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Things Rich Simpson Actually Did (Read 26977 times)

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#125 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 27, 2021, 07:51:44 pm
Should have done a couple of Dawes slab-hopping masterclasses  :yes:

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#126 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 27, 2021, 08:14:01 pm
[
To go back to the original question of this thread, I find it really difficult to understand how someome who was so strong on a board didn't manage to get up something on rock. Surely he managed something or other of even moderate difficulty? Anyone?

The frustrating thing is that he probably did a lot of the hard stuff what he said he did, i.e. Liquid Ambar, A Muerte, even Action Directe for all we know. However, credibility counts for a lot and in the absence of proof or witnesses vouching for ascents and in light of the controversy, we may never know. Granted a few bits have come to light in this thread re Liquid Ambar in regards to email exchanges with his belayer but they are nothing substantially new or game changing as far as I can see.

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#127 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 27, 2021, 09:06:52 pm
I'm a bit surprised this is still being discussed but I guess there remains so much mystery. This post won't help resolve any of it.

I climbed with Rich quite a bit. Indoors at the school, at his home board, my home board, etc etc. I've also been lucky to climb with a number of other strong climbers, although never with anyone from the new breed of superwad. I can honestly say that Rich was a level above anything I'd ever seen on a board. I can't remember exactly which problems he did or didn't do on which board, but I do remember his level. I do remember being on perky pinky with him and I can remember him not being able to do it in a oner but he could piss the moves. I hear this is pissed all over these days by the young superwads but it's still an ok benchmark relative to everyone else who was climbing in Sheffield at the time.

I also climbed with Rich outdoors. In fact, I was with him for most that fateful trip in Frankenjura where we wrote off a car, he littered his jizz tissues all over my bed, and he probably didn't do Action Direct. I belayed him on lots of different routes. I did see him warm up on 8b routes (as in, actually doing them). I belayed him on some 9a's which he later claimed although I didn't see him do them. One of those was action direct. I belayed Rich for several sessions on Action Direct. I remember how bad conditions were some days with holds turning black instantly. I remember some days he was really struggling on the route and couldn't do the moves. Other days he would link sections consistently. I also saw him climb from just after the first jump to the top. That's when I realised Rich could definitely do it and it was a case of conditions and a good go. But then I left to go the UK for a week of exams and when I came back he'd ticked off a bunch of stuff... including Action Direct.

From experience, I know the gap between climbing from one move in to the full ascent can be massive, sometimes it's infinite. Most people have experienced that to some extent. I don't know the truth of the Rich situation, or his ascents, but he was a very strong climber, both indoors and on rock. I also think he was probably a bit troubled due to a bunch of personal/family reasons and I don't think they should be discussed publicly (and I don't know about them either but speak as an observer).

It's a shame that anyone should feel the need to lie but ultimately lying about climbing a piece of rock is pretty low impact. It's nothing compared to Lance Armstrong and even that is basically nothing compared to someone like Trump/Bolsonaro/Jong-Un etc where the lies are genuinely costing lives.

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#128 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 27, 2021, 09:11:28 pm
Ted - What makes you say probably re A Muerte and AD? Belayers/witnesses were never identified let alone came forward. You seem to be assigning equal probability to his claim for Liquid Ambar with the other two. Given a belayer was happy to respond to my messages and corroborated the Liquid Ambar (and Hubble) ascents the likelihood he redpointed those is substantially higher. I’d say the other two were improbable by comparison.

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#129 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 27, 2021, 09:36:47 pm
Ted - What makes you say probably re A Muerte and AD? Belayers/witnesses were never identified let alone came forward. You seem to be assigning equal probability to his claim for Liquid Ambar with the other two. Given a belayer was happy to respond to my messages and corroborated the Liquid Ambar (and Hubble) ascents the likelihood he redpointed those is substantially higher. I’d say the other two were improbable by comparison.

Nothing other than that he was prepared to say he did them and was operating at a level where people at the time were prepared to believe him. I know nothing more than anybody else does

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#130 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 27, 2021, 09:50:10 pm
I think you are going to have to be really, really strong to get up something like Action Directe with mediocre technique.

Well I'm almost not interested in the AD claim. The whole point of the thread was things which others can verify he actually did, and I would include slightly easier things than AD. Uncle's mention of witnessing him warming up on 8bs is a perfect example. At that point in time that's a pretty high level no?

I was also struck by Bonjoy's mention of seeing him struggle on a 6b or something. For someone as clearly strong as he was on a board, the idea he would find something that easy anything other than a path just doesn't make sense to me!

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#131 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 27, 2021, 10:20:04 pm

 Uncle's mention of witnessing him warming up on 8bs is a perfect example. At that point in time that's a pretty high level no?


No. Ben and Jerry were warming up on 8bs in 1990.

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#132 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 08:36:54 am
What grade someone "warms up on" is not, and never will be, a measure of how good someone is. It's total ego driven bollox and is merely an indication of what grade they are willing to do as their first route of the day. Presumably in full view of lots of people.

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#133 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 08:42:14 am
I also climbed with Rich outdoors. In fact, I was with him for most that fateful trip in Frankenjura where we wrote off a car, he littered his jizz tissues all over my bed, and he probably didn't do Action Direct. I belayed him on lots of different routes. I did see him warm up on 8b routes (as in, actually doing them). I belayed him on some 9a's which he later claimed although I didn't see him do them. One of those was action direct. I belayed Rich for several sessions on Action Direct. I remember how bad conditions were some days with holds turning black instantly. I remember some days he was really struggling on the route and couldn't do the moves. Other days he would link sections consistently. I also saw him climb from just after the first jump to the top. That's when I realised Rich could definitely do it and it was a case of conditions and a good go. But then I left to go the UK for a week of exams and when I came back he'd ticked off a bunch of stuff... including Action Direct.

Thanks for that Uncle, exactly the sort of thing I was hoping might come up when I started the thread (maybe not the jizz tissues bit though).

Uncle's mention of witnessing him warming up on 8bs is a perfect example. At that point in time that's a pretty high level no?
No. Ben and Jerry were warming up on 8bs in 1990.

I think it's kinda harsh to suggest warming up on 8bs in Frankenjura isn't "high level", maybe not world class but I bet there wasn't many people in the UK performing at that level at that time (Steve Mc, Malc, Dunning, Ben Moon...probably missing a few but it's a pretty select group). I was hoping to eek out some harder stuff that unequivocally happened and this is a decent example.

What grade someone "warms up on" is not, and never will be, a measure of how good someone is. It's total ego driven bollox and is merely an indication of what grade they are willing to do as their first route of the day. Presumably in full view of lots of people.

For me whether it was really a warm up kinda misses the point. The impression I get from Uncle's post is that he did some 8bs in the Jura and made them look piss. Obviously not evidence that he actually did any of the harder stuff, but it's a starting point for establishing what he's actually done.

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#134 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 08:57:36 am
Anyone know where he is nowadays?

Turns out I do. He now frequents a wall near me that a few of my friends go to on the regular. Seems he wants to keep a low profile now, but from what I can gather he's still fairly strong but not wad strong.

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#135 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 09:08:35 am
Sorry Simon I have just looked at the entry for Hubble and Liquid Ambar on the Climbing History site and see the witness confirmations. I must admit I hadn't fully mentally processed this yesterday or since I saw it earlier on in the thread, having been a sceptic for years. However, perhaps it is time to add him to the definitive list for both ascents? I see the disclaimer but surely a witness is a witness? Who are we to analyse the credentials of the belayer when we don't know them?

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#136 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 09:18:51 am
This "warming up on 8b" thing is disingenuous bollocks, since Ben and Jerry have never onsighted the grade and Rich only a few  (  :worms: )

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#137 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 09:25:31 am
Jerry did chuck 5 laps on La Rose at the end of Buoux sessions though according to Buoux 8c...  :)

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#138 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 09:33:12 am
I once “warmed up” on an 8a+ despite having 8b as my best rp grade.

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#139 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 10:06:15 am
I was also struck by Bonjoy's mention of seeing him struggle on a 6b or something. For someone as clearly strong as he was on a board, the idea he would find something that easy anything other than a path just doesn't make sense to me!

Have you met Bojan?

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#140 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 10:49:02 am
I don't want to side track this thread but related to AD etc, did any evidence come out in the end to confirm Said Belhaj's ascent (or any of his ascents above 8c)?

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#141 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 12:00:03 pm
Anyone know where he is nowadays?

Turns out I do. He now frequents a wall near me that a few of my friends go to on the regular. Seems he wants to keep a low profile now, but from what I can gather he's still fairly strong but not wad strong.

That's great to hear. I withdraw my sarky Strada comment upthread.

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#142 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 12:15:38 pm
I just checked what the state of play on climbing-history.org was. Is there any reason to still exclude Liquid Ambar and Hubble? We have a belayer who says he's done it and the belayer is vouched for by Doyle.

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#143 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 12:18:26 pm
I was also struck by Bonjoy's mention of seeing him struggle on a 6b or something. For someone as clearly strong as he was on a board, the idea he would find something that easy anything other than a path just doesn't make sense to me!

Have you met Bojan?

Not seen him sport climb to be fair.

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#144 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 12:28:52 pm
I was also struck by Bonjoy's mention of seeing him struggle on a 6b or something. For someone as clearly strong as he was on a board, the idea he would find something that easy anything other than a path just doesn't make sense to me!

Have you met Bojan?

Not seen him sport climb to be fair.

Few have. Slightly flippant but I'm sure we've all seen board monsters who aren't as good as you'd expect on the rock.

I'm not saying Bojan isn't as good as I'd expect on rock but I have seen him back off a 5b top-out and take about 10 minutes to do a Font 4 slab finish to something at Rylstone.

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#145 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 12:38:53 pm
I loved that wall when I was growing up and the cellar there was something I never ventured down to

Reminds me, back in the early 00's when we used to go to the monthly comps at St Werburgh's, shurt and I definitely witnessed RS fail on a problem for the nth time, throw a massive paddy, kick his chalk bag, tear up his scorcecard and storm out. Much to our amusement.

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#146 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 12:43:17 pm
Few have. Slightly flippant but I'm sure we've all seen board monsters who aren't as good as you'd expect on the rock.

I'm not saying Bojan isn't as good as I'd expect on rock but I have seen him back off a 5b top-out and take about 10 minutes to do a Font 4 slab finish to something at Rylstone.

I'm not sure Bojan is a good example, given he's recently done things like Zoo York, Fluid Dynamics, Primitive Notion and Diluvian it's tricky to argue he's shit on rock....maybe just shit at certain styles, which is true of anyone.

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#147 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 01:23:00 pm
He's definitely not shit on rock. But doing some hard things doesn't make you great at all the easy things, like grit 6Bs (as per the Rich Simpson example).

The point is that people expect board or fingerboard strength to translate consistently to any style of climbing and it is never ever that simple.

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#148 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 01:28:54 pm

The point is that people expect board or fingerboard strength to translate consistently to any style of climbing and it is never ever that simple.

I’m not sure anyone expects that!

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#149 Re: Things Rich Simpson Actually Did
October 28, 2021, 01:49:33 pm

The point is that people expect board or fingerboard strength to translate consistently to any style of climbing and it is never ever that simple.

I’m not sure anyone expects that!

Except perhaps the Lattice deciples.

 

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