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Newsletter novels (Read 2211 times)

TobyD

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Newsletter novels
September 14, 2021, 11:45:36 am
Hi there everyone,

I've been writing a couple of bits of fiction which may turn into novellas or even novels depending on how they develop.

I wanted to try to gauge opinion on if paying for Substack newsletters is something that anyone on here would ever consider doing as a way to read fiction in instalments. This is definitely not a request for any commitments or with any expectations, it just seems as though it may present a workable alternative to traditional publication without going through agents and publishers.

I know that Salman Rushdie has said that he'd publish his next novel like this, and obviously people would go for this, but is this only going to fly  for nobel prize winners and world famous novelists?

Any opinions welcome,

cheers Toby

seankenny

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#1 Re: Newsletter novels
September 14, 2021, 12:03:57 pm
I have quite a lot on my plate with just my free Substack subscriptions! If your novel is any good I'll want to turn the pages, so would rather not have it in installments. I prefer a Kindle to my phone for reading actual books.

Cynical point of view - if it's not good enough to punt to an agent or a niche publisher, why are you trying to punt it to me?

Falling Down

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#2 Re: Newsletter novels
September 14, 2021, 12:09:01 pm
Sounds great Toby, I'm looking forward to reading it/them.

I've been reading Roy Wikinson's Dark Lustre, a book in published in six installments, throughout the year.  https://www.roywilkinson.co.uk/2020/11/16/dark-lustre-book-in-6-parts/.  You get each one in the post as it's published. I've enjoyed the reading and the anticipation of the next part arriving.

Go for it.


TobyD

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#3 Re: Newsletter novels
September 14, 2021, 07:44:06 pm
Thanks both of those opinions, it's all valuable information.

Sean, I wonder if publishing on substack is necessarily a barrier to later print/ kindle publication? Dickens managed the equivalent reasonably well!

moose

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#4 Re: Newsletter novels
September 14, 2021, 08:28:05 pm
Thanks both of those opinions, it's all valuable information.

Sean, I wonder if publishing on substack is necessarily a barrier to later print/ kindle publication? Dickens managed the equivalent reasonably well!

I can see the tabloid headline, "TobyD: I am the equal of Dickens".

Less facetiously, though, serial online publication, or any form of electronic only publication, of novels doesn't work for me.  I spend a lot of time at a PC writing reports, and far too much of my free time reading meaningless nonsense on the internet.  As a result, I value the interaction with the heft of a book - perhaps as it provides a distinct physical separation from work / web triviality and makes me feel I am doing something a bit more worthy (even if the book itself is pulp).

That said, I suspect I am in a very small, luddite minority, and a lot of people have no bias towards dead-tree based media.  Also, you don't have to be Dickens to make a successful serial to novel transfer.  IIRC the book the film The Martian was based on was originally a blog series by an unknown, that was collated into a novel (with emendations suggested by fans).

And, I seem to recall that there are other precedents for serial-to-book transitions: Stephen King published a few books as series (Green Mile?) of very thin paper novellas, and Capote's In Cold Blood, Wolfe's Bonfire of the Vanities, and some Hunter S Thompson books were originally series in magazines. 


andy popp

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#5 Re: Newsletter novels
September 14, 2021, 08:54:48 pm
and some Hunter S Thompson books were originally series in magazines.

Certainly, both Hells Angels and Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas began life as magazine commissions, for The Nation and Rolling Stone respectively. I think the latter was published in its entirety in RS before appearing as a book.

Yossarian

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#6 Re: Newsletter novels
September 14, 2021, 09:36:47 pm
Is there a reason you want to pursue the non agent / publisher route?

I would seriously encourage it, even if you end up finding it frustrating and decide upon another course of action.

My experiences might interest you, or might be entirely irrelevant.

I spent about 15 years desperately wanting to do books. I pitched a handful of non-fiction things in the early 2000s, then wrote a novel mid 2000s. The former I pitched directly to publishers, the latter I approached (very well-researched) agents. I got vey slightly further with the latter, even though the former was I think a slightly better idea. Despite that, neither of them went anywhere. I then gave up entirely, thinking the whole system was a massive con, and decided that if I ever did books again I'd do it on my own terms.

In around 2016-17 I did some design / illustration related stuff that I got some quite nice press for. I then discovered an email in my junk (which had been there for over a month) from a publisher asking if I wanted to do some illustrated kids books. I then got a three book deal, which led to 2 more books for another publisher, and a 6th for a non-kids book. None of these have been super £s, but there have been a few foreign editions and, having learned quite a lot more, I've now decided where I might aim next to try to do something that's (a) very fun to write and (b) might be a bit more £££.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are quite a few amazing self-publishing success stories, but I think they are few and far between. If you're going to invest the time in writing an amazing piece of work, I would still consider the old fashioned route. it might not work out, but you might get some decent feedback. And if it does work out, you then have a team of people to help turn your work into something much better.

A number of people asked me why I'd not self-published my novel after it was rejected. I am so so relived that I never did that, because in retrospect it really was quite shit!

TobyD

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#7 Re: Newsletter novels
September 14, 2021, 10:29:37 pm
Is there a reason you want to pursue the non agent / publisher route?

I would seriously encourage it, even if you end up finding it frustrating and decide upon another course of action.

My experiences might interest you, or might be entirely irrelevant.

I spent about 15 years desperately wanting to do books. I pitched a handful of non-fiction things in the early 2000s, then wrote a novel mid 2000s. The former I pitched directly to publishers, the latter I approached (very well-researched) agents. I got vey slightly further with the latter, even though the former was I think a slightly better idea. Despite that, neither of them went anywhere. I then gave up entirely, thinking the whole system was a massive con, and decided that if I ever did books again I'd do it on my own terms.

In around 2016-17 I did some design / illustration related stuff that I got some quite nice press for. I then discovered an email in my junk (which had been there for over a month) from a publisher asking if I wanted to do some illustrated kids books. I then got a three book deal, which led to 2 more books for another publisher, and a 6th for a non-kids book. None of these have been super £s, but there have been a few foreign editions and, having learned quite a lot more, I've now decided where I might aim next to try to do something that's (a) very fun to write and (b) might be a bit more £££.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are quite a few amazing self-publishing success stories, but I think they are few and far between. If you're going to invest the time in writing an amazing piece of work, I would still consider the old fashioned route. it might not work out, but you might get some decent feedback. And if it does work out, you then have a team of people to help turn your work into something much better.

A number of people asked me why I'd not self-published my novel after it was rejected. I am so so relived that I never did that, because in retrospect it really was quite shit!

Thank you,  that's both interesting and useful,  I'd definitely agree that an editor would be a considerable asset, and potentially able to turn what could have been mediocre or indeed shit writing into something much better.  I have been looking into it. Like anything in the media or arts, it seems that there's a lot of luck involved as well as persistence!

TobyD

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#8 Re: Newsletter novels
September 15, 2021, 07:35:23 am


I can see the tabloid headline, "TobyD: I am the equal of Dickens".

Just for clarification, I was trying to be self depreciating there!
I understand how you feel but for example some people find digital reading very useful if they commute on the tube, bus or train.

Falling Down

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#9 Re: Newsletter novels
September 15, 2021, 10:41:26 am
+1 to the editor considerations.

Yossarian

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#10 Re: Newsletter novels
September 15, 2021, 11:01:39 am
In my experience, editors largely like to feel that they've discovered something. Everyone is trying to give them stuff all the time, so try to figure out ways of putting something in front of them without pushing it in their face. Follow them on Twitter - that's prob the best advice for figuring them out and the things they like. Maybe follow some authors doing similar stuff to what you have in mind also. It's quite interesting what you pick up, and also who follows you back.

Agents are completely inundated with submissions. The quickest way to get them to bite is to have done something first or have something in the pipeline - i.e. if you have been talking to a publisher about a project that might encourage an agent to take you on a lot more readily.

I had a deal on the table so getting my first agent wasn't hard, but I picked the wrong person and ended up dumping him. I then had 2 more who dumped me. I now have one for kids stuff and one for non kids stuff who are total legends. For various reasons (mainly chronic procrastination and distraction which I am trying to address currently) I've not really fully taken advantage of either of them yet, but the next things I do will definitely do so.

Rocksteady

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#11 Re: Newsletter novels
September 15, 2021, 11:19:29 am
In the last year I've dived into the world of indie publishing - there are lots of people on reddit publishing novels in instalments that they use to build a following.

You could easily self-publish in short format on Kindle tbh or on your own website to use as reader magnets in advance of publishing something else.

Rocksteady

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#12 Re: Newsletter novels
September 15, 2021, 11:38:20 am
Also if you aren't aware of this it's well worth looking into for the format you suggest?
https://www.patreon.com/

Steve R

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#13 Re: Newsletter novels
September 15, 2021, 12:34:48 pm
No industry insights to offer but from the perspective of a lay person / end user, I'm with Moose, physical book is still my preferred medium for reading.  Kindle next best and almost as good.  Wouldn't attempt to read anything long and fictional on phone or laptop personally - harder on the eyes and think I'd just get distracted all the time, checking ukb etc...   

seankenny

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#14 Re: Newsletter novels
September 15, 2021, 03:19:43 pm
Thanks both of those opinions, it's all valuable information.

Once again I was reminded that Ben is far more avant garde than I will ever be!

Sean, I wonder if publishing on substack is necessarily a barrier to later print/ kindle publication? Dickens managed the equivalent reasonably well!

I mean, I guess not, but they are perhaps two slightly different audiences.

Less facetiously, though, serial online publication, or any form of electronic only publication, of novels doesn't work for me.  I spend a lot of time at a PC writing reports, and far too much of my free time reading meaningless nonsense on the internet.  As a result, I value the interaction with the heft of a book - perhaps as it provides a distinct physical separation from work / web triviality and makes me feel I am doing something a bit more worthy (even if the book itself is pulp).


This is basically me. Even if it's a book on a Kindle, the important thing is it's not on the internet.

I'm also a big fan of editors, it's amazing what an editor with a good sensibility can do. Also there's value in getting work ready for someone in a gatekeeper role, even if the work itself is rejected - which hopefully it won't be.

 

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