[abarro81]

I too can't tell if JB is trolling or just doesn't understand physics

[shark]

Are you ok Adam?

[petejh]

I bet lynn hill wouldn’t say they were impossible even if she couldn’t do them

Seriously? Have you been on the brownies again? Fuck Lynn Hill and her positive mental attitude. Here in the North of England we call it as it is, and if it's a grim November afternoon and you're getting nowhere on some piece of shit problem anyone not a total midget has already lanked and moved on, you're entitled to call it impossible.

This is wonderful stuff. JB's turned into the Andy Gray of bouldering.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/what-does-can-they-do-it-on-a-cold-rainy-night-in-stoke-mean/1f7alegnrwfr01i5vj34vak59k

[northern yob]

Yeah likewise Hazel was trying the crux of green traverse by crimping on some nothing intermediates. Not impossible, not 7a or whatever it gets. She's projecting this desperate and not particularly good variation while everyone else has lanked the move and left. Sure Yob would have hung around to spot Lynn on it tho.

I probably would have spotted them both, as would you. I’d have been sat there anyway moaning about conditions or venue… That has fuck all to do with anything anyway! My point was things tend not to be impossible, short or tall. What’s your point? Hazel found the grit hard? I find southern sandstone desperate. So what

[Wood FT]

Are you ok Adam?

Best I've read on here for ages. Lovely stuff, Adam.

[Fiend]

Top post JB, I admire your restraint and tact especially anticipating the inevitable gigantalankalope backlash.


Incidentally - Stu, when it comes to the equally inevitable "reaching past and avoiding hard moves" , I thought height made more of a difference than ape index for reaching UP rather than spanning compression moves. The additive bonus of ape index is for the total span so should be roughly halved for a single arm reaching upwards - the effective bonus being half the AI. Of course one still needs to take into account the arms in the massive advantage the taller climber has over the shorter climber. So comparing a, say, 5'8" +1 climber to a 5'10" +2 climber, the latter will have an extra 2 (height) + 1 (one arm) + 0.5 (extra AI compared to the former's AI), thus 3.5" more reach / 3.5" more crux-bypassing.

[webbo]

Does any of these mean I can sit on 2 mats to reach the holds my mate starts on from one mat.

[Johnny Brown]

I can't tell whether you've just typed a load of drivel as a joke or in earnest.

Got you right where I want you...

[Rob F]

Errrrrm - when the taller climber hangs off straight arms their centre of gravity will be a heck of a way further down the crag than for the shorter climber...below the crux in more extreme examples.

[petejh]

Depends on the bodily proportions of the taller climber - for e.g. if it’s Ondra then most of his extra height could be in his swan neck. His COG might be the same as for a shorter climber but his head higher up. Maybe that’s his secret power.

[IanP]

I too can't tell if JB is trolling or just doesn't understand physics

Probably shouldn't be drawn in but unless it is trolling I'm amazed that anyone rational really believes that overall its an advantage to be tall as a climber.  Never mind the physics , just look at the evidence, the best climbers have a fairly wide distribution centered around averageish height. 

 

[Bonjoy]

I'd love to see a graph plotting climbers' height against whether or not they think height is an advantage  .
Nobody likes to think they have an unearned advantage, especially if they're still crap.

[Andy F]

I too can't tell if JB is trolling or just doesn't understand physics

Probably shouldn't be drawn in but unless it is trolling I'm amazed that anyone rational really believes that overall its an advantage to be tall as a climber.  Never mind the physics , just look at the evidence, the best climbers have a fairly wide distribution centered around averageish height. 

Say's the taller than average climber 

[Stu Littlefair]

Two pages later and no one has suggested a way I can get taller, or a method Alex can use to do something about his ridiculous shins.

Or explained Brooke.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Yeah likewise Hazel was trying the crux of green traverse by crimping on some nothing intermediates. Not impossible, not 7a or whatever it gets. She's projecting this desperate and not particularly good variation while everyone else has lanked the move and left. Sure Yob would have hung around to spot Lynn on it tho.

Jumping in, somewhat out of sequence. This is where the issue is.

The question about "Slash grades" arises from the nonsense of grading the "thing in itself" - the problem - a bit like trying to go to 15 decimal places to arrive at a more "accurate" (incorrect) number.

If you remove the larger holds from Green Traverse, it would "trade at a higher grade" because the most common level of difficulty of climbing required to do it would have increased. The difficulty of the sequence Hazel was trying doesn't suddenly decrease when you Araldite the holds back on.
Mind you, you'd be able to experience it first hand with new "shorter legs" if you chipped the jugs off.

Sometimes that climbing will be easier for the short/light, and sometimes easier for the taller/heavier.

Regarding attitude to moves that seem "out of reach", I find it easier to focus on where I can improve in terms of technique/strength, than to look at the rock for "reasons for not being able to do something". I don't even like typing the words .. but then I know I have a vast ocean of improvement in technique/strength to enjoy!

Edit.
See what I did there. I'm of pretty average build. When someone shorter than me does something I find difficult, it's because they're lighter; if they're taller.. well, they're just taller. I like that.

[Bradders]

Depends on the bodily proportions of the taller climber - for e.g. if it’s Ondra then most of his extra height could be in his swan neck. His COG might be the same as for a shorter climber but his head higher up. Maybe that’s his secret power.

 

I noticed in the 4th pic in this post that "the neck" runs in the family, assuming that's his mum he's stood next to!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUvWX5kKGXb/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

[Johnny Brown]

My point was things tend not to be impossible, short or tall. What’s your point?

The point is that while you can claim the rock is equal opportunities, climbing culture certainly isn't. Development, grading and guidebooks were all done overwhelming by middle class white guys. Whether or not you believe standards are generally pushed by the above average (see Bonjoy's point), factor in women and the disadvantaged and the demographic is significantly skewed. While we all strut about ticking this and that, when I've climbed with proper shorties it's clear they take grades rather less seriously. And with good reason. I feel lucky that pretty early on I was let into the secret that grades are largely a farce, but it's clear that isn't universally acknowledged. As we move towards a more inclusive future, should we be doing something about that?

[Fiend]

As we move towards a more inclusive future, should we be doing something about that?

Like including a lot more slash grades??? 

[northern yob]

My point was things tend not to be impossible, short or tall. What’s your point?

The point is that while you can claim the rock is equal opportunities, climbing culture certainly isn't. Development, grading and guidebooks were all done overwhelming by middle class white guys. Whether or not you believe standards are generally pushed by the above average (see Bonjoy's point), factor in women and the disadvantaged and the demographic is significantly skewed. While we all strut about ticking this and that, when I've climbed with proper shorties it's clear they take grades rather less seriously. And with good reason. I feel lucky that pretty early on I was let into the secret that grades are largely a farce, but it's clear that isn't universally acknowledged. As we move towards a more inclusive future, should we be doing something about that?

Yikes it’s not an exclusive club, I’m sure they will work it out, grades are a guide and ultimately can never be accurate for everyone. Whilst we all like a tick I genuinely pity anyone who doesn’t see it for what it is…. What exactly are you suggesting a sliding grade scale depending on size, weight or any one of a thousand variables, I couldn’t care less if shorties wanna take an extra grade for everything on the grit, it means fuck all as you rightly point out.

[Johnny Brown]

Like including a lot more slash grades??? 

Potentially yeah. But generally being a lot less dogmatic about grades, especially in print. And getting more input from shorties.

[northern yob]

Like including a lot more slash grades??? 

Potentially yeah. But generally being a lot less dogmatic about grades, especially in print. And getting more input from shorties.

Sounds amazing we could have a chart at the front of the guide where you work out which grade you can take for a given problem depending on your size/weight/gender , hold on we are including other variables aren’t we? Maybe a separate book of charts to work out what your due for your tick….. or we just accept it’s a guide and take it with a pinch of salt.

Either way I’m in! Just don’t ask me to get involved in guidebook writing.

[SA Chris]

Maybe a separate book of charts to work out what your due for your tick…

I think an app is the only way, with your stats inputted, and drawing on any variables for any given day - weather, number of spotters and mats, amount of alcohol consumed the night before, distance travelled to do the problem (to weed out local showponying)  etc.

[northern yob]

Maybe a separate book of charts to work out what your due for your tick…

I think an app is the only way, with your stats inputted, and drawing on any variables for any given day - weather, number of spotters and mats, amount of alcohol consumed the night before, distance travelled to do the problem (to weed out local showponying)  etc.

Ha ha yes I’m showing my age here, an app is the way to go, but what about those who don’t have a smartphone, that’s not very inclusive. Jesus this is a logistical nightmare

[Fiend]

Sorry, but if you identify as (heathen/non-smartphone), inclusivity doesn't cover you.

[northern yob]

On a more serious note aren’t they the ones who’ve got it right if they aren’t taking them too seriously? Seems like you would only be delaying the epiphany that you luckily had if you try to level the playing field for them?

I suppose what I’m saying is it’s never going to be accurate and by trying to make it more accurate all you do is fuck it up and make it less likely people see it for what it is. A guide…..