[Bonjoy]

The difficulty (illustrated by points above) of what to do about post-ascent hold loss is one of the main reasons I prefer that developers try their utmost to remove looseness prior to the FA and pre-emptively glue whatever remains which looks likely to become loose in time.

That said if the above fails and a 40m classic is rendered unclimbable* by a hold loss it seems insane to me to leave it forevermore unclimbable 'on principle'. In part because I don't understand what principle it fulfils. If you accept that lime needs any cleaning/gluing pre-ascent then surely you have already violated the principle. And if you accept this makes sense on a 40m classic then you have to ask why it would not apply on a climb of lesser stature, or at what point it ceases to apply.

To my mind the most logically consistent first guiding principle is to maintain climbs in an enjoyable/usable condition. Obviously other principles moderate how far this is taken, but to me it is the best course of action where there isn't a compelling reason to do otherwise.

* sometimes (not always) it really is clear cut that something is totally unclimbable

[teestub]

Bonjoy what’s your view on the work that went in with Mecca? That seemed to be a step above ‘hold replacement’ with the volume requiring sticking back on, and I remember that it was climbable without the block, albeit harder.

[SA Chris]

with the volume requiring sticking back on

Sticking artificial holds is in some cases just about acceptable, but sticking a volume on is taking the piss

[Bonjoy]

Bonjoy what’s your view on the work that went in with Mecca? That seemed to be a step above ‘hold replacement’ with the volume requiring sticking back on, and I remember that it was climbable without the block, albeit harder.

I think at the time I argued against it on UKB, partly because it seemed a bit OTT, but possibly also because it was the route I was most sick of in the Peak by then. On reflection I think Kris did a good restoration job and the outcome is satisfactory. It's hard to know if the climb as it would have been (and all the extensions) would have been a net gain for Peak climbing, as only Steve had done the holdless version and he seems more ming tolerant than most. It was definitely on the far end of the hold repair spectrum, but perhaps the history and nature of the route justified it.

[northern yob]

[quote

* sometimes (not always) it really is clear cut that something is totally unclimbable
[/quote]

Agreed, but sometimes not always people get it wrong, in my tiny mind the logical way to remove that is to have no grey area that’s open to interpretation. As I said above I know this doesn’t make sense, but glueing things back on just feels wrong to me. I can completely relate to what your saying. I think in general we do pretty well ,and the status quo works most of the time, I just can’t shake the slightly wrong feeling.

[nik at work]

Can’t claim to have any especially strong feeling on this one, certainly not in the middle grey area, beyond letting those close to the coal face sort it out (potential suitors, people who like fixing holds, first ascentionists(?)).
However in this particular case I am slightly curious about what was stuck in place. The hold came off several years ago and was subsequently stolen. I’m sure Adam said that the replacement hold was stuck on last year. Just wondering who stuck it on? And how did they know what to stick on? To be clear this is curiosity not suggesting some has just slapped a whopper jug on the wall (unless someone has stuck a whopper jug on the wall??).

[teestub]

Nik on this topic your sterling work at Mytholm is still going strong!

[kc]

Bonjoy what’s your view on the work that went in with Mecca? That seemed to be a step above ‘hold replacement’ with the volume requiring sticking back on, and I remember that it was climbable without the block, albeit harder.

When Steve prised the Mecca block to the ground and subsequently repeated the route with ease, he I suspect and many others would have agreed that his opinion of the difficulty was somewhat jaded. He was regular running laps up Mecca at the time so even doing 10 pull ups with a rucksack full of bricks on the starting holds prior wasn't going to make it feel a lot harder.
It wasn't just put back on without consultation though. I had already done the route 5 Years previously so had no vested interest but I remember belaying Stu L on the new boulder problem start. He certainly didn't mind the idea of it being harder and udging the grade. He proceeded to dispatch the moves without much difficulty but thought it was a bit shit and ming ruining the flow.
My motivation was more technical. I sat back quietly for a few weeks listening to the debates and methods. Loads of people came up with ridiculous ideas and the old guard should be bought together to solve the issue but I knew exactly how to proceed so said nothing.
With the help of Keith we got it back on stronger than ever and with the advent of the Knee pad it had dropped a grade and become a trade route.

[Fiend]

So what's ruined Mecca more, gluing the starting blocks back on, or using kneepads?? 

[nik at work]

Nik on this topic your sterling work at Mytholm is still going strong!

Glad to hear it 

[Adam Lincoln]

Can’t claim to have any especially strong feeling on this one, certainly not in the middle grey area, beyond letting those close to the coal face sort it out (potential suitors, people who like fixing holds, first ascentionists(?)).
However in this particular case I am slightly curious about what was stuck in place. The hold came off several years ago and was subsequently stolen. I’m sure Adam said that the replacement hold was stuck on last year. Just wondering who stuck it on? And how did they know what to stick on? To be clear this is curiosity not suggesting some has just slapped a whopper jug on the wall (unless someone has stuck a whopper jug on the wall??).

By talking in depth with Ian. Will that do?

[Rob F]

I'm staying well out of this one.

A few years ago I pulled an undercut about the size of a lemon off the top traverse on Statement.

I wouldn't like to think that my failure to glue the hold back on at that time would contribute in any way to future aspirants having a prolonged seige.



Will put the hold on eBay if anyone thinks this necessary???

[shark]

The difficulty (illustrated by points above) of what to do about post-ascent hold loss is one of the main reasons I prefer that developers try their utmost to remove looseness prior to the FA and pre-emptively glue whatever remains which looks likely to become loose in time.

Nice illustration of somebody doing this at 5.50

[Fiend]

Well tested at 7:20 as well!

[edshakey]

9:41, he shows off the latest in high performance technology for harnesses. Surprised none of the Olympic athletes chose one of these for the lead routes.

[SA Chris]

Such a nice guy, and useful to have nearby if you have an accident and end up damaging yourself, as a mate of mine can testify to.

[mrjonathanr]

Lovely film. 8a+ and full time anaesthetist. Impressive!

[SA Chris]

Randomly bumped into him at the local climbing wall a few years back when he was doing locum work at the local hospital.

I said hi.