[petejh]

So legendary. Wonder exactly how true all that stuff is.

He certainly sounds like he was at the cutting edge BITD.

The person I sometimes climb with confirms CP was an exceptional talent and basically went around onsighting everything, or trying to! I think I remember he told me that he held his ropes on onsight of Zero but I’d need to confirm.

[mrjonathanr]

The guy I sometimes climb with confirms CP was truly an exceptional talent and basically went around onsighting everything, or trying to! I think I remember he told me that he held his ropes on onsight of Zero but I’d need to confirm.

Suicide Wall?

[petejh]

Yep

[mrjonathanr]

Scary.

[Neil F]

I think I remember he told me that he held his ropes on onsight of Zero but I’d need to confirm.

I've got a Zero story, from 19/6/83.

I'd gone to Suicide Wall with Tim Freeman.  I led Capital Punnishment in one pitch, which was great, and then we went soloing.  We tandem soloed Route 1 and Route 2 and I then soloed Death Row, before deciding that was probably enough soloing for one day...

Andy Pollitt was on the crag, and had spent all day on Zero.  I think he'd abbed and cleaned it, and then tried to lead it, but got shut down by a sequence at half height.  He abbed it again, still couldn't see how to do it and declared it impossible, saying something must have fallen off it since Livesey's first ascent. (I think Andy was going for the first repeat).

Anyway, for some strange reason Andy asked me if I would have a go on a rope, just to confirm his conclusion, and some other strange reason, I agreed.

Much to Andy's surprise (and my disappointment) I did it first go.  Andy was surprised because he thought it was impossible, and I was disappointed because I though it was actually only 6a and I'd lost the opportunity to on sight something which felt like it should have been a realistic possibility.

But I'll give you one guess as to who it was that got his act together, returning the following day to grab the coveted second ascent (and further cement his rock star reputation...) 

[Duncan campbell]

I think I remember he told me that he held his ropes on onsight of Zero but I’d need to confirm.

I've got a Zero story, from 19/6/83.

I'd gone to Suicide Wall with Tim Freeman.  I led Capital Punnishment in one pitch, which was great, and then we went soloing.  We tandem soloed Route 1 and Route 2 and I then soloed Death Row, before deciding that was probably enough soloing for one day...

Andy Pollitt was on the crag, and had spent all day on Zero.  I think he'd abbed and cleaned it, and then tried to lead it, but got shut down by a sequence at half height.  He abbed it again, still couldn't see how to do it and declared it impossible, saying something must have fallen off it since Livesey's first ascent. (I think Andy was going for the first repeat).

Anyway, for some strange reason Andy asked me if I would have a go on a rope, just to confirm his conclusion, and some other strange reason, I agreed.

Much to Andy's surprise (and my disappointment) I did it first go.  Andy was surprised because he thought it was impossible, and I was disappointed because I though it was actually only 6a and I'd lost the opportunity to on sight something which felt like it should have been a realistic possibility.

But I'll give you one guess as to who it was that got his act together, returning the following day to grab the coveted second ascent (and further cement his rock star reputation...) 

You’ll always be a rock start to me Neil! 

[remus]

Will Remus start making a list for this? Finally we are out of the redpoint lists and onto the good ones! (eh Mr Fiend!?) 

I might have to take a cold shower!!

Such a remuslist has been a long time coming.

I'm very tempted but it's particularly difficult if you try and narrow down the exact style of ascent. Maybe if we could work out some easy to judge criteria for inclusion on the list?

[petejh]

That's a great story Neil! The fine margins between who ends up being considered one of the 'elite' or the 'chasing pack'.

[Duncan campbell]

So legendary. Wonder exactly how true all that stuff is.

He certainly sounds like he was at the cutting edge BITD.

The person I sometimes climb with confirms CP was an exceptional talent and basically went around onsighting everything, or trying to! I think I remember he told me that he held his ropes on onsight of Zero but I’d need to confirm.

Ah yes I wasn’t disbelieving the zero thing more just the eating nothing, climbing lots of hard routes onsight in a day like that. I’m not even disbelieving that. Just wonder how much is bang on.

My money's on Dougie Hall.

I remember Dougie telling me a story which I’m sure I have recounted on another thread. He was talking to Pete Gomersall and Dougie said he’d been to Blue Scar and done a route up the wall where Death Wish, Great white go. Pete went a bit pale and enquired when Dougie had done it. Doug gave a date and Pete then said he done this route the week before.
Doug in recounting the tale said this was strange as it was heavily chalked to crux then no chalk above. Doug with a wink said I know who did it first.
I wish I could remember which route it was.

Such a legend. His bit in the power of climbing is ace. Met him in oz a few years back - just one of many legends of yore we were lucky enough to meet on that trip. Was such a sound, psyched guy!

[nik at work]

Dougie told me a few years ago that he onsighted Hollow Man back in the day. Dunno what day it was back in though…

[remus]

Dougie told me a few years ago that he onsighted Hollow Man back in the day. Dunno what day it was back in though…

Andy Pollitt got the second ascent "6 years after Redhead" (from a UKC article), so sometime after 1986 I assume.

[mrjonathanr]

Grant Farquhar did a few early 90s I think. maybe The Brat did too.

[Adam Lincoln]

So legendary. Wonder exactly how true all that stuff is.

He certainly sounds like he was at the cutting edge BITD.

The person I sometimes climb with confirms CP was an exceptional talent and basically went around onsighting everything, or trying to! I think I remember he told me that he held his ropes on onsight of Zero but I’d need to confirm.

Is this person Jo Bertalot? I can’t remember the story but think CP pretty much onsighted Requiem at Dumby. Or maybe fell off right at the top. Way back in the day….

[Nails]

Pollitt did the first ascent of Hollow Man, second ascent of The Bells.

[Stabbsy]

So legendary. Wonder exactly how true all that stuff is.

The eating bit sounds true. I met him at Malham, mid to late 90s at a guess. He was climbing with the Barrow Lads, who I knew from Ingleton wall so chatted to them a bit. His food for the day? A tin of sweetcorn.

The only other thing I remember was his ethics around having clips in for the redpoint. He’d failed on something on the LHS of the catwalk, took the clips out and then placed clips again on his next attempt. “Proper” redpointing as defined in that Mick Ryan article that got mentioned up the page.

[petejh]

Adam, yep JB.

[Fultonius]

So legendary. Wonder exactly how true all that stuff is.

He certainly sounds like he was at the cutting edge BITD.

The person I sometimes climb with confirms CP was an exceptional talent and basically went around onsighting everything, or trying to! I think I remember he told me that he held his ropes on onsight of Zero but I’d need to confirm.

Is this person Jo Bertalot? I can’t remember the story but think CP pretty much onsighted Requiem at Dumby. Or maybe fell off right at the top. Way back in the day….

I've heard this story from a few sources. The story goes he was basically a few moves from the top of the onsight (E8 mind!) and came off. As far as I'm aware it would have been the second ascent? Or certainly an early repeat and he decided that was it and never got back on it.

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=6892.0

Alas, it is unfortunately just the stuff of legend according to his belayer:

I belayed Craig when he tried to ground up Requiem back in 1998. It was an impressive display of climbing even by Parnaby standards. His 1st attempt ended half way up the crack with him shouting "End of a dream! End of a dream!"

On his 2nd attempt he got to the top of the crack but came off getting established on the head wall above this. On his 3rd attempt on day 2 he cruised all the way to the top only to find that the top was wet as it had started to rain.

After spending a few minutes hanging onto wet basalt Craig shouted down in his best Victor Meldrew impression that "he couldn't believe it" and casually down climbed to his last runner and lowered off. He said that he couldn't be bothered trying again as he had had too many goes and that was that!

I've never seen as impressive on-sight climber as Parnaby, he was a legend back in the 90's......

[Neil F]

I think there's every chance it will have been Dougie.  He was another one who just got on with it, never making a fuss.

I know he on sighted Bucket Dynasty at Dove.  Pretty sure that was with Ian Carr.  I'll ask Ian if he has a record of the date.

Neil

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Re The Bells, I'd heard rumours of an ab nearby by Andy. Don't know how true that is. Others who've claimed The Bells on-sight have had High gear in The Cad. Would be good to know more about Mike Owen's ascent, Hollow Man etc.

As mentioned above, the interpretation of on-sight has shifted a lot. When standard practice was simply walking up to the route with a rack and setting off, some prior knowledge was often part of the preparation. On-sight just meant you hadn't been on it before, and if you didn't fall off, you'd flashed it too.

Interpretations have changed at the other/this end too, with routes being claimed with pads that didn't have them before.
I think it will be an interesting exercise in working out how to interpret things historically. Included in that will be the way that routes get graded differently, with many older routes getting established with far less preparation/inspection than is the norm now.

I repeated (2nd ascent) Littlejohn's route Lazarus at Bass Point in '89. (There with Andy Popp, Nick White, Pat, Dave Burrel and others.) It was given E7 at the time, and some have claimed that in the UKC log books. It's clearly not, but interesting from a grade without prior knowledge perspective. I managed to snap a hold off after the crux, and was so gutted. Sport grade wise, it's probably pretty lowly. E6,6b and 7b. I didn't bother pulling my ropes, so a one fall yoyo, which is another important consideration.

Thinking about routes like Strawberries, where a fall might be expected, I'd be inclined to think that the grade of E7 is given in the context of a "no falls" ascent. I can imagine there's a five sport grade difference between say a route like that above and others of it's ilk, and something like Requiem. Different worlds.

General awareness of other key ingredients of a particular route would also have a bearing on what was considered "good style". Without the opportunity to "video point", word of mouth helped establish a route's mystique and mythical status.

[mrjonathanr]

Would be good to know more about Mike Owen's ascent, Hollow Man etc.

http://mikeowenfrance.blogspot.com/2013/09/what-do-steve-boote-climbing-hangar-and.html

[andy moles]

Will Remus start making a list for this? Finally we are out of the redpoint lists and onto the good ones! (eh Mr Fiend!?) 

I might have to take a cold shower!!

Such a remuslist has been a long time coming.

I'm very tempted but it's particularly difficult if you try and narrow down the exact style of ascent. Maybe if we could work out some easy to judge criteria for inclusion on the list?

With the vagaries of memory and interpretation, teasing apart onsight and flash would be nigh on impossible, so just allow both with a note on style where known?

Think you'd have to allow everything right up to the most cynical style of beta-plunder flash, so long as there was no actual pre-practice, otherwise again teasing it apart would be impossible.

Another problem is for men if you make the cut-off grade E7 the list will be endless, while E8 becomes a very small club.

[Adam Lincoln]

Adam, yep JB.

Ive heard the stories off him too. Jaw dropping some of them.

[andy popp]

The Phoenix (13a so E6ish?) in ‘84.

Wouldn't that be 7c+, in theory - pretty tough E6? 

[shark]

The Phoenix was famously a flash. Amazing news when he did it but not an onsight. He even had the specific gear racked in order.

[jwi]

The Phoenix (13a so E6ish?) in ‘84.

Wouldn't that be 7c+, in theory - pretty tough E6?

A friend who’s onsighted or flashed a bunch of 8a-8b cracks in the US did not manage to onsight Phoenix and thought it was particularly tricky for a crack.