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Brandenburg Gate finally falls (Read 27634 times)

Ru

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#50 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 07, 2021, 10:19:27 pm
There isn't any logical reason to finish at the Mecca belay. I'm sure it is only because there is actually a belay there. When I was trying MIF and replacing some of the old bolts I did consider installing an alternative belay on some really good jugs up the line of 28 horizontal to the number 30 on that topo.

That's where Gaskins envisaged finishing if I remember rightly. He was climbing up to a crab on a bolt by the jugs there.

kc

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#51 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 07, 2021, 10:27:36 pm
Yes I think your right. Those DMM eco bolts did appear whilst he was trying it, however they also go up to the the main break.

36chambers

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#52 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 07, 2021, 10:43:36 pm
what are the odds on this getting a repeat before Mutation gets another ascent?

remus

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#53 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 07, 2021, 11:08:20 pm
Looks like 9a+ is the grade, and footage available tomorrow morning

DAVETHOMAS90

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#54 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 12:35:58 am
Wow :icon_beerchug:
Everyone can stop now, that's rock climbing completed.

 ;D This is amazing.
..

Oh yeah, and someone unified particle physics and general relativity. Worth a mention.

Edit. Thinking about it's proximity to Hubble, a particle physics reference would be quite cool.
The Graviton ;)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 12:56:58 am by DAVETHOMAS90 »

Fiend

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#55 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 07:45:44 am
So not even the hardest route at The Tor, woohoo.

ali k

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#56 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 09:14:01 am
That’s hilarious. Clipping the chains and celebrating after 4 bolts of climbing with the rest of the crag towering above him disappearing off into the distance… :lol:

What a funny sport.

edshakey

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#57 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 09:16:15 am
Not even a sit start?!?! Piece of cake

Looks like 9a+ is the grade, and footage available tomorrow morning

Absolutely cruised it, great stuff

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#58 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 09:19:18 am
That’s hilarious. Clipping the chains and celebrating after 4 bolts of climbing with the rest of the crag towering above him disappearing off into the distance… :lol:

What a funny sport.

An idea reduced to the absurd. I like it.

teestub

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#59 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 09:49:36 am
That’s hilarious. Clipping the chains and celebrating after 4 bolts of climbing with the rest of the crag towering above him disappearing off into the distance… :lol:

What a funny sport.

Also finishing at a belay that’s only there because (if I remember correctly) Basher couldn’t climb what is now Mecca extension, so added a lower belay! Good old sport climbing.

Ru

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#60 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 10:30:22 am
Just seen the video. Looks like a totally logical sequence but being fair  to Gaskins it’s nothing like how he was trying it. John was trying a sequence that involved gastoning the right hand side pull with his left hand to get a very poor undercut in the roof with his right hand. From there the three crux moves were reaching to the undercut  on the lip of the next roof, but taking it as a down pointing pinch, matching that, reaching to the pocket above with left hand, flipping right hand to an undercut and from there the same sequence as Will does. Might have been a height thing as the reach to the pocket from the sidepull looks like it might be a stretch, or might just have been a case of missing the obvious.

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#61 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 10:39:56 am
I have the impression that the best climbers in the early 90s did things with absolutely bonkers sequences because they were bad at climbing. That's why they only did 8c/9a despite having 9c strength.

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#62 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 10:43:31 am
It's almost as if given marginal strength gains post Moon/Smith technique has actually improved. I did think there was no way Gaskins would have used that high heel, although maybe Ru is suggesting he did?

AMorris

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#63 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 10:50:04 am
Fantastic footage of a pretty historic first ascent! Looks like John was right about the grade all along.

Bonjoy

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#64 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 10:58:00 am
It's almost as if given marginal strength gains post Moon/Smith technique has actually improved. I did think there was no way Gaskins would have used that high heel, although maybe Ru is suggesting he did?
This is my reading of the last twenty years. Strength has gone up a bit, technique (and endurance) has gone up quite a lot.

spidermonkey09

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#65 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 10:59:58 am
I have the impression that the best climbers in the early 90s did things with absolutely bonkers sequences because they were bad at climbing. That's why they only did 8c/9a despite having 9c strength.

Is it not more likely that they actually didn't have 9c strength, and that their strength has been in large part mythologised? I suspect the best in the 90s were significantly better at climbing than the rest of their cohort, just like the best now are better at climbing than you or I. If technique has improved present day compared to then (arguable I think, and certainly style dependent), then that's the result of numerous factors.

Edit: technique has obviously improved massively today from the 90s; I just meant I don't take this fact to mean that climbers in the 90s were bad at climbing.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 11:16:49 am by spidermonkey09 »

Bonjoy

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#66 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 11:01:40 am
Just seen the video. Looks like a totally logical sequence but being fair  to Gaskins it’s nothing like how he was trying it. John was trying a sequence that involved gastoning the right hand side pull with his left hand to get a very poor undercut in the roof with his right hand. From there the three crux moves were reaching to the undercut  on the lip of the next roof, but taking it as a down pointing pinch, matching that, reaching to the pocket above with left hand, flipping right hand to an undercut and from there the same sequence as Will does. Might have been a height thing as the reach to the pocket from the sidepull looks like it might be a stretch, or might just have been a case of missing the obvious.
In my experience from trying and often failing to climb new things, it's very easy to get lost in over-complex or just plain bad sequences when you're too weak to climb the sequence which actually works if you have the guns.

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#67 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 11:26:30 am
Re: lack of strength gains since the 90's. Were people 1 arming edges with 20-30kg in their other hand back then?

edit: it seems they all concentrate a lot more on mobility these days too, especially the comp climbers.

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#68 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 11:29:25 am
He makes it look so easy you’d never think it was a last great problem. Surely Ste Mac would have done it years ago if it was really 9a+ though?

I have the impression that the best climbers in the early 90s did things with absolutely bonkers sequences because they were bad at climbing.

An era when using drop knees etc. was considered gay no less.

Fantastic footage

Let’s not get giddy.

gme

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#69 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 11:45:37 am
Great to see this done at last and the legend put to bed,nice one Will for making the effort. Im not that surprised at the grade and would hazard a bet its not that much different to Hubble, certainly looks steady in the footage. Few more ascents and it may settle to 9a.

Other than john i dont think anyone tried it so its hype that stopped it being done. Did Steve ever try it? I know that Ben, Jerry etc didn't and think Malc only had a fondle. Rumors and legends stopped things being done for years in the past, careless Torque and brad pit being two classic examples. Takes someone decent to not listen to the hype and have a go.

Looks link you could link it into Busters thing!!! Raven tor the crag that keeps on giving.

And its nothing to do with technique, climbers are way stronger than the top boys were in the 90s. Much much stronger.

Johnny Brown

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#70 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 11:55:17 am
Let’s not get giddy.

You've got to take it in the context of an embargo debacle surrounding some crap pics of a less newsworthy ascent only a week ago.

And its nothing to do with technique, climbers are way stronger than the top boys were in the 90s. Much much stronger.

Must be 'juicing' then?  :lol:

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#71 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 11:56:58 am
Let’s not get giddy.

Granted it's hardly cinematography at its finest :lol: but after all this time I would have taken Grimer drawing pictures of the ascent on a napkin

abarro81

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#72 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 12:33:37 pm
I hadn't realised it was quite such a LH start to MIF (rather than being more independent)...

Bonjoy

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#73 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 12:42:21 pm

And its nothing to do with technique, climbers are way stronger than the top boys were in the 90s. Much much stronger.
I assume you're being deliberately hyperbolic. It's obviously not an either/or. Both have increased and neither has an agreed on means of measuring relative advancement. So to a great extent it's a matter of opinion which type of improvement you see as being more instrumental in grade advancements. You've obviously pinned your colours to the strength mast to the exclusion of technique being a relevant factor. Having climbed with lots of people way better and way stronger than me for decades I've seen significant gains in both general technique and strength. And I do think yesterday's climbers would have achieved more with a little better technique than today's climbers would with a little extra strength.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 03:11:05 pm by Bonjoy, Reason: Grammar »

cheque

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#74 Re: Brandenburg Gate finally falls
November 08, 2021, 01:03:16 pm

This might help the Tor-uninitiated:



4. Indecent Exposure, 7c
7. The Full Monty, 7c+
10. Body Machine, 7c+
13. An In & Out of Body Experience, 8a
14. Body Builder, 8a+
15. The Prow, 8a
16. The Crucifixion, 8a
17. Proud Whore, 7c+
18. Brazen Strumpet, 8a
19. Jehovakill, 8b+
20. Revelations, 8b
21. Rage, 8b
22. Anger Management, 8a+
23. Rage into Crucifixion, 8b
24. Hubble, 9a
25. The Whore of Babylon, A0/ 8a
26. Brandenburg Gate, 9a+
27. Make it Funky, 8c
28. Mega Whore, 8c
29. Mecca, 8b+
30. Mecca Extension, 8c
31. The Hajj, 8c
32. Kaaba, 8c+
34. Stevolution, 9a

Possibly of further interest, here’s the topo from the 1969 guide.



1. Koran, HVS
2. Hubris, A3
3. Prow Route, A3
4. Brandenburg Gate, A2
5. Mecca, A2
6. Bolt Route, A2
7. Sardine, A3
8. Girdle Traverse, A2

 

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