 8) rep.

Got my results through and needless to say, I need to work on my Aerobic Capacity. I’ve got about 9 weeks before we head off so hopefully I can make some good gains over this period. Aim is to increase max hang weight a bit too, and same for pull ups.

Session plans are now:

Two sessions of:

1) Warm up
2) 85% max hangs
3) Normal board session
4) 1 on 1 off - building to 2 on 1 off.
5) Weighted Pull ups

Then some density hangs and v.light aerobic work separate to this.

My aim for the plan was to allow it to fit around a normal board session, not be too boring, and nothing super structured as I just wouldn’t do it otherwise. This seems like a nice setup/compromise. Did the first trial of it yesterday which went well.

As a complete aside, my partner managed 82% BW on some 1-arm hangs yesterday (27mm campus rung - so bigger than normal testing size). She’d like to get up some 7a’s on our trip. I’m assuming this should be more than strong enough - just that she needs to be able work on her (far worse than mine) aerobic capacity more?

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#39 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 09:56:49 am
As a complete aside, my partner managed 82% BW on some 1-arm hangs yesterday (27mm campus rung - so bigger than normal testing size). She’d like to get up some 7a’s on our trip. I’m assuming this should be more than strong enough - just that she needs to be able work on her (far worse than mine) aerobic capacity more?

82% bodyweight one arm hang is probably enough finger strength to climb font 8A let alone sport 7a.

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#40 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 10:00:11 am
Quote
Session plans are now:

Two sessions of:

1) Warm up
2) 85% max hangs
3) Normal board session
4) 1 on 1 off - building to 2 on 1 off.
5) Weighted Pull ups

I presume number 4 here is circuits, 1 minute on 1 minute off?

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#41 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 10:24:02 am
I’ve done loads of sport 7as (but not many harder) and I don’t think I’ve ever been able to hang that much off one arm.

Looking back to the last one I climbed I could lock off 75% BW using one of those gym machines where you’re pulling down on a cable attached to a pulley. That’s using a juggy handle rather than an edge obviously.

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#42 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 10:28:08 am
Quote
Session plans are now:

Two sessions of:

1) Warm up
2) 85% max hangs
3) Normal board session
4) 1 on 1 off - building to 2 on 1 off.
5) Weighted Pull ups

I presume number 4 here is circuits, 1 minute on 1 minute off?

Yeah that’s right. Doing in on our 25 degree board. Currently just using a mix of holds - randomly moving around at the moment. Did 7 repeats of it yesterday and I as close to failing on the 7th. So maybe a little hard but think I could battle through until the 9th at this kind of level.

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#43 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 10:33:11 am
Quote
Session plans are now:

Two sessions of:

1) Warm up
2) 85% max hangs
3) Normal board session
4) 1 on 1 off - building to 2 on 1 off.
5) Weighted Pull ups

I presume number 4 here is circuits, 1 minute on 1 minute off?

Yeah that’s right. Doing in on our 25 degree board. Currently just using a mix of holds - randomly moving around at the moment. Did 7 repeats of it yesterday and I as close to failing on the 7th. So maybe a little hard but think I could battle through until the 9th at this kind of level.

Obviously I am not a training guru by any stretch, but I'd be thinking of doing the weighted pullups at the start of the session rather than right at the end? Thought so re the circuits; when I did aerocap I used to do 1on, 1 off x10, so 20 mins total, at the enbd of a session and normally use the 6a circuit on the Depot board. I didn't ever get above about 4/10 pumped; I;d have thought if you're failing on aerocap you're moving into aeropow a bit? Will still be doing you good though obviously!

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#44 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 11:11:55 am
Quote
Session plans are now:

Two sessions of:

1) Warm up
2) 85% max hangs
3) Normal board session
4) 1 on 1 off - building to 2 on 1 off.
5) Weighted Pull ups

I presume number 4 here is circuits, 1 minute on 1 minute off?

Yeah that’s right. Doing in on our 25 degree board. Currently just using a mix of holds - randomly moving around at the moment. Did 7 repeats of it yesterday and I as close to failing on the 7th. So maybe a little hard but think I could battle through until the 9th at this kind of level.

Obviously I am not a training guru by any stretch, but I'd be thinking of doing the weighted pullups at the start of the session rather than right at the end? Thought so re the circuits; when I did aerocap I used to do 1on, 1 off x10, so 20 mins total, at the enbd of a session and normally use the 6a circuit on the Depot board. I didn't ever get above about 4/10 pumped; I;d have thought if you're failing on aerocap you're moving into aeropow a bit? Will still be doing you good though obviously!

Cheque/Liam - that’s good to know, thanks! With a bit of work on endurance I’m sure she’ll be getting her fair share of 7a’s then!

The pull ups aren’t that bad really (only 3x5 below max) so they seem okay at the end. But will see how it feels Mixing them up.

And yeah I think the circuits are probably a bit hard. Way harder than the depot 6a - I don’t think I’d really recover on any of the holds at the moment. I’d say it’s more like climbing a depot board 6c circuit level.

Though it’s hard to get the level down much below that without a load of new bigger holds, or going a lot slower. I’d say when I got to the last rep (#7 - going to up it to 10 next time) I was about 6 or 7/10 pumped. Possibly into the power range as you say…

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#45 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 11:37:48 am
Just step off, or put a foot on the ground for a bit. You can (CAN, but it's dull as fuck) do a decent aerocap routine on a fingerboard standing o the ground. I've done it on my 30* board standing on the ground and just working around various holds.

Sounds like you could bring your overall circuit difficulty down using the same holds just by the above ^^

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#46 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 11:45:02 am
Fun level seems much reduced though, which I think might be a main point of the training regime!

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#47 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 11:50:07 am
I’d say when I got to the last rep (#7 - going to up it to 10 next time) I was about 6 or 7/10 pumped. Possibly into the power range as you say…

6/10 pumped is quite a long way from failure, at least according to my scale. It sounds about right for this 1on 1off style of training, which should feel more intense. Depends on the calibration of your scale I guess?

Bear in mind that the crimpd advice for this session is "At the end of all 10 reps you should be tired, pumped and find it challenging to finish the final minute of climbing."

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#48 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 11:53:58 am
p.s judging the aerocap intensity seems to be the thing that people most consistently get wrong with endurance training.

My rule of thumb for aerocap training is that you shouldn't fail, but by the end of the workout you should really want (not need) to stop - i.e you could probably bust out one or two more sets, but you really don't want to.

This kind of works for all types of aerobic workouts, be it the more intense, shorter intervals you are doing to the "10 minutes on the wall" snooze-fests.

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#49 Re: Power Club 619 24 - 30 Jan 2022
February 03, 2022, 12:11:30 pm
Just step off, or put a foot on the ground for a bit. You can (CAN, but it's dull as fuck) do a decent aerocap routine on a fingerboard standing o the ground. I've done it on my 30* board standing on the ground and just working around various holds.

Sounds like you could bring your overall circuit difficulty down using the same holds just by the above ^^

I have this session 1/2 times a week ontop of the others. Just 10-15 mins doing that. But it’s a good option for when/if the circuits are too hard as well, thanks.

 

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