Quote from: Kingy on October 02, 2021, 11:17:00 amI'm glad we're singing from the same hymn sheet then. Funny that there doesn't seem to be any guidance anywhere written down to delineate these matters. E.g. just as an example for short bouldery routes where the main event is the crux:Font 7A crux - French 7c...sorry can't think of one...Font 7A+ - French 7c+ (The Pinch Test, Rubicon, The Maximum at Malham)Font 7B - French 8a (Rattle and Hump/ Out of my Tree)Font 7B+ - French 8a+ (Energy Vampire)Font 7C - French 8b (Magnetic Fields/ Revelations)Font 7C+ - French 8c (Make it Funky). Shame that Pump up the Power 8a+ breaks this system with a Font 7c+ crux!! albeit with next to no other climbingThat all makes sense. As another example for 7A+ = 7c+; This is the Sea at Chee Dale Cornice is exactly this.
I'm glad we're singing from the same hymn sheet then. Funny that there doesn't seem to be any guidance anywhere written down to delineate these matters. E.g. just as an example for short bouldery routes where the main event is the crux:Font 7A crux - French 7c...sorry can't think of one...Font 7A+ - French 7c+ (The Pinch Test, Rubicon, The Maximum at Malham)Font 7B - French 8a (Rattle and Hump/ Out of my Tree)Font 7B+ - French 8a+ (Energy Vampire)Font 7C - French 8b (Magnetic Fields/ Revelations)Font 7C+ - French 8c (Make it Funky). Shame that Pump up the Power 8a+ breaks this system with a Font 7c+ crux!! albeit with next to no other climbing
Quote from: Will Hunt on October 01, 2021, 11:01:36 pmSorry but no way is the start of Subculture that hard!But also tricky to give a boulder grade to. I'd say it was a 7c or 7c+ to the rest.On the basis that it's roughly two 7A/V6 boulder problems back to back with no rest. Then using the standard equation; (6+6+4)/2= V8 or 7B, rounding up because V8 is a weird grade. It's probably just wrong to give it a boulder grade though really, 7c+ route makes more sense. It's never taken me 8 sessions to do any other 7B at least
Sorry but no way is the start of Subculture that hard!But also tricky to give a boulder grade to. I'd say it was a 7c or 7c+ to the rest.
What about Too Old to be Bold @ WCJ? How hard is the crux on that? Route = 7c
I guess it possibly is though I've also heard slightly easier for the boulder grade - still too hard for me. My comment was very much from a personal perspective that climbing 7B+ (0) is harder than 8a (2), ymmv
Quote from: Bradders on October 02, 2021, 12:17:08 pmQuote from: Will Hunt on October 01, 2021, 11:01:36 pmSorry but no way is the start of Subculture that hard!But also tricky to give a boulder grade to. I'd say it was a 7c or 7c+ to the rest.On the basis that it's roughly two 7A/V6 boulder problems back to back with no rest. Then using the standard equation; (6+6+4)/2= V8 or 7B, rounding up because V8 is a weird grade. It's probably just wrong to give it a boulder grade though really, 7c+ route makes more sense. It's never taken me 8 sessions to do any other 7B at least I can remember thinking 7B until I did it, then 7A+ after. Dropped the move into the undercut a couple of times and then (my mate) found a better way of doing the moves past the sidepulls/undercuts and did it straight away. I hadn’t done anything harder than 7B+ at the time so no way it was that hard.
Forgive me bleating on about this, I just find it fascinating reading these when I'm coming from completely the other end of the spectrum; in the context that, without tooting the old horn too much, I've done >300 7A+ - 7B+ boulder problems and very, very few of them took me even half the time it did to climb from the ground to the first jugs on Subculture. With that in mind, it's easy to see how even 7B+ just doesn't make sense as an accurate way to describe the difficulties, so clearly my original suggestion was complete nonsense. As you were
Quote from: IanP on October 01, 2021, 11:00:26 pmI guess it possibly is though I've also heard slightly easier for the boulder grade - still too hard for me. My comment was very much from a personal perspective that climbing 7B+ (0) is harder than 8a (2), ymmvQuote from: Stabbsy on October 02, 2021, 03:13:16 pmQuote from: Bradders on October 02, 2021, 12:17:08 pmQuote from: Will Hunt on October 01, 2021, 11:01:36 pmSorry but no way is the start of Subculture that hard!But also tricky to give a boulder grade to. I'd say it was a 7c or 7c+ to the rest.On the basis that it's roughly two 7A/V6 boulder problems back to back with no rest. Then using the standard equation; (6+6+4)/2= V8 or 7B, rounding up because V8 is a weird grade. It's probably just wrong to give it a boulder grade though really, 7c+ route makes more sense. It's never taken me 8 sessions to do any other 7B at least I can remember thinking 7B until I did it, then 7A+ after. Dropped the move into the undercut a couple of times and then (my mate) found a better way of doing the moves past the sidepulls/undercuts and did it straight away. I hadn’t done anything harder than 7B+ at the time so no way it was that hard.Forgive me bleating on about this, I just find it fascinating reading these when I'm coming from completely the other end of the spectrum; in the context that, without tooting the old horn too much, I've done >300 7A+ - 7B+ boulder problems and very, very few of them took me even half the time it did to climb from the ground to the first jugs on Subculture. With that in mind, it's easy to see how even 7B+ just doesn't make sense as an accurate way to describe the difficulties, so clearly my original suggestion was complete nonsense. As you were
I agree Entree at Lower 2 Tier is Font 7B+ and therefore French 8a+. Always was a sandbag at 8a
Obviously horses for courses etc but I think entree is no harder than R and H, also if it is 8a+ then there is only a grade between it and Kali yuga which is a solid 2 grades harder I think (is that still 8b).
Anyway... just add 3 grades and it works about right i.e. a long 7B+ = a short 8a, like we had at the start. Which of course means that Jim was smoking crack to think that 7B+ into a bunch more climbing could be 7c+...
looking at it the other way longer 7As (Green Traverse) seemed to feel around equivalent to a 7b+ in terms of effort for me.
Quote from: abarro81 on October 04, 2021, 03:05:43 pmAnyway... just add 3 grades and it works about right i.e. a long 7B+ = a short 8a, like we had at the start. Which of course means that Jim was smoking crack to think that 7B+ into a bunch more climbing could be 7c+...At lower grades I always worked on this basis - looking at it the other way longer 7As (e.g. Gorilla Warfare, Green Traverse) seemed to feel around equivalent to a 7b+ in terms of effort for me.
As I already said, you have to grade from leaving the floor to clipping the chains. Easy climbing into a 7B probably ends up being 7B+...