Thats interesting. There are 6 grades between my OS and RP grades, whereas looks like its 3 grades for you two. That makes sense for jwi if hes an endurance beast and lives near loads of endurance routes, but I can't work out whether Ged or I is the outlier for UK climbers!
Spidermonkey, am I right in thinking you had a ridiculously skinny pyramid? Is that still true? If so prob accounts for some of the yawning chasm between your os and rp grades
Makes sense. Interestingly I would say I'm pretty good at onsighting (perhaps wrongly!) so maybe I just haven't tried that many. Certainly I can't think of many harder routes I've consciously tried to onsight, I tend to prefer to dog up them and then do them first go if possible. Sounds like thats something I could address on future Euro trips!
My view is similar... I would generally consider:- 3 or 4 to be "normal" (a gap of 3 for flash and 4 for onsight seems pretty common)- 5 or more means you're either disproportionately poor at onsight or don't do much of it- 2 or less means you're either disproportionately poor at redpointing or don't do much of it
I'm almost not interested in dogging up routes I'm likely to do second go as I figure if I can do it that fast I should be having a good flash or onsight try (or trying something harder for longer).
(And I can never be bothered to try things on flash either, because people never give me any reasonable sequences. They seem to assume that I can hold small crimps, or get my fingers into tiny slots or pockets.)
Quote from: jwi on January 10, 2022, 05:41:07 pm(And I can never be bothered to try things on flash either, because people never give me any reasonable sequences. They seem to assume that I can hold small crimps, or get my fingers into tiny slots or pockets.)I think this is quite interesting as I'd say Im proportionately better at flashing than onsighting. For me I'll always take sequence beta
Quote from: remus on January 10, 2022, 08:07:40 pmQuote from: jwi on January 10, 2022, 05:41:07 pm(And I can never be bothered to try things on flash either, because people never give me any reasonable sequences. They seem to assume that I can hold small crimps, or get my fingers into tiny slots or pockets.)I think this is quite interesting as I'd say Im proportionately better at flashing than onsighting. For me I'll always take sequence beta Don’t I know it!
IMO, if you''ve RPd 8c and aren't at least semi-consistently onsighting the "classically onsightable" euro 8as, then you probably either aren't very good at it or don't do much of it. Obviously not trying to onsight them will put you firmly in the latter camp by default! Plenty of people prefer that, which is obviously fine - you probably get more done that way than trying to onsight them. Blowing a hard o/s up high on a long route can leave you flamed for the day and unable to RP so it's a high risk strategy. I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum - I'm almost not interested in dogging up routes I'm likely to do second go as I figure if I can do it that fast I should be having a good flash or onsight try (or trying something harder for longer). But that's just because of what I like doing and in some ways it holds me back (I'd have done a shit load more routes at that level with a different approach). Somewhere in the middle would probably work better for both of us!
and onsighting 2 full number grades below a person's RP limit has been widely corroborated in many countries as a kind of world standard for a theoretical 'average' climber (holding true for the lower grades too so RP 6c means OS 6a and RP 7c means OS 7a).
Not disagreeing, but pretty sure you mean two full letter grades, not number grades.
Thought I'd apply a bit of #SCIENCE to the proceedings so had a quick look at some of the lattice data. Looks like the average difference between RP and OS grade (to be precise, RP - OS) is 2.6 grades across the sample I looked at. Usual caveats apply, potentially biased sample etc.
BTW, not all UK routes are desparate to onsight, Defcon 3 is just as onsightable as any 8a in Chulila IMHO. All the holds are well chalked and the line quite obvious.
Quote from: abarro81 on January 10, 2022, 05:21:40 pmIMO, if you''ve RPd 8c and aren't at least semi-consistently onsighting the "classically onsightable" euro 8as, then you probably either aren't very good at it or don't do much of it. Obviously not trying to onsight them will put you firmly in the latter camp by default! Plenty of people prefer that, which is obviously fine - you probably get more done that way than trying to onsight them. Blowing a hard o/s up high on a long route can leave you flamed for the day and unable to RP so it's a high risk strategy. I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum - I'm almost not interested in dogging up routes I'm likely to do second go as I figure if I can do it that fast I should be having a good flash or onsight try (or trying something harder for longer). But that's just because of what I like doing and in some ways it holds me back (I'd have done a shit load more routes at that level with a different approach). Somewhere in the middle would probably work better for both of us!I think this is all true. Would be keen for a shortlist of 'classically onsightable' euro 8as if you get a moment so I can ensure I at least try a few in the next few years to redress the balance a bit!I think the risk of flaming myself on a failed onsight go is part of the reason I haven't tended to try them much tbh. I think I also am fundamentally lazy on holidays abroad and go for steady onsights which I know I'll probably do as opposed to pushing the boat out. Interestingly I'm also yet to do anything harder than my best onsight 'in a day' if that makes sense, although I should have done a few times in the UK. Basically I think I need to try a bit harder! That said, I think the time period where I have been at least theoretically capable of harder onsighting has coincided almost perfectly with travel being extremely arduous/ impossible, which doesn't help!