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Re: Is having to prove your vaccine status ok? Ethically, not epidemiologically (Read 4128 times)

LozT

  • Guest
Hi all, back here to wade in on the debate, in a nice way 💪

Am I right in thinking that the ‘vaccines’ do little to prevent catching and transmitting covid and as new strains develop seem to be less effective generally?

This would make vaccine passports seem odd.

I know many NHS staff and others who had both vaccines and some have had a booster. Some staff had very horrible reactions to shots 1 and 2 and understandably feel scared of the booster. They will also face job loss in April.

How many vaccines are people ok to take? Many places have at least 4 doses if not 5 in the pipeline.

I don’t think we can say the vaccines are safe at all. As already mentioned on here the number of clotting disorders due to the vaccine is noticeable in outpatient clinics. Much of the collateral damage from the vaccines has been ignored or censored by the government - corporate partnerships and its media outlets. This is not ok. A close relative of mine had a stroke within 24hrs of the booster and is incredibly resentful. While others have heart problems, bleeding disorders, neurological and autoimmune problems linked to the vaccine.

Covid is a very horrible illness for some people no doubt. The evidence seems to suggest that it was manufactured in a lab with funding from the same people who had invested in the vaccine technology. Specifically to increase transmissibility and seemingly to target ACE2 receptors which seem associated with the clotting issues. Yet there is zero accountability it seems and the people who were involved are profiting from what appears at least to be unintended genocide. Surely these are the questions we should be asking, not bickering over what amounts to be a totalitarian control measure.

Another question is why are our hospitals struggling so much, why when my relative had a stroke after the vaccine was there no ambulances and they were queuing outside a&e treating people in the ambulance line. Why has there been a big rise in cardiac and clotting disorders. Is it just covid? I doubt it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AllysonPollock/status/1458729432869490689

LozT

  • Guest

LozT

  • Guest
Hi all, back here to wade in on the debate, in a nice way 💪

Am I right in thinking that the ‘vaccines’ do little to prevent catching and transmitting covid and as new strains develop seem to be less effective generally?

[further drivel disguised as “honest questions” deleted]

Voila! Why vaccine pass might be necessary to minimise the impact of imbecille conspiracy nuts like these.

They are honest questions.

How many doses are you willing to take?

The nhs staff will require 3 for those who need to be up to date, and then from then on 2 annual boosters.

The gain of function research in Wuhan on bat coronavirus funded in part by the NIH and worked on by American, British and Chinese scientists is knowledge in the public sphere.


LozT

  • Guest
I did wonder. Why don't you just post under your own name?

(though I suppose it's possible it's not Dan at all, just some lurker who's watched previous Dan incarnations. Who knows really?)

I don’t want to if that’s cool by you. Just at helsby actually. Chilly day but great conditions!

LozT

  • Guest
👍🏻

This is an interesting testimony given by an Israeli MIT prof who was affected by censorship when trying to warn of cardiac signals.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1456965247558893575

LozT

  • Guest
Which claims would you like to disprove Pete? I can try and provide clear evidence whenever possible although I’m not sure that extends to my fathers CT head

LozT

  • Guest
Peter Doshi BMJ editor talking about the covid vaccine safety and efficacy

https://mobile.twitter.com/ruben_deherdt/status/1455976583009873928

LozT

  • Guest
Testimonies on the vaccine mandates including some of those injured in the vaccine trials who in their words were ‘ghosted’ by the manufacturers.


LozT

  • Guest
There is quite a poor IMO longitudinal study in the lancet that shows effectiveness at reducing catching the delta variant however when there is a breakthrough infection ‘peak viral load’ was shown to be the same in fully vaccinated and unvaccinated persons.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

Regarding mortality the U.K. is currently running at a 15% excess mortality rate which has been more or less consistent for a few months. I believe the current weeks breakdown is about half of the 1200 deaths were related to covid. So there certainly does appear to be ‘bodies piling up’

Edit - the authors of the lancet study suggested that this meant fully vaccinated individuals could just as readily transmit covid as the unvaccinated. This was apparent in my office recently when there was a covid outbreak of the fully vaccinated

LozT

  • Guest

Regarding mortality the U.K. is currently running at a 15% excess mortality rate which has been more or less consistent for a few months. I believe the current weeks breakdown is about half of the 1200 deaths were related to covid. So there certainly does appear to be ‘bodies piling up’


Weekly deaths would appear to be c.10,000-12,000 total from this data https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales so you’re accidentally out by a factor of 10, with there being 1,000 covid deaths last week.

The last time I looked it was data from the 22nd Oct which was as I said it was. You can trace the excess back over the weeks. Thanks for the update though, it looks like the booster program is really reducing those numbers now.

LozT

  • Guest
There is quite a poor IMO longitudinal study in the lancet that shows effectiveness at reducing catching the delta variant however when there is a breakthrough infection ‘peak viral load’ was shown to be the same in fully vaccinated and unvaccinated persons.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

Regarding mortality the U.K. is currently running at a 15% excess mortality rate which has been more or less consistent for a few months. I believe the current weeks breakdown is about half of the 1200 deaths were related to covid. So there certainly does appear to be ‘bodies piling up’

Edit - the authors of the lancet study suggested that this meant fully vaccinated individuals could just as readily transmit covid as the unvaccinated. This was apparent in my office recently when there was a covid outbreak of the fully vaccinated

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-on-household-transmission-of-sars-cov-2-looking-at-vaccination-status-and-variant-type

The conclusion you draw appears to be incorrect re: peak viral load = same transmission overall etc. Anyway it seems you have an agenda and it won't matter if the data contradicts you.

That appears different from the interpretation made by the authors of the study who I paraphrase ‘the vaccine reduces risk of getting the virus and speed recovery however a breakthrough case is just as likely to transmit the virus’

And as Fiend says the purpose of the discussion is to understand if the vaccine effectiveness or not, warrants a segregation system for those who don’t want the vaccine or can’t have it

LozT

  • Guest
There is a limited breakdown of excess deaths. The total deaths for the week are presented with data for  2020 and 2015-19.

LozT

  • Guest
It isn’t conspiracy theory to say that all NHS requiring the vaccine under mandate will be asked to have a booster followed by another jab 6 months after. Several politicians, Macron, Dan Andrew’s and their ministers have suggested that they don’t yet know how many jabs people will be required to have.

Some people may be happy to continue having these injections whilst others may not. Considering the evidence for waning effectiveness, acquired natural immunity and the ability of vaccinated people to carry and transmit the virus it seems very harsh to impose segregation based on vaccine status.

In Canada at the moment you have to be fully up to date with Jabs and boosters to access public transport and other amenities. This is for everyone over the age of 12.

The question in my original post was - how many vaccines are you willing to take? 3? 4? 5? 2 per year to keep your job indefinitely. Considering the dubious safety profile this seems (no words)

LozT

  • Guest
I understand that some people in the military have been widely experimented on with a range of drugs. My uncle was in the gulf and given a cocktail which (he felt) severely damaged his health. I have read something to do with this and the anthrax vaccines. He died of heart complications at an early age.

Edit - I think this was known as ‘gulf war syndrome’?

LozT

  • Guest
Considering the dubious safety profile this seems (no words)

I’d consider the ‘dubious safety profile’ were I shown objective evidence of its existence. A talking head on a YT video is not that. Till then I’ll remain a trusting soul.

That’s great for you guys. There are some unfortunate ‘talking heads’ out there that will lose their* jobs and it seems in time their access to a social life, travel, libraries and even healthcare. I can’t imagine what it must feel like for someone that religiously followed all the guidelines had all 3 jabs, then had a stroke on the third, only to be told I’m sorry you can’t go to a restaurant or travel to see family.

LozT

  • Guest
True, it’s probably not good to complicate the issue with complex comparisons.

I do think the ‘long covid’ phenomenon bears a strong relationship to ptsd. A good portion of which has been driven by health policy and ‘advertising’.

Going back to the original point Mark20 was making, the measures seem divisive and excessive at best and at worst the start of something a lot more sinister.

In Austria from Sunday the unvaccinated are the ‘untermensch’ and its unreal to see it being applauded by the progressive liberal class.




LozT

  • Guest
School staff asked to call the police if unvaccinated teachers arrive to work in NZ

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10193565/New-Zealand-schools-urged-call-COPS-unvaccinated-teachers-up.html

In NSW Australia if you are over the age of 16 there are a whole range of things you cannot do if unvaccinated including leisure time with friends and access to libraries and other public facilities. You are also unable to get a hair cut at a hairdressers

https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/stay-safe/rules/not-fully-vaccinated


LozT

  • Guest
Historically when segregation measures have been implemented there is a significant minority support and a majority of indifference. It wouldn’t be good to make everyone’s life difficult, just create a class of people which can be scapegoated for a range of societies ills.

LozT

  • Guest
I know several people who are in the position of being unable to take another vaccine at work and in my personal life. That is hard for them as they will be significantly affected by upcoming mandates.

What ‘conspiracy’ am I pushing? I’ve posted the opinion of Peter Doshi the deputy editor of the BMJ (now removed by YouTube) I’ve posted a link to injured participants from the vaccine trials and I have posted a link to an MIT professor censored for trying to alert health bodies about cardiac signals. Apart from that the original link by Mark was to do with highlighting authoritarian measures. What is happening is not ok and if it continues will be awful for you guys too and seemingly has little to do with health.
If you are concerned about ‘overwhelming’ the nhs then covid is a red herring. The dismantling and privatisation agenda is in full swing and this is a perfect opportunity.


LozT

  • Guest
Cheers Dan for derailing the thread from a reasoned debate about the ethics of vaccine passports and restrictions, to your usual disingenuous, click bait, conspiracy bollocks

What click bait Mark? I’ve expressed my concerns to you in person in way less moderate terms than on here. It’s ok if you don’t want to be associated with those concerns. I get that. As for disingenuous you know my personal situation and how it’s affected me. I had to reach out even to be allowed on here to express this.

LozT

  • Guest
I’m sure it will be fine for a time, maybe even nice that it’s quiet or offers a feeling of safety as you don’t have to socialise with the ‘unvaxxed’. I see the Danes have been putting some entertainment on with water cannons and tear gas. You could enjoy the show whilst sipping from your craft beer?

LozT

  • Guest

LozT

  • Guest
Hey Matt, Peter Doshi’s statement about vaccine mandates is now viewable here. He is the deputy editor of the British Medical Journal, not ‘click bait’ and worth a watch.

https://odysee.com/@JWild:6/Peter-Doshi-BMJ:d

LozT

  • Guest
Weird that this is on some random website and not on The BMJ.

Yes I agree it is weird isn’t it.



 

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