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Things Rich Simpson Actually Did (Read 26990 times)

petejh

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#25 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 20, 2021, 10:43:08 pm
My one experience of climbing with RS was after he’d transformed himself into a self-proclaimed super-alpinist-in-waiting. I took him to a drytooling crag. He wasn’t great at it. He spent the day regaling me with stories of his boxing - apparently he would have been in the Olympic team for the London olympics, but at the last minute he got a shoulder injury. Tragic…
I let him talk and pretended to be if not impressed then at least interested. Told me how he kept in shape by knocking out one 8c per year despite having dropped sport climbing. How sport was all just all about power endurance (kinda true). Various other bollocks. He was clearly a pathological liar and a troubled mind. Bonjoy’s point that he was fundamentally uninterested in climbing rings very true, had never considered it like that before (the uninterested bit. Was obviously about ego).

What scares me is when I think about potential consequences if/when people with such profound honesty issues yet talent for pulling the wool become professionals with responsibilities beyond just themselves.

mrjonathanr

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#26 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 20, 2021, 11:34:00 pm
The country’s run by one.

36chambers

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#27 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 20, 2021, 11:52:00 pm
The only conclusion one can really make about Rich's lack of hard outdoor ascents, is that all the problems on the school board are clearly soft. Just saying :whistle:

DAVETHOMAS90

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#28 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 20, 2021, 11:58:21 pm
The country’s run by one.

 ;D

I think there's a question of who/why people find comfort in myth. That's as relevant, whether you've decided to position yourself on one side of the debate - or not.

I hope Remus was prepared for the response, and it doesn't hamper a more forensic assessment of things.

Good to hear the comments about Liquid Ambar.
I can imagine there was a lot more claimed that was closer to the truth than people want to accept.

I know the story around him self-tutoring his way into Cambridge was dismissed, though true. I remember him talking for a long time about having not run a sub-4 mile, before that claim was made.

Re the boxing, there were credible words of support about Rich's potential from Richie Woodhall, before a poor showing in the Varsity matchup. He was training at the Woodhall gym.

I think the remarks about Simpson being uninterested in climbing are really unfair. Driven, he certainly is, and there are many stars in many pursuits whose underlying insecurities (maybe) are more apparent then their love and enthusiasm for the activity itself.

I'd say the drive and the playfulness come from the same place in all of us. For a lot of us, the later exceeds the former, and we have an easier time of it.

Hopefully some facts can come out of this. Would be good.

remus

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#29 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 06:26:35 am
Thanks for the knowledge everyone, much appreciated. For context I was adding some more detail to https://climbing-history.org/climber/470/richard-simpson and noticed his 8a.nu page had a lot of stuff claimed that I haven't seen widely discussed (e.g. lots of old school 8cs in france). Given how much he made up It feels like there would have to be solid proof which doesn't seem to exist, so a big question mark is inevitably gonna hang over them.

Dave, it does seem a little harsh to write off all his ascents based on a lack of evidence for his harder stuff (it is generally nice to give people the benefit of the doubt), but I think in the context of accurately trying to record what is most likely to have happened the burden of proof is now much higher than we'd typically apply because he's known to be a prolific fantasist.

Shark, this is a total stab in the dark, but you mentioned in one of the old threads that you had a facebook/email exchange with his LA + hubble belayer. I'd be really interested to see it if you still have it around somewhere!

spidermonkey09

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#30 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 08:07:11 am
I'm amazed that anyone can be inspired by someone who clearly lies about most things they open their mouth about. Whats there to be inspired about other than feats of strength which are fairly par for the course (among a particularly strong cohort obviously) these days surely? Why is he more inspiring than any of the people doing lock offs on instagram?

I'm sure Richie Woodhall was more than ready to big up whoever was paying to train at his gym...boxing is after all famous for being honest about boxers limitations!  :lol:

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#31 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 08:39:03 am
Ed, have you seen Doylo's Perky Pinky?  I suspect it's a large part of the legend that preceded the fall  - 6 minutes of Rich Simpson crushing School Room problems.  The last 30s alone, when he warms down with a load of one-armers off an old resin fingerboard, possibly accounts for a lot of the benefit of the doubt he initially had.



I hadn't - looks like a strong bloke. Although lots of choppy cuts mid problem doesn't fill me with confidence. Maybe these days we're blessed with lots of uncut footage but it's hard to confirm he actually got up any of those problems!

As Barrows said - he also claimed to have run a sub 4 minute mile and 2.5hr marathon. And be on the Olympic team for boxing or something.
The 2.5 hr marathon is kinda believable, if he was into his running and naturally very quick. Sub 4 mile is something else though

Rope soloing Brandler-Hasse in 1hr 37 min is an absolutely bonkers claim.

18 pitches in 1:37??? 5.5 mins to climb, strip and jug each pitch. No chance.

Seems like a troubled man to get into telling all these sorts of stories. I hope he's found a way to settle down from the lies and being happy with what he actually did, which is still no doubt impressive - I would love to be able to do those one armers, for example!

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#32 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 08:50:06 am
Ultimately, he now comes across as a pitiful figure. It could be argued that not many people suffered from his lies. I guess a few might have lost out on sponsorship opportunities but this was probably offset by a general raising of the profile of climbing. Whilst the claimed feats were top end, they were hardly ground-breaking - just ripples in climbing history. I can't deny I get a lot of pleasure in reading about the exposure of his outlandish claims, so in that respect I feel he has given me more than he has taken away...

... Gaskins' lies on the other hand appear to have had a profound and lasting effect.

Bonjoy

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#33 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 08:58:59 am


I think there's a question of who/why people find comfort in myth. That's as relevant, whether you've decided to position yourself on one side of the debate - or not.

I hope Remus was prepared for the response, and it doesn't hamper a more forensic assessment of things.

Good to hear the comments about Liquid Ambar.
I can imagine there was a lot more claimed that was closer to the truth than people want to accept.

I know the story around him self-tutoring his way into Cambridge was dismissed, though true. I remember him talking for a long time about having not run a sub-4 mile, before that claim was made.

Re the boxing, there were credible words of support about Rich's potential from Richie Woodhall, before a poor showing in the Varsity matchup. He was training at the Woodhall gym.

I think the remarks about Simpson being uninterested in climbing are really unfair. Driven, he certainly is, and there are many stars in many pursuits whose underlying insecurities (maybe) are more apparent then their love and enthusiasm for the activity itself.

I'd say the drive and the playfulness come from the same place in all of us. For a lot of us, the later exceeds the former, and we have an easier time of it.

Hopefully some facts can come out of this. Would be good.
It's not an idle slur Dave, it's based on spending quite a bit of time with Rich. My now wife was very good friends with Rich's girlfriend of the time, and I had plenty of opportunity to discuss climbing with Rich as well as climb with him (most often indoors). He held the view (as expressed in Doylo's film) that technique is a myth and strength alone is enough to climb anything. This led him to claim various grit things which though superficially trivial in grade compared to all the sport stuff, he was preposterously incapable of climbing, or even understanding why he was unable to climb. He talked about climbing a lot but only in the context of how good he was, how easy it was, who he was better than etc. Never once would he enthuse about the actual climbs, except in the context of their historical important, which again was just a way of bigging up his own significance.
Like you say Dave...
Quote
I think there's a question of who/why people find comfort in myth.
The object of Rich's climbing was to gain admiration. To him it was irrelevant whether he climbed something or not. Climbing something unwitnessed for him would be a huge waste of effort, as he gained no more from it than he did from an empty claim. For this reason amongst others (including lots that isn't fit for a public climbing forum) my belief is that anything unwitnessed (i.e. everthing hard and most of the rest) is bogus.

ali k

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#34 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 09:08:53 am
The 2.5 hr marathon is kinda believable, if he was into his running and naturally very quick.
Yeh potentially. Although what surrounded the event is what makes it unbelievable, as it follows the same pattern as most (all?) of his hardest ascents - it had to become unverifiable. In this case it was supposed to have happened at the NY marathon, but you won't find his name recorded because he only got his place by someone unknown dropping out and giving him his number.

Quote
I hope he's found a way to settle down from the lies and being happy
Yeh me too.

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#35 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 09:14:40 am
Timely thread, as I was reading one of the old log pile RS threads a few days ago bored at work. I was wondering if any of the supposed footage would ever emerge, or any reconciliation with the climbing community after an apology over what were some outrageous claims and recoconition for any real accents restored. However separating the two would be rather complicated given the history. I think deep down I still want to believe some of the magazine articles with the inspirational shots were real. Not sure if the want to believe some were real still is for him, or for myself being in denial that nothing was true outside of being exceptional strong on a campus rung and those inspirational shots on AD were no more real than many childhood fantacies.

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#36 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 09:46:26 am
I think the remarks about Simpson being uninterested in climbing are really unfair.

:shrug: When I first started climbing all the Simpson interviews in mags and websites were just him saying how he wasn’t interested in climbing. It was a right buzzkill.

grimer

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#37 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 10:10:05 am
I thought he was good fun.

T_B

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#38 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 10:41:48 am
I thought he was a nasty piece of work.

T_B

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#39 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 10:43:38 am
Given what we now know for sure about his dishonesty (eg 4 minute mile) his final post on the UKC thread (that was deleted, but I’d copied it given sponsors of BH were phoning me up for my ‘opinion’) makes for interesting reading…

Having just returned home I have had a brief look through the majority of crap that has been written. I have however read bens reply and feel, along with what Ben asked, that it is better that I sort this out with Ben. I am not interested in supplying the people that read these forums with gossip, and things they can spend their days trying to criticise. The only post I have written on this forum is the first one. It neither states that Ben is a liar or that he is honest, it just asks for anyone who has witnessed Ben climbing impressive things to come forward. So far not one person has come forward to support Ben but that is neither here or their.
The point is everyone who is concerned within this matter will be contacted by me and will have the ability to contact me in person. Everyone else will have to just not know what has been going on until their is an agreed outcome by both Ben and myself. I have not set out to sabotage Ben in any way. I just want the truth, in fact as a person Ben is someone I like, but at the same time it’s hard to forget that I feel he is dishonest when speaking to him. I am not questioning Bens climbing ability; I am questioning the validity of some of his ascents. If he can prove I am wrong I will publically apologise via this forum and the mags. If he can’t prove I am wrong I will continue to feel that he is dishonest.
 
Reply how you like to, criticise how you want; you will not get another reply from me until this matter is sorted. The people that are owed a reply or are concerned will get one. The majority of the people that post on this forum are owed nothing from me.
If you have a problem with what I have done, or written. theirs no need to voice it on here, I will not read it and will not care. If you really feel I have done wrong, confront me next time you see me, I will be happy to answer questions from anyone who confronts me personally.
 
I understand that the majority of people that post on here are either bored at work or bored in life, but this is no reason to expect information you have not got anything to do with and know nothing about. In fact the amount of information that has been posted on this thread by people who haven’t the slightest clue in this topic is beyond me, surely in life if you are uniformed about things you say nothing? It’s obvious this is not the case with the majority of the posts on here.
 
Think what you want about me, I don’t care, anyone that knows me will know what im like, and to the rest it will just be assumptions.
 
I am not owed a living by anyone, and have no reason to tip toe around people, I don’t want a living from climbing so have no need to build either a good reputation with anyone I don’t want to.
 
I am not however stating I have no proof, I do, but this is between me and Ben and the other people involved, if you are involved, you have nothing to worry about, you will see the proof. If you don’t see the proof theirs a good chance its nothing to do with you anyway.
 
Thanks for reading this. Their should be no real reason for anyone to post again on this topic, fish as much as you want you wont get anything else. Like I said if you have a problem you know what to do.

mrjonathanr

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#40 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 11:50:49 am
Thanks. That’s tedious. Glad he didn’t get into Cam to read English. Accusing BH just seems like a smokescreen through whataboutery to me. Would love to read Grant F’s take on that.

Paul B

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#41 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 12:48:23 pm
I hadn't - looks like a strong bloke. Although lots of choppy cuts mid problem doesn't fill me with confidence. Maybe these days we're blessed with lots of uncut footage but it's hard to confirm he actually got up any of those problems!

Well you can rest easy with the majority of those (PP aside) plenty of people saw him get up the 'lesser' problems. I have a distinct memory of him having done Pumping Pistons... and asking me to have a go and finding the positions 'strenuous' shall we say. This was when I was going at my best ever on that specific board and whilst a few of the problems evaded me, the majority didn't; Rich was another level of strong by comparison.  Anyone that disputes the above is plain mad IMO.

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#42 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 01:27:04 pm
I sometimes boulder indoors with a chap who is a lot better than me on all kinds of problems in the gym. He is also stronger on training apparatuses. Last winter he tried to redpoint my regular warmup at a local crag, to no avail. I am not sure he did all the moves despite impeccable conditions. If I had not seen him climb outdoors and he'd told me that he had done a 9a I would not bat an eyelid.

edshakey

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#43 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 01:33:19 pm
I hadn't - looks like a strong bloke. Although lots of choppy cuts mid problem doesn't fill me with confidence. Maybe these days we're blessed with lots of uncut footage but it's hard to confirm he actually got up any of those problems!

Well you can rest easy with the majority of those (PP aside) plenty of people saw him get up the 'lesser' problems. I have a distinct memory of him having done Pumping Pistons... and asking me to have a go and finding the positions 'strenuous' shall we say. This was when I was going at my best ever on that specific board and whilst a few of the problems evaded me, the majority didn't; Rich was another level of strong by comparison.  Anyone that disputes the above is plain mad IMO.

Doylo said in another thread that he didn't actually manage PP in that session, hence the spliced footage. But yeah given the amount of talk of him in the school room being a beast, I'd be pretty happy to accept that he was very strong.

Interesting to find out all this info now, from everyone else's retrospective views on it - having never known anything of him, I've got no reason to believe either side. But the evidence is certainly not in his favour IMO - overwhelming disbelief from a majority of people who comment on the matter, as well as some truly outrageous claims that seem borderline impossible. I keen for a reasonable amount of skepticism of ascents in general, and most of this stuff seems to be failing to pass that test.

Disappointing really, it'd be nicer if this kind of thing never happened. Maybe we're moving towards the point where this would be almost impossible, given how easy it is to film things/get in contact with belayers, witnesses. Having said that, the Said Belhaj stuff was only a couple years ago, so maybe not  :-\

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#44 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 03:34:03 pm
I'd hope if he could go back, he wouldn't do it again. Must be a stressful way to live.
I heard he's an osteopath now, but rumour so not sure if true

Paul B

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#45 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 03:43:48 pm
I sometimes boulder indoors with a chap who is a lot better than me on all kinds of problems in the gym. He is also stronger on training apparatuses. Last winter he tried to redpoint my regular warmup at a local crag, to no avail. I am not sure he did all the moves despite impeccable conditions. If I had not seen him climb outdoors and he'd told me that he had done a 9a I would not bat an eyelid.

That wasn't the point of my post though (which was a direct reply to someone).

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#46 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 03:54:40 pm
What scares me is when I think about potential consequences if/when people with such profound honesty issues yet talent for pulling the wool become professionals with responsibilities beyond just themselves.

I hear he is now an osteopath............

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#47 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 03:59:25 pm
From the sound of it he’s always been a something opath.

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#48 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 04:05:08 pm

That wasn't the point of my post though (which was a direct reply to someone).

I did not post it as a reply to you, but more as a general point. The point I was trying to make was that we should perhaps not take strength on indoor climbing, or even worse strength on auxiliary exercises like deadhangs as supporting evidence for ability.

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#49 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 21, 2021, 04:20:57 pm

That wasn't the point of my post though (which was a direct reply to someone).

I did not post it as a reply to you, but more as a general point. The point I was trying to make was that we should perhaps not take strength on indoor climbing, or even worse strength on auxiliary exercises like deadhangs as supporting evidence for ability.

It's the sort of cautionary tail which should be well known to everyone when planning their own approach to climbing really; strength and power are not the be all and end all of success in climbing.

 

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