UKBouldering.com

Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham (Read 56015 times)

gme

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1805
  • Karma: +147/-6
#250 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 01:12:20 pm
This thread is approaching a new low point for the site, a bitter, armchair critic, old mans club, low point.

Neils done more for UK climbing than the rest of us put together and whilst he can come over as overtly commercial for many tastes i have no idea how you all think he deserves the shit talk that has being going on in this thread.

Hes gone out of his way to climb what looks like a great route, good enough for Steve and Dave mc to make the effort to go try it, hes given it a grade based on what he thinks but that people doubt and might, with time, be proved to be wrong (didn't everyones hero Megos just do the same, wrote loads about it and even made a film) and wrote a bit of a long winded piece that may or may not be to peoples taste and now hes a drug taking, over grading cheat. WTF.

And re his amazing strength gains in his 50s what a crock of shit. If i lost a stone through dieting i could hang the beastmaker edge for 10 secs and do one armers no problem at all which would be a PB, its not hard and i would guess theirs loads of 50+ people could do it. Neils never been a strong boulderer so it no surprise that with a bit of focus and loosing a load of weight hes managed to do what loads of 7C boulders can do.


wasbeen

Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 188
  • Karma: +8/-0
#251 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 01:25:49 pm
People generally admire natural talent more than hard work and grafting.  Not entirely sure why. Perhaps it holds a mirror to ourselfs as to what we could achieve if we were more pshyced, disciplined, hard working etc.



IS2

Offline
  • **
  • addict
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +10/-0
#252 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 01:28:33 pm
The idea that you can’t get stronger over 30 or 40 or whatever, seems flawed…. I’m very old,71, and changed how I train for single hand lock off in January, after many years of training two handed with added weights.
Previous max 20mm edge two hands was BW plus 25kg … total 85kg. Started single hang 15mm edge in Jan at 37kg, today I did 50kg Right hand and 47kg left hand. ( was close to this in May but been climbing lots so it dropped off, started training it again at the start of Sept).

No drugs involved, just a change of training protocol.

Obviously I’ve been training ( this particular ability ) sub optimally for the last 40 years. I suspect sub optimal training is endemic in climbing training even among among elite climbers.

Wellsy

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1405
  • Karma: +102/-8
#253 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 01:29:52 pm
This thread is approaching a new low point for the site, a bitter, armchair critic, old mans club, low point.

Neils done more for UK climbing than the rest of us put together and whilst he can come over as overtly commercial for many tastes i have no idea how you all think he deserves the shit talk that has being going on in this thread.

Hes gone out of his way to climb what looks like a great route, good enough for Steve and Dave mc to make the effort to go try it, hes given it a grade based on what he thinks but that people doubt and might, with time, be proved to be wrong (didn't everyones hero Megos just do the same, wrote loads about it and even made a film) and wrote a bit of a long winded piece that may or may not be to peoples taste and now hes a drug taking, over grading cheat. WTF.

And re his amazing strength gains in his 50s what a crock of shit. If i lost a stone through dieting i could hang the beastmaker edge for 10 secs and do one armers no problem at all which would be a PB, its not hard and i would guess theirs loads of 50+ people could do it. Neils never been a strong boulderer so it no surprise that with a bit of focus and loosing a load of weight hes managed to do what loads of 7C boulders can do.

I don't think he's a cheat or an overgrader. I like Gresham, he's done nails stuff, he has done loads for British climbing as you say, and he seems like a good bloke.

nik at work

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3586
  • Karma: +312/-2
#254 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 01:35:01 pm
Bon effort to Gresham

Otherwise what Gav said.

Paul B

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 9626
  • Karma: +264/-4
#255 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 01:48:58 pm
And re his amazing strength gains in his 50s what a crock of shit. If i lost a stone through dieting i could hang the beastmaker edge for 10 secs and do one armers no problem at all which would be a PB, its not hard and i would guess theirs loads of 50+ people could do it. Neils never been a strong boulderer so it no surprise that with a bit of focus and loosing a load of weight hes managed to do what loads of 7C boulders can do.

The hardest thing I've found to believe on this thread is that the bloke that wrote all of the training articles for OTE I consumed as youth wasn't able to do that many one armers until this point in life. It feels a bit like Ste Mc saying he couldn't do one which seemed entirely more likely to be haven't tried/not bothered!

Andy B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1838
  • Karma: +97/-3
  • fishie in a dishie
#256 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 01:59:55 pm
Wot Gav and Bonjoy said.

andy popp

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5525
  • Karma: +347/-5
#257 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 02:44:21 pm
I agree that the thread has taken a sorry turn. The UKC press release/report was certainly not to my taste, and in ways that were about more than just the style or choice of words. But I don't think anyone could ever doubt Neil's commitment, motivation and passion. It doesn't look like the most amazing line in the world, but I have no real opinion on the quality of route or the grade. How could I. I've seen that wall once nearly 40 years ago and whatever grade it is, it's miles above anything I was ever capable of. Some of the speculation on the grade was informed, but much of it was not. The accusations of use of PED are too much. If Malc has genuine grounds for thinking that's what happened then he should say so. At the moment he's just providing cover for others to speculate on no real basis.

abarro81

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4289
  • Karma: +341/-25
#258 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 02:46:53 pm
+1 to Gav's post

Paul - I remember Steve getting an injured finger many years back (maybe 2012 or so?), and going from "I can't do a one armer" to doing 2 or 3 with perfect form in a row with a pause at the bottom in between... In about 2 weeks... It was very apparent that "I can't" meant "I've never really tried properly". P.s. it's very possible to write nerdy things about training and be unable to smash out multiple one armers!

steveri

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 565
  • Karma: +33/-0
  • More average than you
    • Some poor pictures
#259 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 02:58:21 pm
I've a feeling the comment from Malcolm Smith was take out of context. I can't find it now but there was a couple of follow ups between NG and MS along the lines of 'I put it down to this and this', 'nice work, you've done well', 'I train better and harder than when we used to train together years ago'. I'm not sure there *was* an accusatory subtext.

I can't find the comments now and wonder if they've been deleted because of the way this thing has grown legs and been (mis)read??

Paul B

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 9626
  • Karma: +264/-4
#260 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 03:13:51 pm
P.s. it's very possible to write nerdy things about training and be unable to smash out multiple one armers!

Yeah completely, but the image given off by the OTE articles wasn't one of someone buried in the nerdy details of training but someone who trained (a LOT).

Steveri, I think you should take a look at the comments on others posts further back. They're there and Bonjoy is on the money!

ali k

Offline
  • ****
  • junky
  • Posts: 944
  • Karma: +38/-1
#261 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 03:30:34 pm
Just for the avoidance of doubt my comment about Gresh, Mcclure and Macleod all having to take steroids to climb this new E9 and that it being related to Brexit was said tongue in cheek.

I think they’re all great. Except Brexit.

Pantontino

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3327
  • Karma: +97/-1
    • www.northwalesbouldering.com
#262 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 03:47:22 pm
My seconds were out of sight, and way down the wall as I look the ropes in, and I was amazed to see the middle marker just as the rope came tight.  Yep, the massive 37m 2nd pitch of Redshift is actually 25m…

Neil

Sure they're not 60s?

Yep - definitely a pair of 50s (the same pair I've been climbing on for the last few years)


This does remind me that what has been missing from the coverage of this route is the sort of sober analysis and depth of context we used to get in Rock Notes.

 :-[  :lol:

Hands up, I made a mistake there (both in NWR and GS). It was in the '88 CC Gogarth guide as 37m and I didn't spot the error. Daft really as it's dead obvious that it's not that long when you look at the topo.

roddersm

Offline
  • ***
  • stalker
  • Posts: 296
  • Karma: +2/-1
#263 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 03:54:48 pm
I've a feeling the comment from Malcolm Smith was take out of context. I can't find it now but there was a couple of follow ups between NG and MS along the lines of 'I put it down to this and this', 'nice work, you've done well', 'I train better and harder than when we used to train together years ago'. I'm not sure there *was* an accusatory subtext.

I can't find the comments now and wonder if they've been deleted because of the way this thing has grown legs and been (mis)read??

Malc's account looks to have been suspended/removed, hence any comments deleted.

Edit: it is back up minus the steroid post...

Nibile

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 7991
  • Karma: +743/-4
  • Part Animal Part Machine
    • TOTOLORE
#264 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 05:16:23 pm
Nibile: Usyk KO 11 for my money
Do you mean Usyk wins by ko or loses by ko?

teestub

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2574
  • Karma: +166/-4
  • Cyber Wanker

Wellsy

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1405
  • Karma: +102/-8
#266 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 06:34:30 pm
Cool write-up. Sounds like a sick effort.

Doylo

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 6694
  • Karma: +442/-7
#267 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 06:42:51 pm
Bunch of cunts.

Oldmanmatt

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7097
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#268 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 06:58:57 pm
Bunch of cunts.

Giggle.

I’m 50.
Not climbing much, at the mo, but still training hard; if not climbing specific.
The only PED I’m using is Ibuprofen which allows me to almost function the day after a heavy session.
I’m setting benchmarks which exceed my own PB’s in my 20s. Pushed a 170kg bench yesterday, 10 higher than I’ve ever done before. Last time I lifted seriously was early 90s.
I can hold an Iron Cross on the rings, again, not since about ‘94 and I’m 9kg heavier than I was then.
I have been training these things since January.
I’ve been a personal trainer and coach for about ten years now, but I’ve always trained hard and gone hard in the things I do.
I’ve just learned more and evolved over time. The whole field has (regardless of the specific sport).

shark

Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8697
  • Karma: +625/-17
  • insect overlord #1
#269 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 07:58:28 pm
I’m setting benchmarks which exceed my own PB’s in my 20s. Pushed a 170kg bench yesterday, 10 higher than I’ve ever done before. Last time I lifted seriously was early 90s.

I don’t know anything about bench but do you mean lbs ?

Oldmanmatt

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7097
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#270 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 08:28:17 pm
Nope. 😁 I am training hard.
I did 122.6 (don’t ask about the .6) to failure on Tuesday, to predict my 1rm and managed 9 reps. That indicated a 158/59 1rm. So I went for it on Wed, and because I just felt good, I put an extra ten on.
Surprised I didn’t pop a vein in m’ brain, but still here.

2xBW.

mark s

Offline
  • ****
  • junky
  • Posts: 862
  • Karma: +78/-4
#271 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 08:46:07 pm
Going around pointing the "you are on steroids" stick around isn't very clever.
I have had it in the past to which my answer was yeah so fucking what. If people want to say its cheating, that's their opinion, I disagree. Im open about my bodybuilding past. 3 years ago I was still climbing bits and bobs while going to the gym alot. I was twice as strong as I am now but climbed like a complete fucking punter.
Of course older climbers can climb harder than before. I'm getting better than I was before and I haven't touched gear for over 2 years. I'm weaker but lighter.

Well done Neil and Steve for the quick repeat and I'm sure Franco will do it at some point

cheque

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3389
  • Karma: +522/-2
    • Cheque Pictures
#272 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 09:31:42 pm
Great post gme.

a bitter, armchair critic, old man

I know he’s traditionally a pin-up for this forum but this is certainly how Malc Smith comes across recently. Young lad climbs Hubble? Doesn’t count ‘cos he used a kneepad. Older climbers do a new high-profile trad route? Must be on steroids.  ::)

You’d think someone who’d climbed at the cutting edge himself would feel secure enough to be humble when other climbers do well, at least in public.

Liamhutch89

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1262
  • Karma: +87/-1
#273 Re: Lexicon, E11 7a FA for Neil Gresham
September 23, 2021, 10:07:34 pm
Nibile: Usyk KO 11 for my money
Do you mean Usyk wins by ko or loses by ko?

I fancy Usyk to win by KO, which I'm aware is not a very popular prediction, but I see a referee stoppage with Joshua out on his feet. I've been an Usyk fanboy since he was in the amateurs, so could be biased, but I do like Joshua too. Great fight.

Pushed a 170kg bench yesterday


Mutant

lagerstarfish

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Weapon Of Mass
  • Posts: 8810
  • Karma: +812/-10
  • "There's no cure for being a c#nt"

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal