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Snow tyres vs snow chains Beta - Switzerland (Read 4976 times)

GCW

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Snow tyres vs snow chains Beta - Switzerland
October 31, 2021, 11:25:38 am
We are driving to Switzerland for the first week of December and staying at a ski lodge in Les Collons (altitude around 1800m).

The last bit of the drive up to the resort will be a tricky road and likely snowy.  We've been advised to use snow tyres for this, but they aren't likely to be needed for the other 800+ miles to get there from home.

Any advice on the best approach?
  • Buy snow tyres and use them for the whole trip
  • Hire snow tyres somewhere (UK vs Switzerland) and store the usual tyres somehow
  • Don't bother with snow tyres and use chains instead

We won't be driving much once there, maybe a couple of trips to the supermarket.

cowboyhat

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Do you own a set of normal winter wheels/ tyres for the UK anyway?

I'd have thought best bet would be to just have regular winters on for the drive down and then stick some chains on if needed.

GCW

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No, I haven’t got any winter tyres currently. Just the standard ones that comes with the Volvo XC90.

finbarrr

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if there is more than an inch or two snow on the road, you may need chains anyway (depending on the steepness).
what i remember my swiss friends telling me , is that snow tires are not legally prescribed in switzerland ( as opposed to germany and france), i just asked google), but insurance companies don't pay out if they decide better tires would have made a difference > it's your own fault if you crash on summer tires.

Fultonius

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IIRC you need them in Germany / Austria in any case. Do your current XC 90tyres have an m+s or snowflake symbol?

What's your planned route?

GCW

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IIRC you need them in Germany / Austria in any case. Do your current XC 90tyres have an m+s or snowflake symbol?

not that I can see.  Michelin Pilot Sport 4 SUV 275/45R 20.  A quick Google suggests these are Summer tyres.

Quote
What's your planned route?

Chunnel - Reims - Troyes - Dijon - Lausanne - Martigny - Les Collons.

Fultonius

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Then I would probably just say for a one off, get some chains. Don't skimp too much as the cheap ones are made of cheese and don't last, as I found out the hard way.

Generally I think you're much better off with winter tyres  as they're just generally much grippier in the cold. But up to Martigny the roads are kept pretty clear, so you'll probably be fine.

jwi

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We sometimes need to use chains when crossing the Pyrénées in winter. I really recommend to get modern composite chains and not the steel chains that are very hard to take off (and on). We use these https://fr.michelin-lifestyle.com/en/promotions/snow-chains/easy-grip-evolution and are happy with them.

SamT

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I'd personally go with some winter tyres as it will revolutionise your winter driving experience. Even just in UK.

I put them on the front two every Nov and can the relax about getting cought out by a flurry for the next few months.

They seem to work so well in most conditions other that the very deepest of snow. There are times when there is  only a thin covering if snow where chains would be overkill and would shake the car to bits as they be in contact with the tarmac.

You can hire chains online which I've done for the last couple of Alps trips as they're a legal requirement in France but never been  close to using them.

I buy them online from camskill and the local garage just swap em for me for a few fuck all's. Tend to get about 3 or 4 winters out of them

jwi

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I agree that winter tyres are better than anything else when the temperature is below 5 degrees.

Snow chains in the boot or a car equipped with  winter tyres are legal requirement in the blue area of this map:



https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/actualites/A14389

SA Chris

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I put them on the front two every Nov and can the relax about getting cought out by a flurry for the next few months.


I was told this seriously compromises braking, especially coming down steep slippery hills.

For a one off trip I'd go for a set of decent chains, and have a quick practice taking them on and off before you need to do so in anger / cold snowy wet conditions.

Paul B

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I've got a set of self centering chains which I bought at great expense at the top of a Swiss mountain pass when it was snowing incredibly heavily. They're absolutely great though as they self tighten and center. All you do is pull the cable out of a little reel, latch the end into place and then unlock the reel (minding your fingers).

EDIT: These https://snowchains.co.uk/snowchains/Weissenfels+Clack+and+Go+Pro+Tech/

petejh

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If you do go for chains keep an old spare pair of gloves in the car to wear while installing, instead of using your ski gloves as they’ll likely get soaking. Typically when not far from the resort so not much time to dry out. Not a good start to the ski day having wet gloves.

Steve R

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Just so you've had every type of recommendation recommended by someone, I'd recommend cheap snow chains for the minimal intended use. They're not hard to fit really and very quick to remove. Would second having a designated pair of gloves. Also a shovel and a bit of old carry mat to kneel on.  My cheap (~£30) chains still going strong and have seen quite a lot of use. Also very much doubt the French cops will be bothering tourists passing through without snow tyres (as long as they're equipped with chains/socks)

Andy W

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I've got expensive chains, cheap chains and winter tyres. But for light snow up to a few cm's deep snow socks are very easy to fit and remove, cheap! and supermarkets in France sell them.

SamT

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I was told this seriously compromises braking, especially coming down steep slippery hills.


Potentially - never had an issue though ( and have been down a few hills in snowy conditions). But this is going to be a risk with any front wheel drive car since your braking on the front and the rear is always going to come round.  Using the hand brake in this situation could correct it.   (though I rue the fact that my new car has a stupid button thing for the hand brake, no more fun in empty snowy car parks for me  :no:).

I'd rather have a couple of tyres that will grip at the front slow/stop, I just think snow tyres on non driving wheels is a bit of a waste of time/money, since other than the hand brake, the rear wheels are just 'passengers' anyway (i.e. not actually braking/or driving)  and the way the sipes (like razor cuts) are cut in, only works if the wheel is driving, or braking. (and not just rolling)

Not sure I've explained myself very well there :-\


SA Chris

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I hear what you are saying, owt is better than nowt, but I think rear wheels are doing a bit of braking than you think. One of the nearest misses I ever had was my old Espace with just snow tyres on the front, braking lightly on a steep snowy hill (A 939 at Bridge of Brown near Tomintoul if anyone knows it) and the back coming round at a scary speed and nearly ending up backwards in a ditch. I got 2 more snow tyres after that and never had the same thing happen. Google suggests it's a bad idea to have only two. 

Helge

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Fwiw, I live in Zürich and would recommend getting snow tyres. I don't go skiing and mostly only drive in the mountains when going climbing or bouldering. I've been in a few very sketchy situations with my previous set of all-weather tires and replaced them with a set of summer and winter tires after they wore out. I'd never consider driving with summer tires throughout winter.

We had a lot of snow last year even in the non-alpine areas - you're gambling that this winter is milder. I can't comment on chains as we tend to try escape the snow rather than seek it out, but in my impression they are not a substitute for snow tires. As somebody above pointed out, insurance companies will hold you liable and you may be considered partially at fault in any accident you are involved in.

ferret

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Snow tires will only allow to not use chains if you have AWD, waste of time for 2WD cars

SA Chris

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Not true?

I've hired 2 WD cars many times for driving in the alps and they have been oked by police checks and performed fine in the snow.

Fultonius

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Snow tires will only allow to not use chains if you have AWD, waste of time for 2WD cars

This is turning into a ukc thread of doom...

I respectfully completely disagree. Lived in the alps for 3.5 years and have had 10+ Scottish winter seasons with winter tyres on either a seat Leon or a vw t4 and been in all sorts of snow, even 6" of fresh up the ben Lawers carpark and never once been stuck.

The higher road clearance of a 4x4 can be handy, but on normal roads (i.e. no mad steep hills / off road) a good fresh set of winter tyres will keep you safely on the road in a lot of tough conditions in almost any car.

I drove as a minibus transfer driver for a couple of seasons. All we ever had was FWD, snow tyres and chains. Did use the chains on occasion with a full van just to be on the safe side, as trying to get them on when you're already stuck with a load of tired travellers isn't great...

MischaHY

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Completely agree with Fultonius. Winter tyres make a vast difference compared to summer tyres. I've never needed chains or a 4WD to do proper journeys in heavy snow (based in Southern Germany).

Oldmanmatt

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Yeah. Lived ten years in the Ardèche mountains. Only ever had a Citroen ZX in those days 2WD. Snow tyres and FWD from October to ~ April. Used chains twice in that time, when caught in blizzards and the snow on the roads was 50cm or so. Spent Jan/Feb each year up in the Queyras for the skiing/ice most years and I don’t recall putting the chains in at all up there (though the commune there ploughed daily, as opposed to twice weekly at home).

SA Chris

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the ben Lawers carpark

Only place winter tyres have ever let me down, but road was covered in an inch of verglas, needed to put on chains.

JJP

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I hear what you are saying, owt is better than nowt, but I think rear wheels are doing a bit of braking than you think. One of the nearest misses I ever had was my old Espace with just snow tyres on the front, braking lightly on a steep snowy hill (A 939 at Bridge of Brown near Tomintoul if anyone knows it) and the back coming round at a scary speed and nearly ending up backwards in a ditch. I got 2 more snow tyres after that and never had the same thing happen. Google suggests it's a bad idea to have only two.

This road is a regular for my work cycling weekend and is a cracker - usually heading west on it from Tomintoul to Nethy after a bacon/ egg roll at the old fire station cafe. Classic but I wouldnt fancy coming down it in winter!  :punk:

jwi

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In northern Sweden the winter is about 6 months long. I never used snow chains in 20 years of driving tiny front wheel drive cars. And I don’t know anyone up there who has ever used chains on anything but a tractor. (Winter tyres being a legal requirement regardless of conditions)

GCW

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Thanks all. Sounds like snow tyres plus chains in the boot.

At least the car is AWD.

SamT

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4 wheel drive and snow tires...  :thumbsup:

Pretty sure the chains will be forgotten about in the boot.

SA Chris

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Thanks all. Sounds like snow tyres plus chains in the boot.

At least the car is AWD.

If it's something you are thinking about doing regularly, it's probably worth looking on breakersyard.com or similar and getting a second set of basic hubs to put the snow tyres on, and save the £80 or so that fitters will charge twice a year for changing the tyres over. I got a set of hubs for our Focus for under £100.     

GCW

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Cheers Chris. I think this will be a one-off though.

GCW

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Just to close the loop.

I took the risk on keeping the standard tyres and took chains. Despite having good dumps of snow (six inches on one day) it was fine. We didn’t drive much but when we did there were no issues.

I suspect the type of car and having pretty new tyres with good treads helped.

I think if there was more driving involved, in future winters tyres would be the way to go.

Fultonius

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Only 6", that's barely even a powder day....

Good trip then?

andy_e

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What are the roads likely to be like in Brione/Val Bavona in late December/early Jan? Currently running Michelin CrossClimates, would these be OK with snow chains as a backup?

Fultonius

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As long as they've still got decent tread (>4mm) then nah, you'll be reet.

andy_e

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Cheers, just need to think about getting a diesel heater installed then!

 

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