UKBouldering.com

Keeping route Fitness up over winter (Read 4197 times)

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 13, 2021, 07:46:56 pm
What’s the most fun way of keeping fit over winter on a shallow (25 degree) board?

I know I won't stick to a specific training plan (tried and failed too many times) but I’m keen to try and keep/improve my sport climbing fitness over winter as well as trying harder problems.

I’ve got an easy circuit for warming up, a bunch of boulder problems of varying difficulty and campus rungs.  Obviously I can make new problems / longer circuits too.

I think I’d likely stick to something more that’s was like actual climbing so I’ve been thinking of things like doing a problem, then continuing into the circuit, do another problem, do the circuit etc. Then when it gets too hard, trying to recover on some holds and then starting to add more problems on after. Or starting to try and recover on smaller holds.

It probably wouldn’t be as successful as doing lots of aerocap/4x4’s etc, but I think that I’m way more likely to do something like this.

So it’s probably a stupid question, but if anyone could offer any advice on this type of thing it would be really appreciated (i know nothing about training…).

For example, would there be much difference between trying to make long, consistent circuits (e.g. more like foot-on-campus style), compared to say harder boulder, easy circuit, harder boulder, easy circuit, harder boulder (and trying to rest/get something back between them).

At the moment I’m really enjoying progressing through the sport grades by just climbing (and the odd board session thrown in) and I’m also enjoying the lack of injuries this seems to be causing (vs. When I’ve tried to train more). So I’d love to be able to keep that kind of improvement up, but with a bit of an idea of how to try and structure the problems/circuits that I’m trying.

Any thoughts or advice would be welcomed. Probably a badly written post too so hopefully you get what I’m meaning!

rjtrials

Offline
  • *
  • regular
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: +3/-4
#1 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 16, 2021, 01:32:37 pm
Doing many boulder repeats over a long session works well for the type of routes I climb (bouldery with decent rests).  If the routes you climb have longer 'cruxy' sections, tailor the length of your boulders appropriately.

Having the ability to recover aerobically from a power output is very useful for sending sport climbs.

A good rule of thumb is 4-6x rest for the work being done.  Every Minute On the Minute (EMOM) is a great starting protocol for 6-8 move boulders.  Gradually make your EMOM sessions longer and longer with a shorter 'recovery' session every third or fourth.

Choose boulders you can do every time when fresh but still require focus and effort.  Climb with intention and good breathwork.  Recover with nasal breathing only.

I used the table in this articlehttps://www.strongfirst.com/where-do-you-go-after-simple/ for a 6 week EMOM training period.  I felt like I couldn't fall off of anything for a few months afterword. 

Wood FT

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2951
  • Karma: +162/-8
#2 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 16, 2021, 05:47:41 pm
5 mins on 3 mins off x 3

1 min on 1 min off x 10

Trance music and make-believe helps

nai

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4008
  • Karma: +206/-1
  • In my dreams
#3 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 16, 2021, 07:05:07 pm
Essential: 3x10mins low intensity, not getting pumped. 50 minutes. Can be done after a session, being out or even on a rest day.  Very boring. no amont of trance will help

Desirable: 10x 1min on/off. Can be FoC, get pumped but don't fail. 20 minutes, end of session, after being out

Optional but effective, maybe add it in January:  AnCap. 3 sets of 4x45s/12 moves, 2-4 times rest, 5 mins between sets. about 40 minutes total.  Can be done end of a short boulder session, second day on or with conditioning. Does feel like training but is lots of fun.  Liklely to need a rest day afterwards

This has worked for me and fitted in around boludering and training ok

Or just have fun, get stronger and then pack it all in come March when motovation returns

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
#4 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 21, 2021, 11:18:40 pm
Doing many boulder repeats over a long session works well for the type of routes I climb (bouldery with decent rests).  If the routes you climb have longer 'cruxy' sections, tailor the length of your boulders appropriately.

Having the ability to recover aerobically from a power output is very useful for sending sport climbs.

A good rule of thumb is 4-6x rest for the work being done.  Every Minute On the Minute (EMOM) is a great starting protocol for 6-8 move boulders.  Gradually make your EMOM sessions longer and longer with a shorter 'recovery' session every third or fourth.

Choose boulders you can do every time when fresh but still require focus and effort.  Climb with intention and good breathwork.  Recover with nasal breathing only.

I used the table in this articlehttps://www.strongfirst.com/where-do-you-go-after-simple/ for a 6 week EMOM training period.  I felt like I couldn't fall off of anything for a few months afterword.

Sounds like that could be fun/torturous! Getting up to 44 minutes sounds hard!

Did you find that you had to adjust the intensity much? Or did you just choose one problem and stick with it over the 6 weeks?

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
#5 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 21, 2021, 11:19:44 pm
5 mins on 3 mins off x 3

1 min on 1 min off x 10

Trance music and make-believe helps

I guess these are on easy and harder things, respectively?

Got some good trance mixes to help
With them!

James Malloch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1686
  • Karma: +62/-1
#6 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 21, 2021, 11:22:12 pm
Essential: 3x10mins low intensity, not getting pumped. 50 minutes. Can be done after a session, being out or even on a rest day.  Very boring. no amont of trance will help

Desirable: 10x 1min on/off. Can be FoC, get pumped but don't fail. 20 minutes, end of session, after being out

Optional but effective, maybe add it in January:  AnCap. 3 sets of 4x45s/12 moves, 2-4 times rest, 5 mins between sets. about 40 minutes total.  Can be done end of a short boulder session, second day on or with conditioning. Does feel like training but is lots of fun.  Liklely to need a rest day afterwards

This has worked for me and fitted in around boludering and training ok

Or just have fun, get stronger and then pack it all in come March when motovation returns

That’s really useful, thanks. Good to have the times + when it’s useful to do it. Makes it easy to think about when it can be fit in with a board session. Or when to cut a session short a bit to fit something structured like that in.

rjtrials

Offline
  • *
  • regular
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: +3/-4
#7 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 01:39:07 pm
Doing many boulder repeats over a long session works well for the type of routes I climb (bouldery with decent rests).  If the routes you climb have longer 'cruxy' sections, tailor the length of your boulders appropriately.

Having the ability to recover aerobically from a power output is very useful for sending sport climbs.

A good rule of thumb is 4-6x rest for the work being done.  Every Minute On the Minute (EMOM) is a great starting protocol for 6-8 move boulders.  Gradually make your EMOM sessions longer and longer with a shorter 'recovery' session every third or fourth.

Choose boulders you can do every time when fresh but still require focus and effort.  Climb with intention and good breathwork.  Recover with nasal breathing only.

I used the table in this articlehttps://www.strongfirst.com/where-do-you-go-after-simple/ for a 6 week EMOM training period.  I felt like I couldn't fall off of anything for a few months afterword.

Sounds like that could be fun/torturous! Getting up to 44 minutes sounds hard!

Did you find that you had to adjust the intensity much? Or did you just choose one problem and stick with it over the 6 weeks?

I was climbing on the 2019 Moon setup.  There were many problems available with relatively good holds that needed lots of body tension.  This is my preferred style for any style of repeats as your body absorbs a lot of the effort and therefore your work isn't limited to hand/grip fatigue.

I had a list of 30+ boulders that I would use, and therefore did very little of repeating a boulder in a session, but repeated boulders every session.  Very quickly you realize which boulders you can't do when they are deeper into the session and which you can, so I shuffled the list a bit to make sure i had more successes and fewer failures.

In real money, I was probably climbing on mostly v4-6 boulders and did 8a-8b routes shortly after the training cycle.

I am not usually able to recover 'power' or really strength on jugs, usually needing to climb super efficiently to have enough in the tank to do boulders higher on a route.  After this cycle it was completely the opposite!  It didn't matter if I was pumped or fatigued, any sort of reasonably good hold completely reset the power and I was able to keep smashing boulders.  It was insane.  It's hard to understate how totally different my body was energy system wise on routes.

shark

Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8697
  • Karma: +625/-17
  • insect overlord #1
#8 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 02:28:57 pm
Are you saying that you managed or got close to managing 44 x V4-6 Moonboard board problems on the minute?  :o

rjtrials

Offline
  • *
  • regular
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: +3/-4
#9 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 04:33:03 pm
Are you saying that you managed or got close to managing 44 x V4-6 Moonboard board problems on the minute?  :o

Yes, but in real grades. not BenchMark grades.  It was over the course of 6 weeks and I did little else than that specific program.

I did an 8b I had tried for a couple of different seasons, never really that close, in two sessions.  V6 off the deck, resistant mid 12 section to a good rest. v7 in a roof, ok rest, resistant 12+ section, strenuous rest, v7 redpoint crux.

I had two double 513 days (which for me are so rare as to be almost non-existent.) The second of those days I checked out an 8a+ linkup that I was expecting to be a multi-day project and fired it second try as pitch 8 of the day.

The downside of the cycle was that as a peaking program, i peaked earlier than the good part of the season, but still managed to get a fair number of projects ticked in a short period of time.

spidermonkey09

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2815
  • Karma: +159/-4
#10 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 04:44:39 pm
I did an 8b I had tried for a couple of different seasons, never really that close, in two sessions.  V6 off the deck, resistant mid 12 section to a good rest. v7 in a roof, ok rest, resistant 12+ section, strenuous rest, v7 redpoint crux.


This sounds like a fucking nails 8b to me! Is my grading calculator wrong?

Duma

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5751
  • Karma: +226/-4
#11 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 04:45:33 pm
513??

also what SM09 said!!

jwi

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4219
  • Karma: +331/-1
    • On Steep Ground
#12 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 07:00:58 pm
I did an 8b I had tried for a couple of different seasons, never really that close, in two sessions.  V6 off the deck, resistant mid 12 section to a good rest. v7 in a roof, ok rest, resistant 12+ section, strenuous rest, v7 redpoint crux.


This sounds like a fucking nails 8b to me! Is my grading calculator wrong?

+2. Sounds like 8b without the v7 rp crux at then end? v7, that is hard Font 7a+ right?

rjtrials

Offline
  • *
  • regular
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: +3/-4
#13 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 07:12:17 pm
I did an 8b I had tried for a couple of different seasons, never really that close, in two sessions.  V6 off the deck, resistant mid 12 section to a good rest. v7 in a roof, ok rest, resistant 12+ section, strenuous rest, v7 redpoint crux.


This sounds like a fucking nails 8b to me! Is my grading calculator wrong?

+2. Sounds like 8b without the v7 rp crux at then end? v7, that is hard Font 7a+ right?

Southern US sandstone.  so the boulders are harder but the rests are much more forgiving than limestone routes.

Also, the new grades in Chattanooga are nails.

Bradders

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2785
  • Karma: +135/-3
#14 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 07:22:57 pm
Are you saying that you managed or got close to managing 44 x V4-6 Moonboard board problems on the minute?  :o

I've done this a few times over the last year or so in different phases, mainly on set boulders at the Depot but also on a board. Definitely helped my overall capacity, and my route fitness went from totally non-existent to just poor. Grade used will obviously be what's appropriate for the climber but needs to be around onsight level, not failing at all but not far off.

spidermonkey09

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2815
  • Karma: +159/-4
#15 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 07:26:43 pm
I did an 8b I had tried for a couple of different seasons, never really that close, in two sessions.  V6 off the deck, resistant mid 12 section to a good rest. v7 in a roof, ok rest, resistant 12+ section, strenuous rest, v7 redpoint crux.


This sounds like a fucking nails 8b to me! Is my grading calculator wrong?

+2. Sounds like 8b without the v7 rp crux at then end? v7, that is hard Font 7a+ right?

Glad it's not just me. 8b+ all day long! Good effort rjtrials!

Duma

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5751
  • Karma: +226/-4
#16 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
September 22, 2021, 08:37:52 pm
513??

also what SM09 said!!

Just worked out you're in the states so that's 5.13 I guess.

Rocksteady

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Crank
  • Posts: 677
  • Karma: +45/-0
  • Hotter than the sun!
#17 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
October 01, 2021, 11:07:08 am
Are you saying that you managed or got close to managing 44 x V4-6 Moonboard board problems on the minute?  :o

I've done this a few times over the last year or so in different phases, mainly on set boulders at the Depot but also on a board. Definitely helped my overall capacity, and my route fitness went from totally non-existent to just poor. Grade used will obviously be what's appropriate for the climber but needs to be around onsight level, not failing at all but not far off.

This Boulder Every Minute on the Minute sounds really appealing.

Anyone got an opinion on what energy system it's training?

rjtrials

Offline
  • *
  • regular
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: +3/-4
#18 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
October 01, 2021, 03:25:31 pm
Are you saying that you managed or got close to managing 44 x V4-6 Moonboard board problems on the minute?  :o

I've done this a few times over the last year or so in different phases, mainly on set boulders at the Depot but also on a board. Definitely helped my overall capacity, and my route fitness went from totally non-existent to just poor. Grade used will obviously be what's appropriate for the climber but needs to be around onsight level, not failing at all but not far off.

This Boulder Every Minute on the Minute sounds really appealing.

Anyone got an opinion on what energy system it's training?

If the boulders are 'hard enough' they should deplete a fair amount of ATP in the system which then is replenished by the aerobic system.  This is trying to bypass the glycolytic system and has been dubbed 'anti-glycolytic training.'

You should never be pumped but should be fighting the 'powered out' feeling.

 

Bradders

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2785
  • Karma: +135/-3
#19 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
October 01, 2021, 03:44:43 pm
Are you saying that you managed or got close to managing 44 x V4-6 Moonboard board problems on the minute?  :o

I've done this a few times over the last year or so in different phases, mainly on set boulders at the Depot but also on a board. Definitely helped my overall capacity, and my route fitness went from totally non-existent to just poor. Grade used will obviously be what's appropriate for the climber but needs to be around onsight level, not failing at all but not far off.

This Boulder Every Minute on the Minute sounds really appealing.

Anyone got an opinion on what energy system it's training?

If the boulders are 'hard enough' they should deplete a fair amount of ATP in the system which then is replenished by the aerobic system.  This is trying to bypass the glycolytic system and has been dubbed 'anti-glycolytic training.'

You should never be pumped but should be fighting the 'powered out' feeling.

Spot on, exactly my understanding of it.

Aussiegav

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 677
  • Karma: +29/-10
    • Climberbiker.
#20 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
October 01, 2021, 03:53:21 pm
I’ve been doing this session on the 25degree moon board.
20 prob/20mins (2 sets - 10 min rest between sets).

Alternatively 30probs in 30mins


The Moonboard App Timers (beta) function is great for this.

jwi

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4219
  • Karma: +331/-1
    • On Steep Ground
#21 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
October 01, 2021, 05:33:14 pm
Are people reinventing the circuits of Fontainebleau? If so, Gaston Rebuffat and his friends have already shown that they work as preparation for alpine routes.

Wood FT

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2951
  • Karma: +162/-8
#22 Re: Keeping route Fitness up over winter
October 01, 2021, 07:03:45 pm
Are you saying that you managed or got close to managing 44 x V4-6 Moonboard board problems on the minute?  :o

I've done this a few times over the last year or so in different phases, mainly on set boulders at the Depot but also on a board. Definitely helped my overall capacity, and my route fitness went from totally non-existent to just poor. Grade used will obviously be what's appropriate for the climber but needs to be around onsight level, not failing at all but not far off.

This Boulder Every Minute on the Minute sounds really appealing.

Anyone got an opinion on what energy system it's training?

Aero-Pow

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal