[DAVETHOMAS90]

 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I'm sure that someone will jump in and argue that we should be balanced and moderated in whatever we say..

On a related theme, before my Granny died, should took great delight in describing how she'd cut out pictures of Tony Blair, and cut them up when she wanted to feel a bit better

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I thought this was a pretty good one too 

https://youtube.com/shorts/tOaDAkUe-xo?feature=share

Those masks are creepy.

[TobyD]

The "noone told me it was against the rules" whimpering is beyond pathetic. I'd say that's balanced.

[northern yob]

He’s a C&@T how’s that for balanced?

It makes me feel embarrassed to be British.

[tommytwotone]

One could probably read a lot into the fact that he's only decided to start wearing a mask at the point where he'd probably prefer to metaphorically as well as literally hide his face.

FWIW, I think if he can get to the output of the Sue Gray report he may survive this.

It will doubtless conclude that while the parties were ill-advised, they weren't a breach of law, as no.10 is part of the Crown Estate, which is exempt. That alone may be enough for him to get through it, and then we'll have a succession of "we've drawn a line under this etc etc".

Any potential successor has a tricky call to make, as their authority will be de facto questionable due to being unelected by the plebiscite, and calling an election at the moment would be political suicide give the polls / general feeling on the ground. Also, who wants to pick up the piece from BoJo's reign, and deal with the upcoming financial mess of inflation, rising energy prices etc.

In a way, nobody really wants to be the Big Sam of this situation - they want someone else to step in and do that bit, so they can be the "guy after the next guy" who starts with a clean slate.

[battery]

The "noone told me it was against the rules" whimpering is beyond pathetic. I'd say that's balanced.

I'm sorry officer, noone told me it was against the rules to reverse up the motorway...

Look judge, no one told me it was against the rules to just walk into that shop and take what I wanted....

Ignorance is not a submissible defence in court, wonder if it will be enough for Sue Gray.

[teestub]

FWIW, I think if he can get to the output of the Sue Gray report he may survive this.

It will doubtless conclude that while the parties were ill-advised, they weren't a breach of law, as no.10 is part of the Crown Estate, which is exempt. That alone may be enough for him to get through it, and then we'll have a succession of "we've drawn a line under this etc etc".

Although I guess this would literally play into the ‘one rule for us’ narrative, and maybe make people even more angry? Was also reading the other day that Sue Gray essentially works for the PM, so wouldn’t be able to comment on his behaviour, not sure if this is correct.

[SA Chris]

Any potential successor has a tricky call to make, as their authority will be de facto questionable due to being unelected by the plebiscite, and calling an election at the moment would be political suicide give the polls / general feeling on the ground. Also, who wants to pick up the piece from BoJo's reign, and deal with the upcoming financial mess of inflation, rising energy prices etc.

In a way, nobody really wants to be the Big Sam of this situation - they want someone else to step in and do that bit, so they can be the "guy after the next guy" who starts with a clean slate.

I bet there will still be no shortage of power hungry Tories desperate to have a crack though.

[TobyD]

Any potential successor has a tricky call to make, as their authority will be de facto questionable due to being unelected by the plebiscite, and calling an election at the moment would be political suicide give the polls / general feeling on the ground. Also, who wants to pick up the piece from BoJo's reign, and deal with the upcoming financial mess of inflation, rising energy prices etc.

In a way, nobody really wants to be the Big Sam of this situation - they want someone else to step in and do that bit, so they can be the "guy after the next guy" who starts with a clean slate.

I bet there will still be no shortage of power hungry Tories desperate to have a crack though.

Undoubtedly, apparently there are about ten who are considering it.
The only people who will depose the PM are Conservative MPs, Sue Gray's report is a red herring, she can, as far as I understand, criticise the PM, but he gets to decide how much of the report is released and what action is taken because of it.
Much as I think the country would be better without Boris Johnson as PM, I'm not sure that Liz Truss would be any better, in fact possibly worse. Probably more likely to lose an election though.

[dr_botnik]

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2022/01/19/remember-that-the-tories-are-only-getting-rid-of-johnson-to-make-things-worse/

A depressing reminder that, it doesn't matter who replaces Boris, it will still be the right wing of the tory party wielding power

[Will Hunt]

FWIW, I think if he can get to the output of the Sue Gray report he may survive this.

I don't know. To me it feels like a mistake to have pushed everything down the road until the report is complete. There was an option to come entirely clean, take the flak, apologise profusely, and then do the old "we've drawn a line under it" thing. The press could have kept jabbing at him to resign and it would have become boring quickly - media organisations can't keep pumping out boring coverage.

By deferring everything to Sue Gray's report you just keep the story at the top of the bulletins for longer as the dirt drips out gradually and the lies build then unravel very publically. Watching this happen and seeing the faithful squirm and perform mental gymnastics to try and excuse the inexcusable is VERY entertaining (I've enjoyed it immensely) and the media can keep on pushing it out. Meanwhile, it doesn't matter what Sue Gray's report says because the court of public opinion has already made up its mind and the damage has been done.

I can't remember what programme it was on but there was one delicious blunder made when the lady being interrogated said that we must wait until the investigation concludes because "the law applies to everyone" (i.e. everyone has a right to a trial), cue the panel seizing that and saying "so if lockdown rules were broken then he'll resign". The resultant spluttering and changing of the subject was orgasmic - absolutely humiliating.

Personally I'm not looking forward to the Sue Gray report because it'll signal the beginning of the end of such a rich vein of pleasure.

[joel182]

The Gray report will most likely be rather boring and spun as a defence of BoJo because, as David Allen Green writes in his article on the topic:

Gray cannot make a determination as to whether there is criminal liability, as she is not a court.

Gray cannot make an independent assessment of the application of non-legal guidance to her colleagues as she is not independent – and some of those being investigated are more senior in the civil service than she is.

Gray cannot compel testimony and documents – or even full disclosure – from any of those involved.

And Gray cannot determine whether the prime minister or another minister is in breach of the ministerial code, as she is not the prime minister.

[Rocksteady]

An interesting opinion from The Conversation on how the report could be used by the party to get rid of BoJo who governs only while he has popular support.
https://theconversation.com/boris-johnson-sue-grays-report-may-prove-the-final-straw-for-angry-conservative-mps-175098

[ali k]

Breaking news: Tory MP defects to Labour. Should be an interesting PMQs 

[spidermonkey09]

Breaking news: Tory MP defects to Labour. Should be an interesting PMQs 

almost my local MP...but not quite (mine is Bury North)! My wait to live in a labour constituency goes on...

[andy popp]

There's blood in the water now ...

[edshakey]

David Davis took me by surprise. Quite the end to the session.

Intrigued to see what this adds to the fallout.

[BrutusTheBear]

Breaking news: Tory MP defects to Labour. Should be an interesting PMQs 

  Well this act sums up the state of our democracy.  Is this about his conscience and ideals?  Has he become a socialist overnight?  (The Labour Party is a Democratic Socialist Party!)

His majority is very small, his voting record is very 'Tory', he has stated that refugees 'had a shopping trolley as to what they want in this economic migration'.  He is welcomed with with open arms into the Labour Party whilst it's members have been suspended for liking Green Party posts on social media.  What f**kin joke.

[spidermonkey09]

Breaking news: Tory MP defects to Labour. Should be an interesting PMQs 

  Well this act sums up the state of our democracy.  Is this about his conscience and ideals?  Has he become a socialist overnight?  (The Labour Party is a Democratic Socialist Party!)

His majority is very small, his voting record is very 'Tory', he has stated that refugees 'had a shopping trolley as to what they want in this economic migration'.  He is welcomed with with open arms into the Labour Party whilst it's members have been suspended for liking Green Party posts on social media.  What f**kin joke.

Brutus, I think Michael Walker from Novara is right : 'its a cue to Tory 2019 voters that its not unnatural to move from Tory to Labour and that Labour don't hate them.'

Given Labour need those voters to vote for them, it would be utter madness to look this gift horse in the mouth.

[BrutusTheBear]

Breaking news: Tory MP defects to Labour. Should be an interesting PMQs 

  Well this act sums up the state of our democracy.  Is this about his conscience and ideals?  Has he become a socialist overnight?  (The Labour Party is a Democratic Socialist Party!)

His majority is very small, his voting record is very 'Tory', he has stated that refugees 'had a shopping trolley as to what they want in this economic migration'.  He is welcomed with with open arms into the Labour Party whilst it's members have been suspended for liking Green Party posts on social media.  What f**kin joke.

Brutus, I think Michael Walker from Novara is right : 'its a cue to Tory 2019 voters that its not unnatural to move from Tory to Labour and that Labour don't hate them.'

Given Labour need those voters to vote for them, it would be utter madness to look this gift horse in the mouth.

  Doesn't prevent it from being a f**kin joke though.  The fact that we accept that this is 'just the way politics is done' is a big part of the problem.  If it's voter apathy we are after this is the exact way to go about it.

[teestub]

Don’t looks this gift MP in the mouth! Labour are not going to be able to change the way the game is played from the opposition benches, so any social democrat paradise will require some nose holding to get there.

[spidermonkey09]

Doesn't prevent it from being a f**kin joke though.  The fact that we accept that this is 'just the way politics is done' is a big part of the problem.  If it's voter apathy we are after this is the exact way to go about it.

Fine, but we still have to deal with things as they are, not as we wish them to be. You can't change shit without being in office.

Do you honestly think either a) refusing to accept Wakeford on the grounds that he has previously voted in line with the Tory whip or b) accepting him, then immediately double crossing him and putting a different candidate into a by election would be a vote winner? What would your strategy be? I'm genuinely asking as Labour have to show the gen pop that previous Tory voters are welcome and putting Wakeford in the stocks hardly does that.

[BrutusTheBear]

You can't be in office to change shit, that will simply not be allowed, that's how we got to where we are.  Why on earth would the MSM sit on these revelations for a year or more?  They had to wait until the 'opposition' was suitable.

'Social democrat paradise' will not be happening you'll be holding your nose forever...

‘One result of the 2017 earthquake was that a number of ordinary people like myself were unexpectedly carried into Parliament on the back of the anti-establishment feeling that was rocking the country. As a result, we were inducted at least in part into the secrets of the temple, we got to see the Belly of the Beast, so to speak. I learned that what we have seen this week is not a bug but a feature of a system whose normal functioning is designed to preserve and protect power.

When I turned up at Portcullis House in Westminster the week after the election, I had barely been to London before, and I was entering Parliament for the very first time in my life—but as a newly-elected MP, representing my home towns. Walking around the huge and imposing Palace of Westminster, I found myself feeling like I had been enrolled at Hogwarts.

Imposter syndrome does not come close to how I felt that day. The language, the arrogance, the accents and obvious wealth oozed out of the walls. Elected into Parliament with my very average grades from my very humble background, I honestly thought that I was going to be surrounded by the brightest minds and political operators in the country—and for a while I was worried I’d be out of my depth.

I assumed that these people were more knowledgeable than me, and that I would be shown up for being the average-achieving poor girl that I always had been. On one of my first days a Tory MP with incredible shampoo-advert hair bounced over to me and laughed hysterically like a hyena because I had chewing gum in my mouth. Snobbery, pure and simple.

After about a week, I realised the place is full to the brim of entitled idiots with little-to-no concept of the real world that they are supposed to represent. They lack life experience. It is a game to many of them, and one they are rigging. It is simply not fit for purpose as the instrument of democratic governance for our country.’

The Whole Ruling Class Has to Go, by Laura Smith

Sorry folks I dragged this    .

Boris is an unimaginable cvnt of the highest order..  As you were.

[tommytwotone]

'Social democrat paradise' will not be happening you'll be holding your nose forever...

To (mis) quote Marina Hyde in her column the other week, that's the problem with communism though, that is has to be done *properly*...

[Will Hunt]

You can't be in office to change shit, that will simply not be allowed, that's how we got to where we are.

Just an FYI, Brutus. If you're saying the above, and you're saying that welcoming ex-Tory members/voters isn't the plan, then you're not actually advocating for democratic socialism, you're pursuing revolutionary socialism. If that's what you believe in then fine but don't confuse or conflate the two.

[andy popp]

As an aside, I wonder if any party has ever turned away a potential defector to their ranks? Mosley was elected as an MP for both Labour and Conservatives, as well as serving as an independent. Powell served as a Conservative and an Ulster Unionist, and endorsed Labour in 1974.*

* so far as I'm aware, neither Mosley nor Powell defected whilst actually sitting as MPs. 

[seankenny]

Well chuffed to see that this thread name got changed from "Boris" to "Johnson". I find it very strange when otherwise sensible people use Johnson's first name alone. You're not his fucking mate, it's not his name, it's just a brand who's key aim is suckering you.

Or as Chris Dillow puts it:
"Like attracts like. Affinity frauds are good business, because it’s easier to win the trust of people who think you are one of them. Bernie Madoff, for example, sold his Ponzi scheme to people like himself - affluent, respectable-looking Jews.

"Similarly, Ms Holmes appealed to the rich because she was from a “good family”. One investor “says he thought Holmes would come by medical talent naturally because her grandparents had their name on a hospital.”

"Hence the power of the “Boris” brand. Calling him by his first name creates an impression that he’s your mate. And you trust your mates, don’t you?"

https://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2022/01/how-to-commit-fraud.html

[BrutusTheBear]

You can't be in office to change shit, that will simply not be allowed, that's how we got to where we are.

Just an FYI, Brutus. If you're saying the above, and you're saying that welcoming ex-Tory members/voters isn't the plan, then you're not actually advocating for democratic socialism, you're pursuing revolutionary socialism. If that's what you believe in then fine but don't confuse or conflate the two.

  I'll try to explain.

The Labour Party is a social democratic party (it says so on the tin, well the membership card at least).  Existing members have been and are being suspended and expelled from the party by the current administration for previous political affiliations or as in the example I gave for liking posts on SM from different political parties.

Welcoming or not welcoming a Conservative (or former Conservative) into the Labour Party has nothing to do with advocating for one type of socialism or another.  It just seems hypocritical to me when you're also engaged in the above suspensions/expulsions.

You drew your own conclusions about what I'm advocating for.  I am however pointing out that the odds in the form of our political, media and business establishment are heavily stacked against socialism of any form.

'Just an FYI' as an opener.. felt a little condescending from where I'm sitting.

Noone mentioned communism TT

[teestub]

You're not his fucking mate, it's not his name, it's just a brand who's key aim is suckering you.

I mean Alexander Boris De piffel or whatever it is, is a bit long winded to type out, and Boris distinguished him from the other Johnsons in the house.

If the first name thing really is a Machiavellian scheme, it seems to be failing.

[seankenny]

If the first name thing really is a Machiavellian scheme, it seems to be failing.

Bernie Madoff going to prison and lots of people losing money due to Madoff are not incompatible states of affairs. Just because the scam eventually stops doesn't mean it wasn't successful for a while... After twenty years of "Boris" in public life and his achievement of a hard Brexit that will damage the UK for a generation, I'm not sure calling him a "failure" quite captures how bad his rise has been for us.

I am however pointing out that the odds in the form of our political, media and business establishment are heavily stacked against socialism of any form.

Many Corbynites including the man himself had been in Parliament a long time and were the product of public schools, making them about as establishment as it's possible to be. They are also crap at politics, crap at communication and crap at persausion. Yet I've seen no attempt at honest self-assessement amongst the far left. Real socialists might try this instead of a "stab in the back" story.

[teestub]

Just because the scam eventually stops doesn't mean it wasn't successful for a while... After twenty years of "Boris" in public life and his achievement of a hard Brexit that will damage the UK for a generation, I'm not sure calling him a "failure" quite captures how bad his rise has been for us.

This suggests that A N Other of the conservative hopefuls of the time in charge would had lead to a softer Brexit. ‘Boris’s’ hands seemed to pretty tied for him on that front, do you think the case is otherwise? Sunlit uplands under Gove perhaps?

[BrutusTheBear]

If the first name thing really is a Machiavellian scheme, it seems to be failing.

Bernie Madoff going to prison and lots of people losing money due to Madoff are not incompatible states of affairs. Just because the scam eventually stops doesn't mean it wasn't successful for a while... After twenty years of "Boris" in public life and his achievement of a hard Brexit that will damage the UK for a generation, I'm not sure calling him a "failure" quite captures how bad his rise has been for us.

I am however pointing out that the odds in the form of our political, media and business establishment are heavily stacked against socialism of any form.

Many Corbynites including the man himself had been in Parliament a long time and were the product of public schools, making them about as establishment as it's possible to be. They are also crap at politics, crap at communication and crap at persausion. Yet I've seen no attempt at honest self-assessement amongst the far left. Real socialists might try this instead of a "stab in the back" story.

. Never mentioned Corbyn either. Blairites are also crap at politics.

[Johnny Brown]

What, like achieving a landslide general election victory and being in power for thirteen years? We all wish Corbyn had been that kind of crap.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Well chuffed to see that this thread name got changed from "Boris" to "Johnson". I find it very strange when otherwise sensible people use Johnson's first name alone..  it's just a brand who's key aim is suckering you.

It may be for you I associate it with something else.

Boris - I associate it with very little attention at all. I don't want to qualify that with the words "worthy of".

[BrutusTheBear]

If it turnes out I were to have said say something like 'Labour bunch of cunts' not so long ago, would I be allowed in the party? (Asking for a friend cough.... Christian....  cough..... Wakeford). Like I said a joke. 

[BrutusTheBear]

What, like achieving a landslide general election victory and being in power for thirteen years? We all wish Corbyn had been that kind of crap.

. More thinking of the having it all and throwing it away through sleaze, PFIs, corruption and illegal wars based on made up intelligence kind of consequential crapness.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

And now he's using the bloody beaches again.. well, not exactly, but you know what I mean.

From the Twitter feed 11 hours ago:

"I’m delighted that Her Majesty The Queen has given permission for a special medal be awarded to all those who deployed to Kabul in August last year, honouring the heroism of those who carried out the biggest emergency evacuation for decades and rescuing 15,000 people."

What about everyone who died here, that he's demonstrating total disregard towards?

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Dictionary
Search for a word
johnson
/ˈdʒɒns(ə)n/
nounVULGAR SLANG•US
a man's penis.

I didn't know that! 

[joel182]

I absolutely detest that our terrible political and electoral system means letting a 2019 Tory with a gross record of votes defect to the Labour party is probably, electorally and pragmatically, the right decision.

[Oldmanmatt]

And now he's using the bloody beaches again.. well, not exactly, but you know what I mean.

From the Twitter feed 11 hours ago:

"I’m delighted that Her Majesty The Queen has given permission for a special medal be awarded to all those who deployed to Kabul in August last year, honouring the heroism of those who carried out the biggest emergency evacuation for decades and rescuing 15,000 people."

What about everyone who died here, that he's demonstrating total disregard towards?

It’s got f##% all to do with Johnson and dealing with and knowing many of the men and women on that f###ing awful operation, they deserve the recognition. Did you mean to dis them too, or just the buffoon who was elected to be their boss?

[BrutusTheBear]

Dictionary
Search for a word
johnson
/ˈdʒɒns(ə)n/
nounVULGAR SLANG•US
a man's penis.

I didn't know that! 

Seems appropriate. It's an American term, that's where Johnson was born. 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

And now he's using the bloody beaches again.. well, not exactly, but you know what I mean.

From the Twitter feed 11 hours ago:

"I’m delighted that Her Majesty The Queen has given permission for a special medal be awarded to all those who deployed to Kabul in August last year, honouring the heroism of those who carried out the biggest emergency evacuation for decades and rescuing 15,000 people."

What about everyone who died here, that he's demonstrating total disregard towards?

It’s got f##% all to do with Johnson and dealing with and knowing many of the men and women on that f###ing awful operation, they deserve the recognition. Did you mean to dis them too, or just the buffoon who was elected to be their boss?

That he was using them (to serve his own ends), was the point Matt.

[TobyD]

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1483782129968422913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1483782129968422913%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=file%3A%2F%2F%2Fdata%2Fdata%2Fcom.guardian%2Ffiles%2Fpolitics%2F2022%2Fjan%2F19%2Fboris-johnson-grilled-by-line-of-duty-team-in-spoof-video-viewed-by-5-million

I imagine everyone has already watched this,  but if not... it is quite funny. 

[mrjonathanr]

I didn’t find it funny. Too close to the sad truth for me.

This did amuse me though:
https://twitter.com/StevieH1303/status/1483868286299394054

[TobyD]

You can see how Cummings is so monumentally bitter and twisted at being chucked out eventually after Barnard Castle when his boss and his wife were having parties with their interior decorator and friends every week. 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

"Job offers gratefully accepted"..

you've got competition Toby..

Well, we hope you do.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Boris in the Commons yesterday:

"The pandemic has been hard on every one.. of them".

[TobyD]

"Job offers gratefully accepted"..

you've got competition Toby..

Well, we hope you do.

?

[Teaboy]

You can see how Cummings is so monumentally bitter and twisted at being chucked out eventually after Barnard Castle when his boss and his wife were having parties with their interior decorator and friends every week.

He wasn’t, he left /was thrown out because he’s a vain, venal cunt working with and for a bunch of other vain, venal cunts and they inevitably started fighting like rats in a sack. He’s no reason to feel aggrieved and much as I am enjoying his contributions to Johnson’s downfall he still is and always will be a complete cunt. As will May and any other Tory who has now decided to give Johnson a kicking. Let’s not rewrite history, your enemy’s enemy is not your friend, in this case they are an unflushable turd scared for their jobs.

[SamT]

He wasn’t, he left /was thrown out because he’s a vain, venal cunt working with and for a bunch of other vain, venal cunts and they inevitably started fighting like rats in a sack. He’s no reason to feel aggrieved and much as I am enjoying his contributions to Johnson’s downfall he still is and always will be a complete cunt. As will May and any other Tory who has now decided to give Johnson a kicking. Let’s not rewrite history, your enemy’s enemy is not your friend, in this case they are an unflushable turd scared for their jobs.

Chapeau!

[mrjonathanr]

Cummings thinks he's the Kingmaker, far above plebeian minds who merely vote:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/01/dominic-cummings-the-man-trying-to-take-down-boris-johnson.html

[DAVETHOMAS90]

"Job offers gratefully accepted"..

you've got competition Toby..

Well, we hope you do.

?

Sorry Toby. Was hoping someone else might have been looking for a new job too

[TobyD]

You can see how Cummings is so monumentally bitter and twisted at being chucked out eventually after Barnard Castle when his boss and his wife were having parties with their interior decorator and friends every week.

He wasn’t, he left /was thrown out because he’s a vain, venal cunt working with and for a bunch of other vain, venal cunts and they inevitably started fighting like rats in a sack. He’s no reason to feel aggrieved and much as I am enjoying his contributions to Johnson’s downfall he still is and always will be a complete cunt. As will May and any other Tory who has now decided to give Johnson a kicking. Let’s not rewrite history, your enemy’s enemy is not your friend, in this case they are an unflushable turd scared for their jobs.

I didn't intend any benefit to Cummings character, I still think he's a disagreeable sort, who's probably willing to do anything for his strange idealology. I wouldn't say I really agree with him on very much at all, but he does show considerable cunning and sometimes intelligence, which Johnson really doesn't; I genuinely think that Johnson is  not very clever at all; I don't think either should be anywhere near government.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I think it's amazing how we can accept the word Government - and what we assume it means.

If Cummings is able to bring to light the extent of any shortcomings, the neglect and disregard, then that has to be welcomed doesn't it?

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I found this piece in the guardian really thought provoking.


https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/aug/08/public-schoolboys-boris-johnson-sad-little-boys-richard-beard