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Topic split: Bouldery route grades (Read 8205 times)

shark

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Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:02:19 am
According to the UKC logbooks James Taylor's route Prisoners of the Sun, E10 has had a second ascent. Hidden logbook though so not sure who. My money would be on Angus Kille.

Jim Pope.

Interview with him here.

https://www.climber.co.uk/news/pope-gets-second-ascent-of-prisoners-of-the-sun/

Interesting comments, including:

- Only spent 45 mins on a top rope before the lead.
- Felt like an E8 6c experience.
- Maybe casting doubt on some of the E7s on that wall.

Jim's certainly feeling strong at the minute :strongbench:

Super impressive.

7c+ with a 7B+ section sounds an unlikely combination.

jwi

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#1 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:10:51 am

Super impressive.

7c+ with a 7B+ section sounds an unlikely combination.

Quite. I always thought a 7B+ to a trivial jug ladder (7a or whatever) is about 8a. But I am in no position to judge grades on very cruxy routes.

Liamhutch89

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#2 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:18:10 am
7B+ to a trivial jug ladder (7a or whatever) is about 8a.

Very keen to know the names of some of these routes for a potential quick 8a tick  :lol:

Bradders

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#3 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:27:20 am
7B+ to a trivial jug ladder (7a or whatever) is about 8a.

Very keen to know the names of some of these routes for a potential quick 8a tick  :lol:

Subculture  ;) :lol:

remus

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#4 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:32:07 am
Super impressive.

7c+ with a 7B+ section sounds an unlikely combination.

I assumed it was worded strangely and actually meant 7B+ in to 7c+ top section (which would fit with the route description and is more in line with the 8a/+/b overall grade suggested by others).

Kingy

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#5 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:46:28 am
Having read the UKC write up, Jim says: "I felt like it weighed in at around sport 7c+. Whatever that means! But like I said, I don't have much to compare it to within its style."

The write up goes on with: "Other climbers who have looked at the route have suggested the route's French grade is closer to 8a/+, but only time and more ascents will tell."

To me, Jim found it 7c+ (including a 7B+ boulder) but others have suggested its closer to 8a/+.

Dexter

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#6 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 11:49:35 am
7B+ to a trivial jug ladder (7a or whatever) is about 8a.

Very keen to know the names of some of these routes for a potential quick 8a tick  :lol:

Subculture  ;) :lol:

Isn't chimes meant to be around a 7B? 3 bolts with the first one/two ususally pre clipped.

jwi

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#7 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 12:09:54 pm
7B+ to a trivial jug ladder (7a or whatever) is about 8a.

Very keen to know the names of some of these routes for a potential quick 8a tick  :lol:

Hubble has been described as an 8B+* to a, relatively speaking, even more trivial top out (7c+ iirc, which should be akin to adventurous walking for the climber who can pull 8B+) and that apparently gets 9a

* The start boulder is "never 8B+ in a million years with knee bars” according to a well known international wizard who had a brief play on it before they were told in no uncertain terms that knee bars are forbidden

cheque

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#8 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 12:39:35 pm
Hubble really is the Indian Face of UKB isn’t it? Don’t let something as trivial as an entire number grade stop you shoehorning it (plus bonus kneebar trope) in jwi.  :lol:

I think Out of My Tree and Rattle & Hump might be the sort of thing you’re after Liam.



« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 12:45:21 pm by cheque »

Bradders

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#9 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:02:46 pm
I think Out of My Tree and Rattle & Hump might be the sort of thing you’re after Liam.

If there's one thing a full season of sport climbing has taught me, it's that there's a lot more to successfully climbing a route than just being able to do the hardest boulder problem on it; doesn't make the rest of it easy!

cheque

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#10 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:27:52 pm
I think Out of My Tree and Rattle & Hump might be the sort of thing you’re after Liam.

If there's one thing a full season of sport climbing has taught me, it's that there's a lot more to successfully climbing a route than just being able to do the hardest boulder problem on it; doesn't make the rest of it easy!

 :lol: I wasn’t saying that I personally subscribe to the “sport routes with boulder problem cruxes are easy” philosophy (I fell off A Little Extra after doing the hard bit on more than one occasion :look: ) just that those are short 8as with boulder problem cruxes.

IanP

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#11 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:37:16 pm
7B+ to a trivial jug ladder (7a or whatever) is about 8a.

Very keen to know the names of some of these routes for a potential quick 8a tick  :lol:

As a weak sport climber who has managed to stuggle up 2 or 3 soft touch 8a's (Defcon anyone  :worms:) , 7B+ sounds a  likely a bloody hard way to get a quick 8a tick  :-\

Bradders

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#12 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 10:50:27 pm
I think Out of My Tree and Rattle & Hump might be the sort of thing you’re after Liam.

If there's one thing a full season of sport climbing has taught me, it's that there's a lot more to successfully climbing a route than just being able to do the hardest boulder problem on it; doesn't make the rest of it easy!

 :lol: I wasn’t saying that I personally subscribe to the “sport routes with boulder problem cruxes are easy” philosophy (I fell off A Little Extra after doing the hard bit on more than one occasion :look: ) just that those are short 8as with boulder problem cruxes.

Yeah my post was more directed at Liam than yourself Cheque  :)

7B+ to a trivial jug ladder (7a or whatever) is about 8a.

Very keen to know the names of some of these routes for a potential quick 8a tick  :lol:

As a weak sport climber who has managed to stuggle up 2 or 3 soft touch 8a's (Defcon anyone  :worms:) , 7B+ sounds a  likely a bloody hard way to get a quick 8a tick  :-\

Depends on lots of factors doesn't it. I do genuinely reckon Subculture does work out roughly to a (very long - 17 moves or so) 7B+ boulder followed by 7a climbing to the top.

IanP

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#13 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 11:00:26 pm
7B+ to a trivial jug ladder (7a or whatever) is about 8a.

Very keen to know the names of some of these routes for a potential quick 8a tick  :lol:

As a weak sport climber who has managed to stuggle up 2 or 3 soft touch 8a's (Defcon anyone  :worms:) , 7B+ sounds a  likely a bloody hard way to get a quick 8a tick  :-\

Depends on lots of factors doesn't it. I do genuinely reckon Subculture does work out roughly to a (very long - 17 moves or so) 7B+ boulder followed by 7a climbing to the top.

I guess it possibly is though I've also heard slightly easier for the boulder grade - still too hard for me. My comment was very much from a personal perspective that climbing 7B+ (0) is harder than 8a (2), ymmv

Will Hunt

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#14 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 01, 2021, 11:01:36 pm
Sorry but no way is the start of Subculture that hard!
But also tricky to give a boulder grade to. I'd say it was a 7c or 7c+ to the rest.

tim palmer

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#15 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 08:04:34 am
This is all a bit  :offtopic: but entree at two tier,  about 7b+ then very straight forward

Kingy

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#16 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 08:58:29 am
It is absurd to think that Font 7B+ could be the crux of a 7c+, its far too hard for even the most bouldery route to be graded that easy (!) regardless of how easy the rest of it is, it would be at least 8a IMO. I reckon Jim doesn't really appreciate this and didn't really notice how hard the crux as it felt easy to him. Its problematic to grade something for somebody though...
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 09:06:34 am by Kingy »

Fultonius

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#17 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 09:35:59 am
It is absurd to think that Font 7B+ could be the crux of a 7c+, its far too hard for even the most bouldery route to be graded that easy (!) regardless of how easy the rest of it is, it would be at least 8a IMO. I reckon Jim doesn't really appreciate this and didn't really notice how hard the crux as it felt easy to him. Its problematic to grade something for somebody though...

The classic sandbags at Dumby are:

Omerta Fr7c: 

Quote
Start up Big Zipper Direct, passing 3 bolts (Possibly Font7b+ on its own). Rest on the ledge and continue up the RH side of the impressive arete above. Always needs a clean and is only F7c if you're an F8b climber...

And Dum Dum Boys Fr7c+:  Nope, scratch that, it's officially been regraded since hold loss to 8a+

And Tarrier F7c+: Harder than the (admittedly soft touch) F8a Sufferance. Stil not done it, but it it must get a pretty decent boulder grade for the lower crux? 7B?

Anyhoos....maybe this needs split?  How hard did you think the crux of Tarrier was @Adam Lincoln?










Doylo

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#18 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 09:48:19 am
Pete Robins thoughts on high E grades:

Quote
E8, E9, E10, E11 - none of it makes any sense. Why is everyone so stupid?

7B+/7c+ with highball start is all we need to know.

Even '7a' is ridiculous....covers font 7A-8A!


Doylo

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#19 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 10:11:25 am
It is absurd to think that Font 7B+ could be the crux of a 7c+, .

It obviously isn’t . One of them is wrong , maybe both.

Andy F

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#20 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 11:13:23 am
Gwennan at Dinbren (before it broke) was 7B/7B+ into a relative romp and was given 8a+ originally, but more like 7c+/8a

Kingy

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#21 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 11:17:00 am
I'm glad we're singing from the same hymn sheet then. Funny that there doesn't seem to be any guidance anywhere written down to delineate these matters.

E.g. just as an example for short bouldery routes where the main event is the crux:

Font 7A crux - French 7c...sorry can't think of one...
Font 7A+ - French 7c+ (The Pinch Test, Rubicon, The Maximum at Malham)
Font 7B - French 8a (Rattle and Hump/ Out of my Tree)
Font 7B+ - French 8a+ (Energy Vampire)
Font 7C - French 8b (Magnetic Fields/ Revelations)

Font 7C+ - French 8c (Make it Funky). Shame that Pump up the Power 8a+ breaks this system with a Font 7c+ crux!! albeit with next to no other climbing

Andy F

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#22 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 11:23:17 am
Chiseling at Malham is probably 7A into a romp and that's 7c

Bradders

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#23 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 12:17:08 pm
Sorry but no way is the start of Subculture that hard!
But also tricky to give a boulder grade to. I'd say it was a 7c or 7c+ to the rest.

On the basis that it's roughly two 7A/V6 boulder problems back to back with no rest. Then using the standard equation; (6+6+4)/2= V8 or 7B, rounding up because V8 is a weird grade.

It's probably just wrong to give it a boulder grade though really, 7c+ route makes more sense. It's never taken me 8 sessions to do any other 7B at least  :lol:

Bradders

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#24 Re: Topic split: Bouldery route grades
October 02, 2021, 12:22:29 pm
I'm glad we're singing from the same hymn sheet then. Funny that there doesn't seem to be any guidance anywhere written down to delineate these matters.

E.g. just as an example for short bouldery routes where the main event is the crux:

Font 7A crux - French 7c...sorry can't think of one...
Font 7A+ - French 7c+ (The Pinch Test, Rubicon, The Maximum at Malham)
Font 7B - French 8a (Rattle and Hump/ Out of my Tree)
Font 7B+ - French 8a+ (Energy Vampire)
Font 7C - French 8b (Magnetic Fields/ Revelations)

Font 7C+ - French 8c (Make it Funky). Shame that Pump up the Power 8a+ breaks this system with a Font 7c+ crux!! albeit with next to no other climbing

That all makes sense. As another example for 7A+ = 7c+; This is the Sea at Chee Dale Cornice is exactly this.

 

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