[jwi]

Preferably with a partner who mock them endlessly if they say take our jump off voluntarily

Stuff like this is, in my opinion, where you want a climbing partner who will give you shit rather than give you sympathy when you wimp out and say take or drop off while 1ft above the bolt rather than pushing on. (Unless you are really terrified, where a more gradual transition into things might be required)

All I can say is - don't try to be that guy when belaying your other half of she's not asked for it.........

Very true... Luckily almost no one pushes harder on the redpoint go than my better half. (Onsights is another thing altogether and I think it would be better if any hard truths came from someone else...)

[Duncan Disorderly]

All I can say is - don't try to be that guy when belaying your other half ........

Winner of UKB best advice award November 2021... 

[Paul B]

Very true... Luckily almost no one pushes harder on the redpoint go than my better half. (Onsights is another thing altogether and I think it would be better if any hard truths came from someone else...)

I don't know, I've seen some pretty impressive 'spite' ascents 

In terms of hard truths, I'd been pointing a few things out which weren't well received when my better half ended up on a free masterclass day with Mammut and two of their athletes (Anna S and Jakob S). In typical Foundry style, the weather was great outside so everyone went climbing instead of attending their pre-booked session and I spent the morning trying to sign anyone I could up to attend so it wasn't embarrassing. Jakob made the same suggestions (and I did a little  ).

For balance this cuts both ways and I get plenty of shit for being a technical dunce and very bad at route finding on bigger things.

[mrjonathanr]

Struggling to picture how the ‘I told you so’ jig and reel is a contributor to marital harmony tbh. It’s never worked for me.

[Paul B]

Struggling to picture how the ‘I told you so’ jig and reel is a contributor to marital harmony tbh. It’s never worked for me.

I think we're both pretty aware that climbing/cycling (or whatever) is fairly superficial compared to the things that do actually lead to martial harmony.

[seankenny]

I think we're both pretty aware that climbing/cycling (or whatever) is fairly superficial compared to the things that do actually lead to martial harmony.

Yes, but I would still like a four point benchmarking system for achieving marital harmony.

[Fultonius]

Struggling to picture how the ‘I told you so’ jig and reel is a contributor to marital harmony tbh. It’s never worked for me.

I think we're both pretty aware that climbing/cycling (or whatever) is fairly superficial compared to the things that do actually lead to martial harmony.

Is that a bit like martial law, just in the family home? 

[Rocksteady]

All I can say is - don't try to be that guy when belaying your other half ........

Winner of UKB best advice award November 2021... 

Reminds me of this classic from Gaz Parry on the joy and peril of climbing in a couple
<iframe title="vimeo-player" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/39794682?h=783ba484c2" width="640" height="424" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Rocksteady]

The classic “weekend warrior”approach of Tue/Thur sessions where you do one exercise for each of strength/ancap/aerocap could suit you well. Especially so if you can split your day and do the strength stuff in the morning?

More on topic this thread is an absolute goldmine, particularly like the above as someone who has always struggled to work out how to fit ancap into my schedule.

[Duma]

All I can say is - don't try to be that guy when belaying your other half ........

Winner of UKB best advice award November 2021... 

Reminds me of this classic from Gaz Parry on the joy and peril of climbing in a couple
<iframe title="vimeo-player" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/39794682?h=783ba484c2" width="640" height="424" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Link doesn't work for me?

[remus]

Try this Duma

[KeithScarlett]

If you feel you could do all of JWIs tests then you’re probably quite well rounded as a climber. The value of the tests is in identifying particular weaknesses to work on. If you are well rounded, there’s a lot to be said for a structured but balanced approach.

The classic “weekend warrior”approach of Tue/Thur sessions where you do one exercise for each of strength/ancap/aerocap could suit you well. Especially so if you can split your day and do the strength stuff in the morning?

Having said that, if you can do all those tests you really should be pretty solid on 8a. It might be worth asking the following:

- is the 7B you are thinking of in a similar style to the the 8a cruxes you try?

- do you have performance anxiety issues, like self-sabotaging mistakes on RP?

Having thought about this more I am now wondering whether the test I would actually struggle with is the 7B in 5 tries? If I was familiar with it and it was basic (reliant on strength and power) then I think it would be realistic. My confidence level would however be 99% if it was 7A+ so that's perhaps an important point of difference.

When you mention a 'weekend warrior' structure do you mean for example: Strength on a Tuesday, Ancap on a Thursday and Aerocap at the weekend? I think whatever I came up with I still would want at least one session a week where I could just go and try hard, enjoy myself.

It's hard to identify a 7B that might be similar as the 8as I've done or been on are varied; the last one involved a little bit of power endurance into a technical traverse. But I think part of what you're saying might be that it's worth seeking out something similar i.e. trying a boulder problem that replicates in style the route in question?

As to performance anxiety I'm not aware of anything specific but I often think my redpointing is lacking i.e. as soon as I can do the moves (usually after 1 or 2 dogging gos) I start redpointing but then find, because of this approach, something I can do in isolation or off the rope doesn't work on lead. Or I'm able to readily link, say, 90% of the route but there's a stopper section where I am using questionable beta.

[Stu Littlefair]

An exact plan depends on what volume of training you are used to, and what time you’ve got available, but if you’re balanced, the idea would be to get a balanced amount of training in each area.

For example, I might make myself a plan where I do strength work on Tue and Thursday mornings and an ancap session and aerocap session on both Tue/Thur evening. That might be too much or too little for some, and you might not be able to split the day up… But you could start with Alex’s sport climbing training PDF and balance the amounts in each area and not go far wrong.

When I asked about the specificity of the boulder problem its because it’s quite possible to be able to smash in blobby steep 7B indoors quite easily, but struggle on more vertical techy 7Bs outdoors, and the latter are more similar to UK route cruxes, so you need to think about whether you lack strength in a specific style

[reeve]

I don't know you well, but I have seen you climb on odd occasions, and have noticed your UKC logs.

From what I can remember you were technically a good climber but (please dont get offended by this) I'd say it seems like your head is what holds you back. I kind of remember you lacking a bit of killer instinct, as in the ability to fudge a sequence but grit your teeth and try and get through it anyway. Your UKC logbook supports this. I don't know you well enough to say whether you have a fear of falling or not. But it may be another thing worth considering.

Once again, I hope I havent caused any offence and I may well be well off the mark as I don't know you very well at all - and havent seen you climb in years!

Obviously a bit of training won't hurt, but maybe there are lower hanging fruit that could yield way better results?

Hope you get to where you want to be - maybe catch you at the crag next year,

Dunc

I'd love to get some helpful constructive criticism like this. I actually asked several people for feedback this year, and the only advice I got out of anyone was Fiend suggesting I rack my wires differently

[KeithScarlett]

I guess if you feel you could do all of jwi's tests but wouldn't class yourself as an 8a climber then there is obviously something else at play here, and so it might be "headless" to be even looking down the physical avenue.

I don't know you well, but I have seen you climb on odd occasions, and have noticed your UKC logs.

From what I can remember you were technically a good climber but (please dont get offended by this) I'd say it seems like your head is what holds you back. I kind of remember you lacking a bit of killer instinct, as in the ability to fudge a sequence but grit your teeth and try and get through it anyway. Your UKC logbook supports this. I don't know you well enough to say whether you have a fear of falling or not. But it may be another thing worth considering.

Once again, I hope I havent caused any offence and I may well be well off the mark as I don't know you very well at all - and havent seen you climb in years!

Obviously a bit of training won't hurt, but maybe there are lower hanging fruit that could yield way better results?

Hope you get to where you want to be - maybe catch you at the crag next year,

Dunc

Hi Dunc, The feedback is really appreciated and of note is that, while I think we've only been at the same crag / wall on a small number of occasions, you touch on something ('killer instinct') that Pete (who I've climbed with a lot) also echoes https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,31635.msg649819.html#msg649819.

I'm 99.99% certain falling is not an issue for me (it has been but not for a good while), certainly on sport; I give it everything and don't hold back because I might fall.

I think (know?) I have a very strong desire to climb well and in practice this means climbing elegantly (I hasten to add I am not saying I do this, just that it’s a motivation or aspiration). I wonder whether this then gets in the way when something starts to ‘go wrong’ i.e. the first rule is to climb well rather than get it done? How much does it mean that I focus on smoothness when ‘aggression’ is what’s needed?

No offence taken at all, and yes, hopefully we can catch up some time!

[KeithScarlett]

Keith, I know you somewhat as a climber from climbing with you bits over the years, I know what I'd say if you were to ask other people what holds you back from quickly rp'ing, say, an 8a in 5 goes*. Hint, it isn't fitness or strength!

* I'll share for the cyber Monday low price of £18.99



edit: I was going to pm you privately but just noticed Duncan's post.. he's said it spot on. I've always thought on routes you lack the killer instinct to keep fighting and get it done, instead too often giving in if things don't go smoothly. Searching out someone/some resource for training in how to have more of a battling mentality might be useful. Perhaps not going full Ben Cossey, but a little bit. You're fit enough, strong enough and technically good enough to *onsight* 8a with not much extra physical conditioning, if you wanted it enough, let alone rp in 5 goes. Said with best intent 

Hey Pete, You're very kind  I'm not entirely convinced that it's mental but, given that both Duncan and you have suggested this, I will give it serious thought and also start trying to bring bigger fight to things See you soon!

[KeithScarlett]

I read your post as you saying that without a clear physical area of weakness your training will be headless, but there's no reason for that to be the case.

I want to be clear: I do have areas of physical weakness - I think everything could be better!

But 2 things are emerging from the thread:

1. Perhaps a useful structure would be something straightforward in line with what you and Stu have suggested (this would address my intention to have something more structured and see progress against interim objectives).

2. It may be more mental than physical and seeking to ensure I consciously engage aggression / fight and tolerate sketching through something could be a big step forward (and one that I think can be trained).

[shark]

I'd love to get some helpful constructive criticism like this. I actually asked several people for feedback this year, and the only advice I got out of anyone was Fiend suggesting I rack my wires differently

You don’t go to the Tor enough as I’ve can’t recall seeing you there. And do more deadlifting. Maybe consider climbing slower and giving up yoga. HTH

[KeithScarlett]

I don't think you've said what your goal are Keith?

I find this difficult to answer in a meaningful way; I really want to climb 8a+ but have aspirations beyond that. I think what I'm trying to get at in this thread is identifying what the limiting factors are for me currently, what I can do about those and whether that's a methodology that can then be re-visited to take another step up.

As things stand I have no real idea of where I am relative to my ambitions.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

I want to be clear: I do have areas of physical weakness - I think everything could be better!

But 2 things are emerging from the thread:

1. Perhaps a useful structure would be something straightforward in line with what you and Stu have suggested (this would address my intention to have something more structured and see progress against interim objectives).

2. It may be more mental than physical and seeking to ensure I consciously engage aggression / fight and tolerate sketching through something could be a big step forward (and one that I think can be trained).

This is an excellent thread.

Re point 2. I'm always thinking about this  and was last night, trying to focus on output doing campus pulls on the fingerboard.

I think we can be overcome by the sense of "how things are going" - or rather, we want to avoid the feeling that things aren't going so well. I'd suggest this is more polarised for some than for others. However, training requires some exposure to something that we experience as being uncomfortable in some way, whether cognitively, physically, or both. Of course they aren't disconnected either.

What are you trying to preserve in the sense of things going well, and what are you trying to avoid in the experience of things not going well? Some structure in planned training can help put that to one side.

Deciding to train requires committing to a process, where you put a shorter term focus on outcome to one side - a bit like committing to an investment strategy, because of course, that's exactly what it is really. We can be too afraid of coming out  "a few quid down", that we get in the way of allowing things to grow.

As a bit of a mantra, I like to remind myself, that the more comfortable I am with feeling weak, the more likely I am to do the things that will help me get stronger 

(Not wanting to feel weak can hold us back more than anything, so worth exploring the thoughts you have about that - including saying things like "everything could be better" (which of course we could all say!), instead of perhaps asking "Which things would I like to improve".)

[petejh]

I'd love to get some helpful constructive criticism like this. I actually asked several people for feedback this year, and the only advice I got out of anyone was Fiend suggesting I rack my wires differently

 


I've seen you climb once, I think. You were trying to rp Mecca and not clipping the last bolt, I think to instil extra motivation to not fall off.. My advice would be clip all the bolts. That'll be £25.

[Fultonius]

2. It may be more mental than physical and seeking to ensure I consciously engage aggression / fight and tolerate sketching through something could be a big step forward (and one that I think can be trained).

Have you seen return to sender? Ah, found it.   So, it reminds me of the section where Eric Decaria and Renan Ozturk or both trying Air Sweden. Eric is the better climber, but is trying to be too smooth and controlled and it holds him back. Oh, damn - it's not in that bit, must be another part of the film.

Anyway, if you can track it down it's worth a watch.

[Duncan campbell]

I guess if you feel you could do all of jwi's tests but wouldn't class yourself as an 8a climber then there is obviously something else at play here, and so it might be "headless" to be even looking down the physical avenue.

I don't know you well, but I have seen you climb on odd occasions, and have noticed your UKC logs.

From what I can remember you were technically a good climber but (please dont get offended by this) I'd say it seems like your head is what holds you back. I kind of remember you lacking a bit of killer instinct, as in the ability to fudge a sequence but grit your teeth and try and get through it anyway. Your UKC logbook supports this. I don't know you well enough to say whether you have a fear of falling or not. But it may be another thing worth considering.

Once again, I hope I havent caused any offence and I may well be well off the mark as I don't know you very well at all - and havent seen you climb in years!

Obviously a bit of training won't hurt, but maybe there are lower hanging fruit that could yield way better results?

Hope you get to where you want to be - maybe catch you at the crag next year,

Dunc

Hi Dunc, The feedback is really appreciated and of note is that, while I think we've only been at the same crag / wall on a small number of occasions, you touch on something ('killer instinct') that Pete (who I've climbed with a lot) also echoes https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,31635.msg649819.html#msg649819.

I'm 99.99% certain falling is not an issue for me (it has been but not for a good while), certainly on sport; I give it everything and don't hold back because I might fall.

I think (know?) I have a very strong desire to climb well and in practice this means climbing elegantly (I hasten to add I am not saying I do this, just that it’s a motivation or aspiration). I wonder whether this then gets in the way when something starts to ‘go wrong’ i.e. the first rule is to climb well rather than get it done? How much does it mean that I focus on smoothness when ‘aggression’ is what’s needed?

No offence taken at all, and yes, hopefully we can catch up some time!

Glad no offence! I was a bit gripped when you didn’t reply for a while.

What you described is exactly as I remember you being. You do climb very well and it is clear you wish to climb a problem/route well, but I have memories of you looking smooth as silk, then one thing goes awry and you stepped off the boulder problem/said take (probably the former as I think I’ve mostly observed you in the cave).

I remember wondering what would of happened had you stuck with it, how much further would you of got?

It’s no bad thing to want to climb things well. But only up to a point. Those routes you cruise are ace, but those you slap and shake your way up are arguably better!

You mention 8a+ as a goal - any in mind?

You also talk about aspirations beyond that, this is good but maybe focus on shorter term goals?

[reeve]

 


I've seen you climb once, I think. You were trying to rp Mecca and not clipping the last bolt, I think to instil extra motivation to not fall off.. My advice would be clip all the bolts. That'll be £25.

You don’t go to the Tor enough as I’ve can’t recall seeing you there. And do more deadlifting. Maybe consider climbing slower and giving up yoga. HTH

You two or Friend, i can't decide who's least helpful

 

[spidermonkey09]

What you described is exactly as I remember you being. You do climb very well and it is clear you wish to climb a problem/route well, but I have memories of you looking smooth as silk, then one thing goes awry and you stepped off the boulder problem/said take (probably the former as I think I’ve mostly observed you in the cave).

I remember wondering what would of happened had you stuck with it, how much further would you of got?

I know a few people like this. Every single time I belay them they are climbing so well and making it looks so easy I think 'they're going to piss this' and then inexplicably they seem to fall off/let go! I wonder whether its something to do with breathing patterns as well; I have to consciously remind myself to maintain a steady even breathing pattern to stop me just holding my breath for extended sequences. The effect of this for me is almost to act as a metronome and helps me be precise but also sometimes gives me some leeway to try and fix it when I inevitably fluff the sequence. Thats my theory anyway...