[DAVETHOMAS90]

This is of course, massive:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/57725179

  

At 36 too. Amazing.

[sxrxg]

Don't think his age is the most amazing thing... Epstein Barr virus, depression, considered retirement as had no team at the end of last year, bought a place on the quickstep team by bringing a sponsor. Not expected to ever ride the tour again, first wins in a couple of years at second string tour of turkey race. Only got a chance this year due to team mates injury and proving himself at the tour of Belgium just before the tour.

I hope he wins in green in Paris and announces his retirement going out on his own terms. Truly the best sprinter ever.

[Nibile]

That was clickbait Dave!!!
 

[Johnny Brown]

Amazing, yeah, it's been a great watch so far and the final week looks like classic.

[webbo]

Don't think his age is the most amazing thing... Epstein Barr virus, depression, considered retirement as had no team at the end of last year, bought a place on the quickstep team by bringing a sponsor. Not expected to ever ride the tour again, first wins in a couple of years at second string tour of turkey race. Only got a chance this year due to team mates injury and proving himself at the tour of Belgium just before the tour.

I hope he wins in green in Paris and announces his retirement going out on his own terms. Truly the best sprinter ever.

The most amazing thing as Cav himself has said is how the team have complete faith in him to deliver. This is a team stacked with winners including the world champion who are prepared to ride their guts out to get him to the last 150 metres. Chris Boardman reckoned that on stage three after Morkov pulled off Cav had only to do 15 pedal revs to cross the line.
He did say they were the 15 most important pedal revs on the stage however.

[IanP]

Amazing, yeah, it's been a great watch so far and the final week looks like classic.

Incredible stuff, the highlight of a very entertaining tour despite the lack of drama in the GC. 

If you'd written the script for Cavendish's comeback it would have been thrown out as too far-fetched, As said above, best sprinter ever - the next best for 'mass finish' TDF stage wins is 22!

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Epstein Barr virus, depression, considered retirement as had no team at the end of last year, bought a place on the quickstep team by bringing a sponsor. Not expected to ever ride the tour again..

I hope he wins in green in Paris and announces his retirement going out on his own terms. Truly the best sprinter ever.

The most amazing thing as Cav himself has said is how the team have complete faith in him to deliver.

Yes, absolutely. You can only imagine how that team are feeling now.

A little more drama in this one, especially Cav's reaction. Fantastic.



I hope the link still works.
https://youtube.com/c/LeTourDeFrance

[teestub]

The most amazing thing as Cav himself has said is how the team have complete faith in him to deliver. This is a team stacked with winners including the world champion who are prepared to ride their guts out to get him to the last 150 metres. Chris Boardman reckoned that on stage three after Morkov pulled off Cav had only to do 15 pedal revs to cross the line.
He did say they were the 15 most important pedal revs on the stage however.

It looked like Mørkøv could have easily taken the win yesterday, can’t imagine how well that would have gone down 😂

[Paul B]

Any chance this thread can be renamed? It appearing on a sprint finish day is a bit of a spoiler!

On topic, I love how honest his interviews are.

[sxrxg]

The most amazing thing as Cav himself has said is how the team have complete faith in him to deliver. This is a team stacked with winners including the world champion who are prepared to ride their guts out to get him to the last 150 metres. Chris Boardman reckoned that on stage three after Morkov pulled off Cav had only to do 15 pedal revs to cross the line.
He did say they were the 15 most important pedal revs on the stage however.

It looked like Mørkøv could have easily taken the win yesterday, can’t imagine how well that would have gone down 😂

Morkov is so good, just look at the sprinters that have been serial winners when on a team with him... Viviani, Bennett, Kristoff. Non have really done much else without him. I don't think it diminishes Cav's achievement this tour though. He still has to be fast and he has also won by coming off Morkov's wheel and using his racing experience to pick the right wheels.

[webbo]

Since 2008 when Cav won his first tour stage to today. French riders have won 40 stages Germany 36 Cav 34 then the next nation is about 18.
He needs to keep going till at least he has more than Germany.

[Anti]

Huge cycling fan, ex 2nd cat chopper and all round lover of bikes. Generally one to turn a blind eye but professional sports is in a suspicious place at the moment. Records are being broken in athletics that have stood since before epo testing was possible. Cyclists are are putting out power (well, if they'd release their data...) the likes of which are surprising to even strongest guys, and sprinters you've seen drop off form and disappear from the sport to a degree you'd almost call them past it suddenly beat everyone in the peleton.

If (and I hope it is but not naive) all legit then we're witnessing a significant jump forward in human performance.
All interestingly after a period of reduced wada testing due to covid travel restrictions...

[moose]

In athletics there's at least the (partial) explanation of the new generation shoes -  2-6% benefits in oxygen costs etc for running... with cycling, not so....

[Anti]

In athletics there's at least the (partial) explanation of the new generation shoes -  2-6% benefits in oxygen costs etc for running... with cycling, not so....

We don't know how good the spikes are at the moment, 2-4% was about the range for the road shoes. I don't think that would account for all of the leaps we're seeing though... Plus they're happening in some of throwing events too. Ah well.

[moose]

In athletics there's at least the (partial) explanation of the new generation shoes -  2-6% benefits in oxygen costs etc for running... with cycling, not so....

We don't know how good the spikes are at the moment, 2-4% was about the range for the road shoes. I don't think that would account for all of the leaps we're seeing though... Plus they're happening in some of throwing events too. Ah well.

True...some cycling tweeters and podcasters I follow have been alluding to the "peloton of two speeds" that they saw in the EPO era - before it was tested for.

[Stabbsy]

Huge cycling fan, ex 2nd cat chopper and all round lover of bikes. Generally one to turn a blind eye but professional sports is in a suspicious place at the moment. Records are being broken in athletics that have stood since before epo testing was possible. Cyclists are are putting out power (well, if they'd release their data...) the likes of which are surprising to even strongest guys, and sprinters you've seen drop off form and disappear from the sport to a degree you'd almost call them past it suddenly beat everyone in the peleton.

If (and I hope it is but not naive) all legit then we're witnessing a significant jump forward in human performance.
All interestingly after a period of reduced wada testing due to covid travel restrictions...

Pretty much word for word as discussed in the latest Science of Sport podcast. Well worth a listen.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-real-science-of-sport-podcast/id1461719225?i=1000528340757

Not only Pogacar and others at the TdF, but also recent women’s 10k records really make me suspicious. Given the 10k record was held by a Chinese runner well known to be drug assisted, then broken by an Ethiopian, Ayana, after no-one could get near it for 20 years. Then it gets smashed twice in a few days. Sadly I don’t think the spikes explain it on their own.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

This was intended (hoped) to be a thread celebrating Cav's outstanding efforts 


I know there are pitfalls of believing in what you see. Perhaps it's naive to be that way, or just living in hope, but for now, I'm enjoying his glory.
Can we have another thread on outliers please?

[Will Hunt]

I'm not convinced by Pogacar at all. The sports scientist can bang on about special mitochondria all he likes but I don't think it explains 5 minutes up on almost everyone at the first rest day.

Cav is different I think since he isn't racing against the cream of road sprinting. If Ewan was there things might be very different - but you can only race against what turns up.

[IanP]

Can we have another thread on outliers please?

 

[fiveknuckle21]

Strongly agree with Will. I’ve followed the season pretty closely this year, more so than usual. I think Cavendish has hit his peak perfectly. On top of that he’ got Morkov, who could arguably have won 3 out of 4 of the stages he has, leading him to the line amongst the best lead out train by far. Ewan, Sagan, Mellier, Bouhani all out. Philipsens lead out train is decimated and Van Aert can’t make up his mind what he wants to do this tour.

I believe in MVDPs performances as I do for Van Aert. They come from an aspect of the sport where wattage is king and I imagine sitting in the peloton all day is a piece of cake, ready to turn it up when they need to.

As for Pogacar. Liege Bastogne Leige to fronting the tour seems unbelievable but where is his competition this year. It was always going to be Pogacar vs Roglic. Ineos are a dud, Movistar almost redundant. Astanas leader rode the Giro…

I think on both counts the stars have aligned for both of them.

But still to take a full 5 minutes out of Carapraz. Hmmm

[webbo]

Although I have had my doubts about Pogacar, I am not convinced on how well Carapraz is riding, he can’t get rid of Uran for a start and Uran to me has never looked like he was going to win a grand tour.

[teestub]

The way this Tour has turned out, Pog could have easily still won without the exceptional early performances that have raised the eyebrows. I think that he’s racing against a much depleted field makes him stick out even more.

Cav’s performances aren’t raising any eyebrows for me really, as had been said, there’s not really any pure sprinters with a similar team behind them to compete against him.

[Stabbsy]

Can you have any serious conversation about success in cycling without a nod to doping?

Like it or not, Cav is an outlier - he’s won bunch sprint stages at the TdF over a 13 year period. Look at some of his peers - Greipel, Kittel, Sagan - all won their stages over half that timeframe. Given what’s required to win a bunch sprint (massive power output over a very short period, something suited to younger riders), it makes sense to ask the question how/why is Cav different - particularly given cycling’s murky past.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a massive Cavendish fanboy and have been since the first stage win in 2008. I was in Webbo’s camp of “bit of dust in my eye” when he won his first stage this year. However, I don’t want to sit there with my fingers in my ears and not recognise that there’s a risk that it’s all too good to be true.

There is a plausible story as to why he disappeared from the front of the peloton and then reappeared. There’s also Will’s point about who he’s been up against - certainly for his later wins in this Tour, although the first 2 were against strong opposition with the exception of Ewan as Demare, Bouhanni and Merlier didn’t pull out until later. I hope that is the whole story and there’s nothing else.

[Plattsy]

Maybe clean racing has started to out perform the Spanish beef beasts of the past.
Maybe personalised pillows and coloured coded drinks bottles are the marginal gains that make a difference and the likes of Rasmussen asking for only one coat of paint on his bike was the wrong sort of marginal gain...

Or maybe they've all been on it all the time.

Still it's been great to see Cav's return to winning and fingers crossed for one more.

[Offwidth]

 

Although I have had my doubts about Pogacar, I am not convinced on how well Carapraz is riding, he can’t get rid of Uran for a start and Uran to me has never looked like he was going to win a grand tour.

I think with a bit of luck Uran could easily have won a grand tour as he was close a few times. Three second places on his record and all it took was a bit of bad luck for a leader or a doping disqualification and he would have won one. Almost with the very best as a climber, excellent on multi-stage time trials and very attentive and canny.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/rigoberto-uran

On the subject of the doping accusations, for Pogacar they talked to an exercise specialist on one of the context setting sections who pointed out he has always had elite stats  from when he was first discovered and his performance stats in this tour are pretty normal for him, but he is lucky the opposition this year are below par on their detailed stats. On Cav, the sprint opposition is a lot weaker than normal this year and he has by far the best sprint support team. He is only in the race as Bennett was pulled out just before the start.

Cycling to me will take a long time to recover from the awful Armstrong era but let's not forget the doctors looking after the cheating cycling stars also had big name footballers and tennis stars on their client list and mysteriously those stones never got turned. I think anything in sport with big money has drug cheating involved to some extent.