[Will Hunt]

You can't be in office to change shit, that will simply not be allowed, that's how we got to where we are.

Just an FYI, Brutus. If you're saying the above, and you're saying that welcoming ex-Tory members/voters isn't the plan, then you're not actually advocating for democratic socialism, you're pursuing revolutionary socialism. If that's what you believe in then fine but don't confuse or conflate the two.

[andy popp]

As an aside, I wonder if any party has ever turned away a potential defector to their ranks? Mosley was elected as an MP for both Labour and Conservatives, as well as serving as an independent. Powell served as a Conservative and an Ulster Unionist, and endorsed Labour in 1974.*

* so far as I'm aware, neither Mosley nor Powell defected whilst actually sitting as MPs. 

[seankenny]

Well chuffed to see that this thread name got changed from "Boris" to "Johnson". I find it very strange when otherwise sensible people use Johnson's first name alone. You're not his fucking mate, it's not his name, it's just a brand who's key aim is suckering you.

Or as Chris Dillow puts it:
"Like attracts like. Affinity frauds are good business, because it’s easier to win the trust of people who think you are one of them. Bernie Madoff, for example, sold his Ponzi scheme to people like himself - affluent, respectable-looking Jews.

"Similarly, Ms Holmes appealed to the rich because she was from a “good family”. One investor “says he thought Holmes would come by medical talent naturally because her grandparents had their name on a hospital.”

"Hence the power of the “Boris” brand. Calling him by his first name creates an impression that he’s your mate. And you trust your mates, don’t you?"

https://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2022/01/how-to-commit-fraud.html

[BrutusTheBear]

You can't be in office to change shit, that will simply not be allowed, that's how we got to where we are.

Just an FYI, Brutus. If you're saying the above, and you're saying that welcoming ex-Tory members/voters isn't the plan, then you're not actually advocating for democratic socialism, you're pursuing revolutionary socialism. If that's what you believe in then fine but don't confuse or conflate the two.

  I'll try to explain.

The Labour Party is a social democratic party (it says so on the tin, well the membership card at least).  Existing members have been and are being suspended and expelled from the party by the current administration for previous political affiliations or as in the example I gave for liking posts on SM from different political parties.

Welcoming or not welcoming a Conservative (or former Conservative) into the Labour Party has nothing to do with advocating for one type of socialism or another.  It just seems hypocritical to me when you're also engaged in the above suspensions/expulsions.

You drew your own conclusions about what I'm advocating for.  I am however pointing out that the odds in the form of our political, media and business establishment are heavily stacked against socialism of any form.

'Just an FYI' as an opener.. felt a little condescending from where I'm sitting.

Noone mentioned communism TT

[teestub]

You're not his fucking mate, it's not his name, it's just a brand who's key aim is suckering you.

I mean Alexander Boris De piffel or whatever it is, is a bit long winded to type out, and Boris distinguished him from the other Johnsons in the house.

If the first name thing really is a Machiavellian scheme, it seems to be failing.

[seankenny]

If the first name thing really is a Machiavellian scheme, it seems to be failing.

Bernie Madoff going to prison and lots of people losing money due to Madoff are not incompatible states of affairs. Just because the scam eventually stops doesn't mean it wasn't successful for a while... After twenty years of "Boris" in public life and his achievement of a hard Brexit that will damage the UK for a generation, I'm not sure calling him a "failure" quite captures how bad his rise has been for us.

I am however pointing out that the odds in the form of our political, media and business establishment are heavily stacked against socialism of any form.

Many Corbynites including the man himself had been in Parliament a long time and were the product of public schools, making them about as establishment as it's possible to be. They are also crap at politics, crap at communication and crap at persausion. Yet I've seen no attempt at honest self-assessement amongst the far left. Real socialists might try this instead of a "stab in the back" story.

[teestub]

Just because the scam eventually stops doesn't mean it wasn't successful for a while... After twenty years of "Boris" in public life and his achievement of a hard Brexit that will damage the UK for a generation, I'm not sure calling him a "failure" quite captures how bad his rise has been for us.

This suggests that A N Other of the conservative hopefuls of the time in charge would had lead to a softer Brexit. ‘Boris’s’ hands seemed to pretty tied for him on that front, do you think the case is otherwise? Sunlit uplands under Gove perhaps?

[BrutusTheBear]

If the first name thing really is a Machiavellian scheme, it seems to be failing.

Bernie Madoff going to prison and lots of people losing money due to Madoff are not incompatible states of affairs. Just because the scam eventually stops doesn't mean it wasn't successful for a while... After twenty years of "Boris" in public life and his achievement of a hard Brexit that will damage the UK for a generation, I'm not sure calling him a "failure" quite captures how bad his rise has been for us.

I am however pointing out that the odds in the form of our political, media and business establishment are heavily stacked against socialism of any form.

Many Corbynites including the man himself had been in Parliament a long time and were the product of public schools, making them about as establishment as it's possible to be. They are also crap at politics, crap at communication and crap at persausion. Yet I've seen no attempt at honest self-assessement amongst the far left. Real socialists might try this instead of a "stab in the back" story.

. Never mentioned Corbyn either. Blairites are also crap at politics.

[Johnny Brown]

What, like achieving a landslide general election victory and being in power for thirteen years? We all wish Corbyn had been that kind of crap.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Well chuffed to see that this thread name got changed from "Boris" to "Johnson". I find it very strange when otherwise sensible people use Johnson's first name alone..  it's just a brand who's key aim is suckering you.

It may be for you I associate it with something else.

Boris - I associate it with very little attention at all. I don't want to qualify that with the words "worthy of".

[BrutusTheBear]

If it turnes out I were to have said say something like 'Labour bunch of cunts' not so long ago, would I be allowed in the party? (Asking for a friend cough.... Christian....  cough..... Wakeford). Like I said a joke. 

[BrutusTheBear]

What, like achieving a landslide general election victory and being in power for thirteen years? We all wish Corbyn had been that kind of crap.

. More thinking of the having it all and throwing it away through sleaze, PFIs, corruption and illegal wars based on made up intelligence kind of consequential crapness.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

And now he's using the bloody beaches again.. well, not exactly, but you know what I mean.

From the Twitter feed 11 hours ago:

"I’m delighted that Her Majesty The Queen has given permission for a special medal be awarded to all those who deployed to Kabul in August last year, honouring the heroism of those who carried out the biggest emergency evacuation for decades and rescuing 15,000 people."

What about everyone who died here, that he's demonstrating total disregard towards?

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Dictionary
Search for a word
johnson
/ˈdʒɒns(ə)n/
nounVULGAR SLANG•US
a man's penis.

I didn't know that! 

[joel182]

I absolutely detest that our terrible political and electoral system means letting a 2019 Tory with a gross record of votes defect to the Labour party is probably, electorally and pragmatically, the right decision.

[Oldmanmatt]

And now he's using the bloody beaches again.. well, not exactly, but you know what I mean.

From the Twitter feed 11 hours ago:

"I’m delighted that Her Majesty The Queen has given permission for a special medal be awarded to all those who deployed to Kabul in August last year, honouring the heroism of those who carried out the biggest emergency evacuation for decades and rescuing 15,000 people."

What about everyone who died here, that he's demonstrating total disregard towards?

It’s got f##% all to do with Johnson and dealing with and knowing many of the men and women on that f###ing awful operation, they deserve the recognition. Did you mean to dis them too, or just the buffoon who was elected to be their boss?

[BrutusTheBear]

Dictionary
Search for a word
johnson
/ˈdʒɒns(ə)n/
nounVULGAR SLANG•US
a man's penis.

I didn't know that! 

Seems appropriate. It's an American term, that's where Johnson was born. 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

And now he's using the bloody beaches again.. well, not exactly, but you know what I mean.

From the Twitter feed 11 hours ago:

"I’m delighted that Her Majesty The Queen has given permission for a special medal be awarded to all those who deployed to Kabul in August last year, honouring the heroism of those who carried out the biggest emergency evacuation for decades and rescuing 15,000 people."

What about everyone who died here, that he's demonstrating total disregard towards?

It’s got f##% all to do with Johnson and dealing with and knowing many of the men and women on that f###ing awful operation, they deserve the recognition. Did you mean to dis them too, or just the buffoon who was elected to be their boss?

That he was using them (to serve his own ends), was the point Matt.

[TobyD]

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1483782129968422913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1483782129968422913%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=file%3A%2F%2F%2Fdata%2Fdata%2Fcom.guardian%2Ffiles%2Fpolitics%2F2022%2Fjan%2F19%2Fboris-johnson-grilled-by-line-of-duty-team-in-spoof-video-viewed-by-5-million

I imagine everyone has already watched this,  but if not... it is quite funny. 

[mrjonathanr]

I didn’t find it funny. Too close to the sad truth for me.

This did amuse me though:
https://twitter.com/StevieH1303/status/1483868286299394054

[TobyD]

You can see how Cummings is so monumentally bitter and twisted at being chucked out eventually after Barnard Castle when his boss and his wife were having parties with their interior decorator and friends every week. 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

"Job offers gratefully accepted"..

you've got competition Toby..

Well, we hope you do.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Boris in the Commons yesterday:

"The pandemic has been hard on every one.. of them".

[TobyD]

"Job offers gratefully accepted"..

you've got competition Toby..

Well, we hope you do.

?

[Teaboy]

You can see how Cummings is so monumentally bitter and twisted at being chucked out eventually after Barnard Castle when his boss and his wife were having parties with their interior decorator and friends every week.

He wasn’t, he left /was thrown out because he’s a vain, venal cunt working with and for a bunch of other vain, venal cunts and they inevitably started fighting like rats in a sack. He’s no reason to feel aggrieved and much as I am enjoying his contributions to Johnson’s downfall he still is and always will be a complete cunt. As will May and any other Tory who has now decided to give Johnson a kicking. Let’s not rewrite history, your enemy’s enemy is not your friend, in this case they are an unflushable turd scared for their jobs.