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Wrights Rock access (Read 24493 times)

mrjonathanr

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#175 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 02:07:16 pm
Andi posted this on the other channel

"I'd like to add that, having spoken to the landowner, one of the things that really seemed to have irked him is when he's approached "climbers" who have been breaking the agreed access, they haven't left but instead tried to enter philosophical debates with him about land ownership and have said they'll happily climb until the police come etc... It doesn't take many of these encounters to really knacker a relationship."


I suspect a basic appreciation of where the power really lies in this scenario would have helped curb a tendency to be argumentative.

Tony S

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#176 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 02:18:56 pm
[Removed this - thought better of it]

Johnny Brown

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#177 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 02:27:00 pm
Quote
Arguing back when asked to leave somewhere that you don't technically have a right to be does seem kind of, I don't know, idiotic though doesn't it?

Like I said, I wasn't there, so I wouldn't presume. In other contexts, is the correct action when faced with a moral wrong to back down immediately?

As above, the idea that the best way to make access agreements is for the BMC to have a civilised sit down with the landowner and then make the climbers disappear is at best unrealistic (as here) and at worst ultimately counter-productive (as at Eagle Tor). Add to that the fact that the landowner has proceeded with an access 'agreement' that surely goes against the better judgement of the BMC access reps (as I said, such arbitrary restrictions don't work elsewhere either but were presumably all that was on offer). So at some point they need to meet the reality that their plan is unworkable (and understand that the BMC only represent climbers and cannot hope to control them). Climbers getting philosophical is part of that, there will be climbers who have been happily visiting responsibly for fifty years, I think they have every right to question it in person. It's not easy for either party to remain civil but if he wants to throw people off his land I think he should experience it personally rather than by remote control.

Quote
given the proximity of this patch of land to the owners house I bet there would be mechanisms for an exemption etc.

There is a process, like planning. They can object. Given the context (see map above for surrounding woodland, plus history, detail of SSSI dedication etc) I think it unlikely they would succeed. Hence why the Vixen tor owners were desperately trying to fertilize it out of moorland status. The fields probably wouldn't be included, fair enough. But bear in mind this is 2001-era CRoW process, there is a good chance that 2025 legislation would be much broader and we'll be given blanket access to fields and woodland anyway.

spidermonkey09

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#178 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 02:34:55 pm
Interesting post. Just on a point of order, what was counter productive about Eagle Tor from the landowners perspective? Its basically not climbed on now.

Johnny Brown

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#179 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 02:40:23 pm
Well exactly, nothing. All our negotations and good behaviour and word spreading simply proved that if she asked us to go away, we would. Forever. Having had subsequent conversations with her she's not actually against responsible low-key access but is not likely to do so publically because what's in it for her? If we had been more militant and less controllable it could not have been worse and might well have been better. So the only hope is Keir comes good...

Johnny Brown

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#180 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 03:04:31 pm
Quote
Shadow Environment Minister Alex Sobel MP told the Commons:
 
"We will introduce a Right to Roam Act, a new law allowing national parks to adopt the right to wild camp, as well as expanding public access to woodlands and waterways... Like in Scotland, Labour’s approach will be that our right to roam will offer access to high-quality green and blue spaces for the rest of Britain. We will replace the default of exclusion with a default of access"

Bit vague but very promising. On the evidence of these threads the attitude that we have a default of access may take a while to catch up mind. As an aside I bought a kayak a few years back and the state of access to waterways is absolutely shocking, makes climbing and the BMC look very successful.

abarro81

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#181 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 03:10:06 pm
What do you think is the best approach? I guess there's a big challenge in predicting what will get someone on side and how that individual is likely to respond when people don't know them... I know I'd respond better to a civilized sit down and if people just kept doing whatever they wanted I'd probably feel very much like fucking them over just for the sake of it! But I can see why that might not be true for all...

Johnny Brown

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#182 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 03:26:29 pm
Its difficult, and highly dependent on individual personalities. We don't have a stick really, so yes the sit down, share a carrot is about all we have. With small areas like this the owners are often not well informed and really appreciate the chat with someone who understands what is happening, because often they don't.

Where there is a gap between prior assumptions and reality, time will pretty much always be required. Ultimately our strongest tool is the understanding that 'fucking them over' with a total ban won't work - people will still turn up, you'll have to turf them off, have aggro both ways, and trespass still won't be a crime and the police won't be interested etc... plus with a venue like this there is even the possibility of widespread bad press of 'selfish landowner removes access to beauty spot after 70 years'. At some point the penny might drop (faced with some very nice philosophical hippy perhaps) that they might be the baddie?

But as above I think we're in a very strong position that any restrictions in the short term will be moot in a couple of years anyway.

teestub

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#183 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 03:31:46 pm
On the evidence of these threads the attitude that we have a default of access may take a while to catch up mind.

I don't see this from the thread at all, everyone commenting, whether in Camp Dave or not has said access laws need changing, and once they have been I'm sure everyone will be very happy exercising those rights. Most of the commentary has been around the futility of rallying against the current situation, where the only recourse is hoping land owners are nice and might act in line with what climbers see as their moral prerogative to touch rocks.

 I guess an interesting counterexample to this situation is Snowden, which is on access land, but this hasn't stopped the owners getting pissed off with climbers and doing something about it.

Will Hunt

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#184 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 04:25:16 pm
One problem with militancy which you don't mention, JB, is that a crag like this could easily go the same way as that popular roof near Brimham (not that I think militancy was the problem there but the same outcome is possible).

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#185 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 05:09:25 pm
Agreed, by nature I'd happily go climbing on all of the banned areas while chanting eat the rich and flinging sharpened rocks at any landowners who protested. That however would clearly be very stupid so the viable alternative is to try and spread awareness on both sides.

I doth my cap to the ukc bods for sorting things quite quickly to raise awareness of the situation on their side, more can always be done however. I'd like to see more climbing brands ( local distributors would probably have to lead the charge here ) as I reckon it's in their interest to keep climbing as accessible as possible.

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#186 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 06:33:23 pm
Well exactly, nothing. All our negotations and good behaviour and word spreading simply proved that if she asked us to go away, we would. Forever. Having had subsequent conversations with her she's not actually against responsible low-key access but is not likely to do so publically because what's in it for her? If we had been more militant and less controllable it could not have been worse and might well have been better. So the only hope is Keir comes good...

I've known a few people quietly boulder there after the ban and even a Scandinavian pair who knocked on the door and got permission.

It's weird sometimes how landowners with the most intransigent reputations will bend on a single occasion. We climbed at ERF rocks once by mistake (mistook it for a neighbouring crag)... the owner soon arrived with a long angry tirade about the BMC, but soon after Lynn made him laugh.... and he said we could stay.

It's a sadness for us that Wright's is banned. We reassessed all the obscure areas for the Roaches reprint but a few places, like Wright's, were a real treat between all the stealth and bush wacking.

I really hope you are right about the new CRoW outcome for Wright's but I'm more pessimistic.

webbo

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#187 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 07:06:27 pm
Those believing that it will be fine once Labour get in, clearly have forgotten their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Plus the right to roam might be in the manifesto but given the shit they will have to sort out first it might not be a priority.

teestub

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#188 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 23, 2023, 08:07:16 pm
man it was only £1.4mill, we could have just thrown a few quid in each, or the BMC could have moved there from Manchester! https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/3025599/doc_0_0.pdf

Durbs

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#189 Re: Wrights Rock access
May 24, 2023, 11:11:14 am
man it was only £1.4mill, we could have just thrown a few quid in each, or the BMC could have moved there from Manchester! https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/3025599/doc_0_0.pdf


Fuck me - that's so cheap compared to Surrey (where I live). A relatively affluent Londoner could easily afford that, run it as a bunkhouse, problem solved.

JimC

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#190 Re: Wrights Rock access
June 04, 2023, 07:48:57 pm
Hi guys.

We are thinking about a better <trial> way of managing the access. Don't fret, we are not evil. 90% of climbers are a pleasure to have here. It may invove emailing us beforehand to pre-book with a photo ID of some sort. That way there is mutual accountability for free access. Twice I have shot guns towards at the rock (pest control - aka grey squirrels) and after found climbers present (who sneaked in after close time).

Pre-booking manages the numbers too - we don't want any more than six as we are part of a SSSI and trying to manage the footfall and also, every whoop, laughing, shouting or chant of "fucking come on" we hear as the rock reflects (like a great megaphone) the sound to my family enjoying the quiet outside garden in summer.

Be in touch via BMC.

We do not have any issues this way with fisherman on the River Churnet - albeit they pay and know their personal access is at risk.


Jim @ Wood Farm





« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 08:06:09 pm by JimC »

 

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