[DAVETHOMAS90]

What fell off caveman Dave? And when? Pitch 2 as in the crux bit into the niche hanging belay?

Hi Ged.
Part of the big red hanging flake, as you leave the niche. Would be cool if it requires a jump now! 

Go do it! And New Stone Age which is ace.

The Flaming Drambuie (direct) requires a bolt or two 

All of this is very off topic of course.

[cwaddy]

Some other early contenders are; Isis is angry, Birdy  (cilan head though I can't remember what grade it was given at the time. Might have been hard XS or something like that), Hardback Thesaurus. All reported as onsight at the time though obviously included falls at least on Hardback. All FAs as well. And all from mid to late 80s  I think. Also I'm pretty sure the Scoop was onsighted on the first few repeats and all ( including the crux )but the top pitch on the first ascent.

There could be some debate over the grades of some of these. Hardback being top end though. The most impressive piece of climbing I ever saw,, followed instantly by the least impressive bit of protecting of the second. I was not pleased by that as I had held the *****   ****s/visionary genius's ropes for several hours over a few days and I was keen to get an idea what it was all about but the fall for the second was potentially as dangerous as it was for him.

[Duncan campbell]

Was this because JD didn’t put any/much gear in the traverse on T-Rex? Or was it due to all the shit gear?

Has hardback been repeated?

[remus]

Has hardback been repeated?

Twid has repeated it (according to the gogarth wiki).

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Some other early contenders are...

I had held the *****   ****s/visionary genius's ropes for several hours over a few days and I was keen to get an idea what it was all about but the fall for the second was potentially as dangerous as it was for him.

Sorry, I can work out the second word, but still stuck on the first Your solo of Dreadnought was impressively cool. There was a lot more of that sort of thing going on back then, wasn't there? Very Waddy   

Oh.. and I meant to ask, when was Enchanted repeated?

[mrjonathanr]

the fall for the second was potentially as dangerous as it was for him.

I don’t get why the route traverses left at that point. Wouldn’t it make more sense to belay up right at the top of T Rex pitch 1?

[cwaddy]

When he got to the T-rex traverse he decided on the spur of the moment to go left, thinking of finishing up golden bough, which may still have had a rest point, IIRC. But he didn't put any gear in the traverse so the second,  (Bob Drury- I was watching from the promontory where Al Hughes was filming, but I was hoping to second it) was going to face an ever nastier 30ft swing into the corner of T rex. That's why I declined... But at least it wasn't near the top of the Ogre in a storm, a la Doug Scott.

[Duncan campbell]

Was that horrifying sound thing Come to Mother that JD and Paul Pritch done onsight and E7? Sounds properly harrowing that.

Did you ever onsight E7, Crispin?

[andy popp]

I believe Come to Mother was legitimately onsight.

[IanP]

I believe Come to Mother was legitimately onsight.

May be difficult to confirm the grade these days 

[DAVETHOMAS90]

And Professor Whittaker?

I've heard of some discussion of the grade since, but as with all these things, subsequent ascensionists will benefit from info from the first ascent.. steer clear of etc.

[IanP]

And Professor Whittaker?

I've heard of some discussion of the grade since, but as with all these things, subsequent ascensionists will benefit from info from the first ascent.. steer clear of etc.

Just to be clear I wasn't questioning the grade, more the mixture of commitment and madness required to os first ascent of this sort of stuff.

[mrjonathanr]

When he got to the T-rex traverse he decided on the spur of the moment to go left, thinking of finishing up golden bough, which may still have had a rest point, IIRC. But he didn't put any gear in the traverse so the second,  (Bob Drury- I was watching from the promontory where Al Hughes was filming, but I was hoping to second it) was going to face an ever nastier 30ft swing into the corner of T rex. That's why I declined... But at least it wasn't near the top of the Ogre in a storm, a la Doug Scott.

Thanks Crispín. To be fair, the gear in the traverse isn’t very worthwhile, but I wouldn’t have wanted to be Bob finishing the last few moves facing that lob.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

In case of confusion, from Franco's Headpoint Article:

I think that in this context, On-sight, meaning ground up without practice is important. Whether flashed or not, much less so.

Professor Whitaker?

From 1988:

Hardback Thesaurus E7 6b, Gogarth, North Wales, first ascent, French 7c climbing and skyhook protection in the upper part, climbed without pre-inspection. Dawes took a 70’ near ground fall on one of his numerous attempts.

Professor Whittaker E7 6b 6a, Lleyn Peninsula, North Wales, first ascent, climbed without pre-inspection. Long runouts off bodyweight gear placements.

Then there's The Scoop on Strone.

[grimer]

JD did some E7 thing near Path to Rome, which i think got E7. I did PtR with Adam Wainwright, who may or may not have been involved in FA. AW described PW as looking ok. JD had a monster hangover - as in salty dry mouth, can hardly speak type thing - as well as a fraction of a rack. What ensued, from what I can tell, was a full-bore E7 onsight lead bu Johnny.

The fact that subsequent ascensionist arrived sober, and with a full rack, and downgraded it to E4 doesn't take away from the fact that on the day KD pulled out a lead every bit as impressive as Hardback!

[Fiend]

JD did some E7 thing near Path to Rome, which i think got E7.

Quite possibly the same PW you're referring to??

[grimer]

yes i think so

[SA Chris]

The fact that subsequent ascensionist arrived sober, and with a full rack, and downgraded it to E4 doesn't take away from the fact that on the day KD pulled out a lead every bit as impressive as Hardback!

Big grades for bad conditions

[Duncan campbell]

I’m gonna start doing more E3s hungover with a minimal rack and get me some more E6 ticks

[grimer]

Well, I may have some facts wrong (it's only a story, remember), but please feel free to go and do Professor Whittaker with a few nuts and hexes and a rotten hangover and you can have a couple of spare grades. Your only disappointment will be that you lose half a point for not doing it as an onsight first ascent.

[Duncan campbell]

I was just messing- certainly won’t be heading up prof. Whittaker with a few nuts hungover or not!

Defo didn’t mean to come across as a dick there but reading back I do. So sozzles

Remember doing Byzantium at Craig Doris with a normal single rack of cams (plus normal double set of wites) and after the bold initial slab just had a single cam between me and the deck. Serendipitously each break took a different size of cam so could ration them to a cam per break and topped out with all/most of my wires and no cams. Spoke to rob greenwad about it after and he said he’d had a triple rack of cams!! Felt pretty spice for E4!

[grimer]

Sorry Dunc was messing too :-)

[SA Chris]

You're both dicks but in a good way.

After all UKB is just 8 or so boulderers arguing about grades, right Grimer?

[Johnny Brown]

Yeah I think I was on Path to Rome when Professor got repeated. E4/5 was mooted, 'must have been having a really bad day'.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

UKB is just 8 or so boulderers arguing about grades, right Grimer?

That's a bit vague isn't it. Is that like 8/9/9+?