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Protein inflation (Read 5418 times)

abarro81

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Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 10:42:07 am
Usually I buy protein from myprotein - it used to be £90 for a 5kg bag... but now it's £140! Bulk powders also up to £130... beta alanine also doubled... anyone know anywhere that's still cheap? Obviously there are always deals of 30-50% off, but that used to be the case even at the old prices... 5% inflation my arse...
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 10:48:07 am by abarro81 »

Bradders

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#1 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 10:53:26 am
Wow, what's gone on there?! I bought 2.5kg of protein powder from myprotein in October for £32 including their seemingly permanent discount code. Same today is £50! Bizarre.

teestub

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#2 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 11:29:46 am
Appears to be largely Covid supply chain issue related now filtering through
https://www.fitnessmag.co.za/its-time-to-buy-protein-prices-set-to-rise-up-to-36/

Bradders

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#3 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 11:53:42 am
Interesting.

Looks like the vegan / pea protein options are still holding at a lower price, might be worth a go. I've no idea whether they're as good as bog standard whey though.

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#4 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 12:02:03 pm
Vegan protein is a lot better for the environment. However, it mixes and tastes a lot worse than whey protein.

YMMV

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#5 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 12:14:16 pm
They seem to have stopped making the type I always got entirely so I had to switch to a slightly different type that has the same amount of protes in but tastes slightly of cheese.  :look:

MyProtein’s a bit like DFS though isn’t it? They have some kind of offer on almost all the time so only the rich and/ or foolish pay full price. If you check regularly and are prepared to buy in advance of when you need it you can find ridiculous discounts. Best seem to be when they have “discount decreasing by 1% every five minutes” days- if you get in when they start at about 8AM it’s like 80% off.

teestub

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#6 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 12:52:49 pm

Looks like the vegan / pea protein options are still holding at a lower price, might be worth a go. I've no idea whether they're as good as bog standard whey though.

All the ones I tried back in my vegan days were totally disgusting, this may have changed in the interim decade!  Be worth getting samples if you can so you don’t end up with a kilo of unusable powder.

Liamhutch89

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#7 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 01:05:29 pm
Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet). 

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#8 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 01:08:35 pm
Usually I buy protein from myprotein - it used to be £90 for a 5kg bag... but now it's £140! Bulk powders also up to £130... beta alanine also doubled... anyone know anywhere that's still cheap? Obviously there are always deals of 30-50% off, but that used to be the case even at the old prices... 5% inflation my arse...

Whatever the price today, they’ll discount it heavily coming up to New Year’s Eve. I’d check again after Christmas.

Wellsy

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#9 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 02:15:55 pm
Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet). 

I try to stay as natural and unprocessed as possible generally but a couple of scoops of whey protein in the shaker really helps wash down the daily Dianabol in my experience.

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#10 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 02:48:41 pm
Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

I think the most up to date guidelines advise between 1.5-2g per 1kg for the more active?

abarro81

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#11 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 03:02:30 pm
I like using it to flavour my morning porridge..

Who knew whey commodity pricing was so volatile!

Adam Lincoln

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#12 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 03:11:56 pm
Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

How do you go about getting your protein in mid session, and also straight after climbing to maximise recovery? Do you carry a chicken breast around with you? Or a tin of tuna?

Everyone always bangs the 'I get my protein from my food' drum but its not always about that its about convenience..... For my at least.

And like Alex says, protein is nice to have in your porridge in the morning and sets you off nicely for the day. yes you could have 3 eggs, but I like a bit of variety.

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#13 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 03:15:01 pm
I like using it to flavour my morning porridge..


in which case I would stay away from pea-based protein!

Liamhutch89

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#14 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 03:20:31 pm
Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

I think the most up to date guidelines advise between 1.5-2g per 1kg for the more active?

Depends which study you look at. I don't think the dust has settled. Back in my weightlifting days I weighed up to 100kg lean and was deadlifting over 250kg on no more than 100g of protein per day, so I figured I certainly don't need more than that now!

I like using it to flavour my morning porridge..

Who knew whey commodity pricing was so volatile!


Chocolate whey porridge with whole milk and peanut butter mixed in cannot be beaten!

Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

How do you go about getting your protein in mid session, and also straight after climbing to maximise recovery? Do you carry a chicken breast around with you? Or a tin of tuna?

Everyone always bangs the 'I get my protein from my food' drum but its not always about that its about convenience..... For my at least.

And like Alex says, protein is nice to have in your porridge in the morning and sets you off nicely for the day. yes you could have 3 eggs, but I like a bit of variety.

Protein timing has such a negligible impact that for me it's not worth considering, and I'm generally a sucker for marginal gains! As long as I get 3 to 4 meals.in each day I'm happy. Fair play for variety, I have no problems with protein powder at all and I've used it loads in the past but I was just reminding that its not necessary if cost is becoming a concern.

Bradders

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#15 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 03:56:26 pm
Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

I think the most up to date guidelines advise between 1.5-2g per 1kg for the more active?

You obviously haven't seen Liam's muscles!  :lol:

Powder's just very convenient and until now was certainly the cheapest way of getting protein.

Adam Lincoln

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#16 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 04:10:51 pm
Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

I think the most up to date guidelines advise between 1.5-2g per 1kg for the more active?

Depends which study you look at. I don't think the dust has settled. Back in my weightlifting days I weighed up to 100kg lean and was deadlifting over 250kg on no more than 100g of protein per day, so I figured I certainly don't need more than that now!

I like using it to flavour my morning porridge..

Who knew whey commodity pricing was so volatile!


Chocolate whey porridge with whole milk and peanut butter mixed in cannot be beaten!

Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

How do you go about getting your protein in mid session, and also straight after climbing to maximise recovery? Do you carry a chicken breast around with you? Or a tin of tuna?

Everyone always bangs the 'I get my protein from my food' drum but its not always about that its about convenience..... For my at least.

And like Alex says, protein is nice to have in your porridge in the morning and sets you off nicely for the day. yes you could have 3 eggs, but I like a bit of variety.

Protein timing has such a negligible impact that for me it's not worth considering, and I'm generally a sucker for marginal gains! As long as I get 3 to 4 meals.in each day I'm happy. Fair play for variety, I have no problems with protein powder at all and I've used it loads in the past but I was just reminding that its not necessary if cost is becoming a concern.

Having followed your max hang protocol posts and now this you strike me as someone who does what they think is right and thats that. There's no reasoning, its your way and thats that. Don't mean that in a bad way, good luck to you.

Liamhutch89

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#17 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 05:33:22 pm
Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

I think the most up to date guidelines advise between 1.5-2g per 1kg for the more active?

Depends which study you look at. I don't think the dust has settled. Back in my weightlifting days I weighed up to 100kg lean and was deadlifting over 250kg on no more than 100g of protein per day, so I figured I certainly don't need more than that now!

I like using it to flavour my morning porridge..

Who knew whey commodity pricing was so volatile!


Chocolate whey porridge with whole milk and peanut butter mixed in cannot be beaten!

Has everyone tried just getting their protein from food? I get 1 gram per kg of bodyweight without trying at all (fish, chicken and greek yoghurt are staples in my diet).

How do you go about getting your protein in mid session, and also straight after climbing to maximise recovery? Do you carry a chicken breast around with you? Or a tin of tuna?

Everyone always bangs the 'I get my protein from my food' drum but its not always about that its about convenience..... For my at least.

And like Alex says, protein is nice to have in your porridge in the morning and sets you off nicely for the day. yes you could have 3 eggs, but I like a bit of variety.

Protein timing has such a negligible impact that for me it's not worth considering, and I'm generally a sucker for marginal gains! As long as I get 3 to 4 meals.in each day I'm happy. Fair play for variety, I have no problems with protein powder at all and I've used it loads in the past but I was just reminding that its not necessary if cost is becoming a concern.

Having followed your max hang protocol posts and now this you strike me as someone who does what they think is right and thats that. There's no reasoning, its your way and thats that. Don't mean that in a bad way, good luck to you.

Haha that is utter bollocks!

My current max hang protocol gave me my best ever results in the past, hence trying it again. I haven't tried to pretend that it's sustainable and I'll soon change to something else when i plateau. I didn't ask for any advice and no one suggested not to do it, so using that to justify me being someone that cannot be reasoned with is nonsense.

However, you tried to challenge me on it out of the blue, coming into a thread you self admittedly don't normally visit, just to suggest I didn't know what I was doing. No advice given for me to refuse, just an attempt to pull me down? 

Now onto diet, i make just one suggestion that you can get enough protein from diet alone if the cost of whey is a concern, and you appear again to challenge me on protein timing. Thats fine, and I explain that timing hasn't made any difference FOR ME, but now you're bitching that I can't be reasoned with. Amazing! I even agreed that protein powder is absolutely fine, that I've used it plenty myself, and variety is as good a reason as any to use it!

There are many posts on this forum where I'm asking for advice, but you'll struggle to find many where I've turned down advice and simply said my way is better.

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#18 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 07:56:15 pm
...and you appear again to challenge me on protein timing. Thats fine, and I explain that timing hasn't made any difference FOR ME,

Happy to be shot down by someone with better knowledge of this area (or a pubmed vigilante!), but I vaguely recall (probably from the Science of Sport website / podcast) that the notion of a "protein window" - having to eat protein within 2 hours of exercise - was from a really badly designed and / or widely misinterpreted study.  Basically, it compared people who had supplementary protein within 2 hours of exercise with people who had no supplementary protein at all.  Studies since, which compared people with equal protein intakes, found no urgency re timings. 

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#19 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 08:19:08 pm
Vegan protein is a lot better for the environment. However, it mixes and tastes a lot worse than whey protein.

YMMV

If using vegan protein powders I recommend blending in something like a Nutribullet rather than mixing in a normal shaker, results in a much nicer shake.

Wellsy

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#20 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 08:31:36 pm
I believe that if you're looking for hypertrophy in big compound lifts (bench, dead, squat etc) then there's basically no such thing as too much protein and 2g per kg would be good, more wouldn't hurt.

As climbers outside of certain training phases that's probably not necessary. I did see some research that said the more trained someone was the better their muscle reacted to a higher protein intake but beyond 120g there was no discernable improvement, I'll try to dig it out.

Thing is you can't really have too much protein so if you just whack in some shakes nothing bad will happen.

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#21 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 09:31:47 pm
My Whey may be better still. Don't know:

https://www.bulk.com/uk/pure-whey-protein.html?view=ppc&pid=3249&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqvaNBhDLARIsAH1Pq50DqwKBJLpm6X0nilfd-OYbxaFUQ81NqIOk7wPk3rjrYJRU5U5NN6IaAj-EEALw_wcB

Liam, I'm being lazy. Stick up a link to your hangs protocol please ;)  :thumbsup:

Moose, that's really interesting. Thanks for adding that. Will check it out  :thumbsup:

Plenty of information about the impact of ingesting too much protein, but no clear cut advice/conclusions as far as I can tell, other than the standard advice of "stick to something lower than 2g protein/KG body weight".

Worth considering the different proteins in normal whole milk. Short article on the difference between whey and casein in whole milk:

https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a19536623/is-milk-healthy-0/

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#22 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 10:02:47 pm
Happy to be shot down by someone with better knowledge of this area (or a pubmed vigilante!), but I vaguely recall (probably from the Science of Sport website / podcast) that the notion of a "protein window" - having to eat protein within 2 hours of exercise - was from a really badly designed and / or widely misinterpreted study.  Basically, it compared people who had supplementary protein within 2 hours of exercise with people who had no supplementary protein at all.  Studies since, which compared people with equal protein intakes, found no urgency re timings.

Heard similar but just failed to find it: the nutrition literature is so shoddy I lose the will after not long spent scanning abstracts. It's certainly useful for protein powder manufacturers to promote this idea.


Thing is you can't really have too much protein so if you just whack in some shakes nothing bad will happen.

You might eat less whole food so missing out on micronutrients and fibre? Your microbiome (and taste buds) may not thank you.




And like Alex says, protein is nice to have in your porridge in the morning and sets you off nicely for the day. yes you could have 3 eggs, but I like a bit of variety.

Sardines or other sustainable whole fish, on toast, with a squeeze of lemon to cut through the oil. Will also give you collagen and vitamin C if you think that's helpful (I'm in the bald men eating hair camp).



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#23 Re: Protein inflation
December 18, 2021, 10:52:19 pm
My protein breakfast of choice is almond butter pancake: 2 eggs, dollop of almond butter, one banana. Blend. Fry mixture in butter. Serve with berries and nuts on top.

Porridge can get in the sea.

Liamhutch89

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#24 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 08:18:03 am
Liam, I'm being lazy. Stick up a link to your hangs protocol please ;)  :thumbsup:

It's nothing clever, I'm essentially just severely overtraining and doing max hangs every day and sometimes twice a day for a few weeks. On paper it shouldn't work, but it has for me so i don't question it.

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#25 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 09:05:10 am
I believe that if you're looking for hypertrophy in big compound lifts (bench, dead, squat etc) then there's basically no such thing as too much protein and 2g per kg would be good, more wouldn't hurt.

As climbers outside of certain training phases that's probably not necessary. I did see some research that said the more trained someone was the better their muscle reacted to a higher protein intake but beyond 120g there was no discernable improvement, I'll try to dig it out.
Thing is you can't really have too much protein so if you just whack in some shakes nothing bad will happen.

I  thought the latest thinking was that a dose of protein should be at least 20g, but beyond that the benefit diminishes, and you're much better having 20g 4 or 5 times a day than smashing a load post exercise.

This is just one paper, cherry picked as the top google hit but it is saying something similar to the piece a read (can't remember where, dyor etc.)

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-018-0215-1

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#26 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 10:36:56 am
I have seen that too, I always try to smooth it across the day.

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#27 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 10:53:37 am
As I understand it: protein, especially leucine, is an anabolic signaller. Therefore it is better to maintain the signal with steady consumption every few hours rather than peaks and troughs with large quantities of protein at long intervals.

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#28 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 11:57:07 am
As I understand it: protein, especially leucine, is an anabolic signaller. Therefore it is better to maintain the signal with steady consumption every few hours rather than peaks and troughs with large quantities of protein at long intervals.

True, but there does seem to be some reasonable studies pointing to it being better to have 4 x 20g rather than grazing through 8 x 10g, or binging on 2 x 40g. For me it was really nice to hear that, as it's easier to hit 20g in a post climbing snack (e.g. toast and tin of mackerel) and I already get about 20g at breakfast and I aim for the same at dinner if I can. I live with a veggie, and basically am veggie most of the time so it takes a bit of effort to make sure I'm getting enough (think this has been a problem for me the last few years)

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#29 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 02:39:04 pm
Here it is;

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376

Summary/conclusion Dietary protein supplementation significantly enhanced changes in muscle strength and size during prolonged RET in healthy adults. Increasing age reduces and training experience increases the efficacy of protein supplementation during RET. With protein supplementation, protein intakes at amounts greater than ~1.6 g/kg/day do not further contribute RET(Resistance Exercise Training)-induced gains in FFM (Fat Free Mass)

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#30 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 02:56:10 pm
...Increasing age reduces [...] the efficacy of protein supplementation during RET.
Interesting, I thought ensuring sufficient protein was more important as you got older.

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#31 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 03:09:04 pm
...Increasing age reduces [...] the efficacy of protein supplementation during RET.
Interesting, I thought ensuring sufficient protein was more important as you got older.

I think you’re right, and that is backed up by this conclusion: increasing age reduces the effect of protein supplementation (as it also reduces the response to exercise stimuli), so it will be more important to get it right than if you’re younger and getting a greater effect.

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#32 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 03:27:35 pm
Ah yeah, that does make sense now you put it like that!

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#33 Re: Protein inflation
December 19, 2021, 05:15:05 pm
Here it is;

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376

Summary/conclusion Dietary protein supplementation significantly enhanced changes in muscle strength and size during prolonged RET in healthy adults. Increasing age reduces and training experience increases the efficacy of protein supplementation during RET. With protein supplementation, protein intakes at amounts greater than ~1.6 g/kg/day do not further contribute RET(Resistance Exercise Training)-induced gains in FFM (Fat Free Mass)

Thanks for this. It looks like a well-conducted meta-analysis. To be included in the meta analysis a quality threshold had to be achieved. Most of the studies reviewed were of relatively short duration: only 5 of 61 studies had training periods of 24 weeks or more, most stopped by 12 weeks. Focusing on the strength rather than bulk gains, they conclude the changes brought about by training are far bigger than the effects of protein supplementation but the latter may be worth considering if you're after marginal gains. It's worth noting that only 4 studies included in the meta analysis were on trained individuals and my reading of the data is only one of the four showed a clear-cut effect. The pooled effect was small but positive in trained individuals: supplementation helped but only a little. 

Our analysis, and those from others, leads us to conclude that the specifics of protein supplementation (eg, timing, postexercise protein dose or protein source) play a minor, if any, role in determining RET[resistance exercise training] -induced gains in FFM and strength over a period of weeks. Instead, our results indicate that a daily protein intake of ~1.6 g/kg/day, separated into ~0.25 g/kg doses, is more influential on adaptive changes with RET, at least for younger individuals.

So someone weighing 70kg would eat 5-6 meals a day each containing, as suggested above, ~20g of protein. Older people may need more, perhaps as much as 35-40g per meal (mentioned in the discussion, not a finding of this analysis).


 

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