[haydn jones]

If a guidebook said a pitch I was about to try was 33m I’d expect it to be around 25-30.

This has not been my experience when climbing in the USA (or generally outside of the UK).

Perhaps I should have made it clear - UK guidebooks overestimate trad route lengths. Always, no exceptions.
(Typed from a valley in Sligo with amazing undeveloped 50, no 60, no 70m cliffs!)

I always work on this assumption with the read route too but I came really close to getting caught out last week at haytor. It said aviation was 35 meters long but on my 45 I only had less than 5 meters spare if that

[cheque]

guidebook pitch lengths are a nominal length, the reality usually being very different. Probably comes partly from a concern about people abbing or lowering off ends of ropes because ‘the guide said it’s only 25m..’

That’s certainly why Rockfax only have rough height markers at arbitrary points on their topos rather than giving a definite length for each route these days.

[Nails]

I always thought that was because they couldn't be arsed to research anything properly or actually at all.

[Neil F]

I led P2 of Redshift on Red Wall yesterday. It’s a brilliant, absorbing piece of climbing, with loads of interesting moves, tricky route finding, and the usual Red Wall atmosphere.  It feels like a big lead, in more ways than one, not surprising for a 37m pitch of Gogarth’s finest!

Except that it isn’t.

My seconds were out of sight, and way down the wall as I look the ropes in, and I was amazed to see the middle marker just as the rope came tight.  Yep, the massive 37m 2nd pitch of Redshift is actually 25m…

Neil

[seankenny]

If it is Blixt's guidebook to Kvaløya and it says that a pitch is 60m I would expect to be able to reach the belay with 60m doubles and some ten metres of simul climbing.

Totally off topic, but is Kvaløya good? Or rather, is it as good as people make out, and given a choice of there or Lofoten, which would you prefer? (I'm making the not outrageous assumption that you've been to Lofoten...) I've fancied a trip there for ages but don't know anyone who's actually been.

[jwi]

Totally off topic, but is Kvaløya good? Or rather, is it as good as people make out, and given a choice of there or Lofoten, which would you prefer? (I'm making the not outrageous assumption that you've been to Lofoten...) I've fancied a trip there for ages but don't know anyone who's actually been.

Kvaløya is a lot more arctic than Lofoten. A lot more. Colder and grimmer but with brighter light during the nights. In my experience it is more common to get long spells of good weather on Lofoten than on Kvaløya. The best routes on Kvaløya are better than the best routes on Lofoten. There are much more routes on Lofoten than on Kvaløya, but maybe not more quality long routes from 7a and up (that might have changed, but not likely). If the weather totally craps out, Lofoten has a sector of rain-protected sport climbing (sort of) but on Kvaløya you would be out of luck.

I have had better experiences on Kvaløya both climbing and nature wise, but I would recommend people to go to Lofoten. If you have a car you could start on Lofoten and if there is a 4-5 day stable weather window drive up to Kvaløya, run up to Hollendaren and do two-three routes there. They would likely be better than anything you would find on Lofoten. (This supposes that you do not do Aleksis or anything else on the shoulder, but rather routes like Svart Hav, Thanatos, Ikaros, Gemini or Halvmanerisset)

Lofoten has single pitch trad, but on Kvaløya there is very little of that (a few routes scattered on the main sport climbing sectors).

[seankenny]

Thanks for the beta, very useful.

[IanP]

So Ste Mac has done it.  Whatever the grade, super impressive to see him so psyched and still crushing at the highest levels.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUGKwg9I08O/?utm_medium=copy_link

[teestub]

Rope protector dab there 😄

In terms of E10’s and above, I wonder if Steve has done more than anyone else? Rhapsody, the Nesscliffe one, a couple in Pembrokeshire, now this (prob missing some others too).

[remus]

In terms of E10’s and above, I wonder if Steve has done more than anyone else? Rhapsody, the Nesscliffe one, a couple in Pembrokeshire, now this (prob missing some others too).

Pretty sure you've got them all there. Dave Mac, James Pearson and Gresh are the other contenders I can think of.
Pete Whittaker is another contender, depending on what you think Recovery Drink gets as an E grade. Obvs there's also people like Caff who've got a huge depth at E9 but not much harder.

For ref:
https://climbing-history.org/climber/129/steve-mcclure

https://climbing-history.org/climber/146/dave-macleod

https://climbing-history.org/climber/153/james-pearson

https://climbing-history.org/climber/173/neil-gresham

https://climbing-history.org/climber/166/pete-whittaker

[andy moles]

Dave Mac's 'Die by the Drop' at Glen Shian? Sounds like a pretty squished eliminate, but still.

He's also done Hold Fast, Hold True.

[remus]

Good knowledge as per, I've updated the list.

[colin8ll]

Did Dave Mac actually go back and finish Hold Fast, Hold True? Very impressive if so, considering the nasty fall he took.

[SA Chris]

Good question, not sure he did. Definitely did FA of Hold Fast (E9), but not sure about completing HFHT

[Bradders]

So Ste Mac has done it.  Whatever the grade, super impressive to see him so psyched and still crushing at the highest levels.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUGKwg9I08O/?utm_medium=copy_link

Seems like every man and his dog's on it atm.

[Johnny Brown]

My seconds were out of sight, and way down the wall as I look the ropes in, and I was amazed to see the middle marker just as the rope came tight.  Yep, the massive 37m 2nd pitch of Redshift is actually 25m…

Neil

Sure they're not 60s?

This does remind me that what has been missing from the coverage of this route is the sort of sober analysis and depth of context we used to get in Rock Notes.

[steveri]

Seems like every man and his dog's on it atm.

/adds to Fiend's dog friendly crag list.

"The recent scenes on Lexicon have been unprecedented. Yesterday, @francocookson & @neiljmawson turned up for a slice of the action and at one point, 3 climbers (including @ste_mcclure ) were queuing for an E11! "

Excellent, I always feel slightly sorry for routes that people have put a lot into that immediately fall into obscurity.

[Wellsy]

I'm actually posting from below the top crux right now, doing it in my trainers, reckon it's about E6 6b.

[turnipturned]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUIBjWfIp8U/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Interesting topic to discuss 

[Danny]

Hellfire. I see he was asking directly about the secret to success in a comment on one of Gresham's Lexicon posts. Seems to be a pretty clear claim of foul play.

[jwi]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUIBjWfIp8U/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Interesting topic to discuss 

I have heard these kind of comments before from old french climbers. Names have been mentioned etc.

Using banned substances seems unnecessarily complicated when it is so easy to do like most and just claim that you have done a route (or PB on a strength benchmark) without having actually done it.

I found this interview with Magnus Carlsen, the world chess champion, about cheating in chess to be fascinating (english cc)



Basically everything he says can be applied to using banned substances or false claims.

[Wellsy]

I assume most elite athletes are probably on PEDs tbh.

And I mean in rock climbing, where you don't even have to figure out how to pass a drug test? In comps you do, but not for going out and doing whatever? Yeah. Not that I remotely care if they are or think there's even anything really wrong with it tbh, not morally anyway.

[spidermonkey09]

I found this interview with Magnus Carlsen, the world chess champion, about cheating in chess to be fascinating (english cc)



Basically everything he says can be applied to using banned substances or false claims.

How would one cheat in chess when playing face to face?

I am confused which bits you think are relevant to climbing; his view that the game/sport depends on trust?

[remus]

How would one cheat in chess when playing face to face?

An example I read about was a competitor who stashed a phone in the toilets prior to a competition. They'd then take a toilet break mid-game (very normal at longer time controls) and use the phone to get in touch with someone who had a chess computer to hand and could tell them the best moves.

[remus]

And I mean in rock climbing, where you don't even have to figure out how to pass a drug test? In comps you do, but not for going out and doing whatever? Yeah. Not that I remotely care if they are or think there's even anything really wrong with it tbh, not morally anyway.

You're definitely toeing the morality line (or just stepping straight over it) if you're a professional athlete using your performances to get sponsorship deals.