[Bradders]

Fultonius I thought you were going to say that with Wellsy's base 2 hand strength the last thing he probably needs to train, for his current bouldering grade, is finger strength! 

[Duma]

It's 23mm. There's a thread on here somewhere with all the bm2k dimensions.

[Fultonius]

Fultonius I thought you were going to say that with Wellsy's base 2 hand strength the last thing he probably needs to train, for his current bouldering grade, is finger strength!

Aye, well, true but while the gains keep going is it worth stopping? 

[Wellsy]

Fultonius I thought you were going to say that with Wellsy's base 2 hand strength the last thing he probably needs to train, for his current bouldering grade, is finger strength!

Aye, well, true but while the gains keep going is it worth stopping? 

This is what I'm thinking. No downside and it's not exactly time consuming or session wrecking. In fact I tend to find it makes me a bit more recruited!

[spidermonkey09]

It's 23mm. There's a thread on here somewhere with all the bm2k dimensions.

Always been a bit of a mystery to me why the Beastmaker edges aren't more logical sizes. Guess they were pre the real nerdy training boom in a lot of ways. I bet if they made a tweaked version (the 3000?!) with the size of each edge stamped below it it would sell like hot cakes!

[SA Chris]

rather than my version with them in pencil.

[MischaHY]

Out of interest how regularly do people fingerboard? I've started doing it twice a week with an aim to one-armed hang the BM2000 central 25mm edge by the end of the year, but I'm not sure if a third weekly session would really help progress.

Weirdly I got to a one arm hang on 20mmish with very very little fingerboard training. The most serious fingerboarding I'd done was a 6 week block of middle two max hang twice a week. I went from -8KG to one arm within around 10 months of bouldering/route climbing and the one block of fingerboard. I have no idea why to this day but every year like clockwork do a retest on the lattice rung/BM2k and seem to be able to add a few more kilos. It drops off if I don't go bouldering but after a few weeks of bouldering will be back. Very weird because in all other aspects strength and power is my big weakness but the fingers are just out there doing their own thing apparently. Would be interesting to know if anyone else experienced this sort of thing.

[User deactivated.]

Very weird because in all other aspects strength and power is my big weakness but the fingers are just out there doing their own thing apparently. Would be interesting to know if anyone else experienced this sort of thing.

Exactly the opposite to me. I can go a year without looking at a barbell and then deadlift 200kg, but my fingers are weak for the grade and training them anywhere between 1 and 14 times per week has given me almost no gains for 18 months.

[spidermonkey09]

Weirdly I got to a one arm hang on 20mmish with very very little fingerboard training. The most serious fingerboarding I'd done was a 6 week block of middle two max hang twice a week. I went from -8KG to one arm within around 10 months of bouldering/route climbing and the one block of fingerboard. I have no idea why to this day but every year like clockwork do a retest on the lattice rung/BM2k and seem to be able to add a few more kilos. It drops off if I don't go bouldering but after a few weeks of bouldering will be back. Very weird because in all other aspects strength and power is my big weakness but the fingers are just out there doing their own thing apparently. Would be interesting to know if anyone else experienced this sort of thing.

Not the same, but similar. I put a massive block of fingerboard training in over 2020 and got down to a quasi bodyweight hang on the BM2K on my left arm half crimp (added 1.25kg on harness, took 1.25kg off with a pulley). Could do right arm with 1.25kg taken off. I could also do similar weights on a 3 finger drag on that edge. Didn't do much in the way of max hangs for the rest of 2021 as life got in the way. Have started again recently and have quickly got back to where I was, even proper bodyweight hang with no assistance on the 3FD hangs. I've been surprised how quickly this has come back, but climbed a lot on a steep board in autumn 2021 which is probably why.

Meanwhile, my strength is appalling; I can't even lock off one armed on a bar at the moment. I am attempting to address this with some more concerted work on my arms (max pullups, assisted lock offs, negatives etc). I did also notice this in the autumn sport climbing, where I think my arms were getting tired before my fingers were. Looks like its a diet of pullups and weights for me this spring but I think theres a limit to how strong my weedy arms can get!

[Duma]

How much do you people who can easily get to one arm hangs weigh?


Also the idea that one arm hangs should be correlated with strength and power (as we talk about them in climbing) seems odd to me. "Strength and power" are more about upper arms and shoulders, along with contact strength, whereas a one arm hang is a static load on the fingers on a single joint edge.

[spidermonkey09]

How much do you people who can easily get to one arm hangs weigh?


Also the idea that one arm hangs should be correlated with strength and power (as we talk about them in climbing) seems odd to me. "Strength and power" are more about upper arms and shoulders, along with contact strength, whereas a one arm hang is a static load on the fingers on a single joint edge.

Yeah I don't think a one arm hang could be called power by any stretch, guess finger strength is one of the many moving parts involved in what we call strength though?

I'm pretty light, 59kg, so maybe my fingers are actually piss weak considering they haven't got to lift much. Think being slight definitely works against me in the 'big muscle group' department though.

[teestub]

Meanwhile, my strength is appalling; I can't even lock off one armed on a bar at the moment. I am attempting to address this with some more concerted work on my arms (max pullups, assisted lock offs, negatives etc). I did also notice this in the autumn sport climbing, where I think my arms were getting tired before my fingers were. Looks like its a diet of pullups and weights for me this spring but I think theres a limit to how strong my weedy arms can get!

Looks like you’ve had some success on some pretty powerful boulders recently, so they’re must be some strength in those arms and shoulders!

[Bradders]

I'm pretty light, 59kg

Urgh, sickening.

As a comparison I'm c. 78kg and my recent best was taking off 8kg on my left hand, so if I weighed the same as you I'd be adding quite a lot of weight to my one arm hang! 

There's loads going on with this, for instance I've been interested recently in Tyler Nelson's work on tendon point attachments and how that plays into the simple classic lever lengths involved, and how that correlates to finger strength.

[Wellsy]

I think finger strength relates to power in climbing in the sense that generating power from shitty holds and weird positions is easier when you have stronger fingers.

I can lock off on a bar for a few seconds (3-4 left arm, 5-6 right) and I'm probably specifically a little weak in terms of raw power generation (I can't do better than 1-3-5 on the campus board) but I tend to find I can generate power off tiny holds better than some other people I know who can generate more power from a jug or a bar than me.

Weight as always is a key factor, I'm 75-76kgs and bar lockoffs are hard, I suspect if you're 60kgs they're just naturally way easier.

[Duma]

I'm pretty light, 59kg, so maybe my fingers are actually piss weak considering they haven't got to lift much.

Yeah I think although load relative to BW is what matters for climbing, it seems easier to reach lower absolute loads regardless of BW. you don't see many of the bigger pros adding 30kg to their one arm hangs on IG!

There's loads going on with this, for instance I've been interested recently in Tyler Nelson's work on tendon point attachments and how that plays into the simple classic lever lengths involved, and how that correlates to finger strength.

Not sure how that would make much difference for hangs? Can see the argument for one arm pull ups.

[spidermonkey09]

Urgh, sickening.

As a comparison I'm c. 78kg and my recent best was taking off 8kg on my left hand, so if I weighed the same as you I'd be adding quite a lot of weight to my one arm hang! 

There's loads going on with this, for instance I've been interested recently in Tyler Nelson's work on tendon point attachments and how that plays into the simple classic lever lengths involved, and how that correlates to finger strength.

Definitely a sport climbers build! I don't doubt your fingers are stronger; although presumably it isn't quite as simple as it seems, hence why people use the % of bodyweight as a measure in an effort to standardise it a bit?

Looks like you’ve had some success on some pretty powerful boulders recently, so they’re must be some strength in those arms and shoulders!

Just about enough maybe! I am generally really, really shit at compression stuff so would be interesting to try a harder problem in that style to see how i got on. Willing to bet I'd be quite average!

[Wellsy]

I'm pretty light, 59kg, so maybe my fingers are actually piss weak considering they haven't got to lift much.

Yeah I think although load relative to BW is what matters for climbing, it seems easier to reach lower absolute loads regardless of BW. you don't see many of the bigger pros adding 30kg to their one arm hangs on IG!

There's loads going on with this, for instance I've been interested recently in Tyler Nelson's work on tendon point attachments and how that plays into the simple classic lever lengths involved, and how that correlates to finger strength.

Not sure how that would make much difference for hangs? Can see the argument for one arm pull ups.

I'm a hundred percent certain that tendon attachment points, finger length and so on would make a big difference to one's inherent finger strength capability and maximum.

[Bradders]

Not sure how that would make much difference for hangs? Can see the argument for one arm pull ups.

In the fingers, not the arms...

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CYt-lmfppoy/?utm_medium=copy_link

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CYooAUqJcTB/?utm_medium=copy_link

Although to be fair, the principles are the same in terms of the lengths of your levers.

[teestub]

Just about enough maybe! I am generally really, really shit at compression stuff so would be interesting to try a harder problem in that style to see how i got on. Willing to bet I'd be quite average!

Think Will was keen to try Jason’s although not sure if that’s still the case, doesn’t get much more squeezy 😄

[MischaHY]

How much do you people who can easily get to one arm hangs weigh?


Also the idea that one arm hangs should be correlated with strength and power (as we talk about them in climbing) seems odd to me. "Strength and power" are more about upper arms and shoulders, along with contact strength, whereas a one arm hang is a static load on the fingers on a single joint edge.

Currently 82.5kg after being in deliberate calorie surplus for the last two months where I've been doing a strength/power phase. I'm now winding down the calories but will be keeping the weight at the same level with a weight vest as it drops in order to maintain that advantage whilst getting a little lighter. I won't get much lighter but easily 2-3KG just from reduced water weight/gut content and a little body fat.

My current PB one armed is +13.1KG on the Lattice rung - this was at a bodyweight of 79KG so total 92.1KG. This was in open crimp rather than half crimp - I've recently started using half and full crimp a lot more and can do bodyweight for 10 seconds plus with a half crimp now so will retest that at some point towards the start of the season after tapering.

For what it's worth I think shoulder/scapular engagement has a huge effect on one arm hangs. I can't touch a one arm hang if my shoulders are tired.

[Fiend]

As a comparison I'm c. 78kg at 6'3" or something like that

Urgh, sickening.

[Fultonius]

How much do you people who can easily get to one arm hangs weigh?


Also the idea that one arm hangs should be correlated with strength and power (as we talk about them in climbing) seems odd to me. "Strength and power" are more about upper arms and shoulders, along with contact strength, whereas a one arm hang is a static load on the fingers on a single joint edge.

Currently 82.5kg after being in deliberate calorie surplus for the last two months where I've been doing a strength/power phase. I'm now winding down the calories but will be keeping the weight at the same level with a weight vest as it drops in order to maintain that advantage whilst getting a little lighter. I won't get much lighter but easily 2-3KG just from reduced water weight/gut content and a little body fat.

My current PB one armed is +13.1KG on the Lattice rung - this was at a bodyweight of 79KG so total 92.1KG. This was in open crimp rather than half crimp - I've recently started using half and full crimp a lot more and can do bodyweight for 10 seconds plus with a half crimp now so will retest that at some point towards the start of the season after tapering.

For what it's worth I think shoulder/scapular engagement has a huge effect on one arm hangs. I can't touch a one arm hang if my shoulders are tired.

I know you climb quite hard, but precisely how hard?  Good numbers!

[MischaHY]

How much do you people who can easily get to one arm hangs weigh?


Also the idea that one arm hangs should be correlated with strength and power (as we talk about them in climbing) seems odd to me. "Strength and power" are more about upper arms and shoulders, along with contact strength, whereas a one arm hang is a static load on the fingers on a single joint edge.

Currently 82.5kg after being in deliberate calorie surplus for the last two months where I've been doing a strength/power phase. I'm now winding down the calories but will be keeping the weight at the same level with a weight vest as it drops in order to maintain that advantage whilst getting a little lighter. I won't get much lighter but easily 2-3KG just from reduced water weight/gut content and a little body fat.

My current PB one armed is +13.1KG on the Lattice rung - this was at a bodyweight of 79KG so total 92.1KG. This was in open crimp rather than half crimp - I've recently started using half and full crimp a lot more and can do bodyweight for 10 seconds plus with a half crimp now so will retest that at some point towards the start of the season after tapering.

For what it's worth I think shoulder/scapular engagement has a huge effect on one arm hangs. I can't touch a one arm hang if my shoulders are tired.

I know you climb quite hard, but precisely how hard?  Good numbers!

Not that hard. My deadhang numbers aren't representative of grade at all. Strength/power/PE is way lower.

[Fiend]

I can't remember Fiend, have you climbed much on the Culm, and Baggy.

Better for strong calves perhaps, rather than fingers.

I've done a bit at Baggy, Blackchurch, Cow And Calf, Dyer's Lookout, Screda Point, Speke's Mill Mouth, Brownspear Point, Gull Rock Marsland, Cornakey, Vicarage Cliff, Hippa Rock, Lower Sharpnose, Sandy Mouth, Maer Cliff, Compass Point and Bude Pillars. I got really into it several years ago, both for the style and it being a beautiful coastline to explore. It's a great and distinctive style that can sometimes feel reassuringly positive and wire-laced, and sometimes dishearteningly blank and run-out depending on one's emotional composure. There's definitely a few more things I'd like to do down there but I do find myself increasingly drawn to the diversity of The Atlantic Coast, Torbay, and North Wales sea-cliffs instead.

Might try to concoct an on-topic post later but it all seems a bit academic for someone is trying to hard to stop falling to bits that Liamhutch98's talk of 10 finger training sessions a week might as well be gobbledegook transmitted from beyond Saturn