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Triathlon advice/wisdom (Read 6855 times)

Falling Down

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#25 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 04:09:16 pm
Nik - If it's not until September and you can swim regularly, you might have plenty of time to learn to crawl comfortably.  We're a similar age so I'm guessing we we taught badly at school and your crawl is probably a sprint style for 25m badges. Whenever I would try and swim crawl as an adult, it'd feel horrible and panicky as if I was drowning.  The pool style breathe under your armpit thing is useless for swimming in open water and the energy expended in pulling and kicking is enormous. 

After watching some older open water swimmers back in the 90's I decided to learn what they were doing and haven't looked back. Terry Laughlin's book 'Total Immersion' was enough for me and I bet there are better books around now.  Being able to crawl languidly without getting out of breath and in choppy water is brilliant.

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#26 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 04:22:35 pm
Whenever I would try and swim crawl as an adult, it'd feel horrible and panicky as if I was drowning.

This is exactly how I feel

I think I will put in the effort to try and learn an effective crawl style. My breaststroke is an easy fall back option if needed so, as you point out, I certainly have the time to try and crack it. A 5 minute walk to an outdoor pool and a few wild swim spots within a short drive means I don’t have any good excuses really. Thanks for the encouragement/push 😁

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#27 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 05:26:58 pm
Being able to crawl languidly without getting out of breath and in choppy water is brilliant.

That sounds excellent

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#28 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 06:44:05 pm
Whenever I would try and swim crawl as an adult, it'd feel horrible and panicky as if I was drowning.

This is exactly how I feel

I think I will put in the effort to try and learn an effective crawl style. My breaststroke is an easy fall back option if needed so, as you point out, I certainly have the time to try and crack it. A 5 minute walk to an outdoor pool and a few wild swim spots within a short drive means I don’t have any good excuses really. Thanks for the encouragement/push 😁

With the caveat that learning to swim crawl well and sorting out the breathing to be able to do long distance in open water, is your best option; there is a reason we don’t use crawl as the preferred stroke for distance in open sea.
I just thought I’d put that out there, for those that really don’t like the crawl or seriously struggle with the breathing (which can be very difficult in rougher sea states).

It can be difficult to perfect a totally new stroke, though. I was already a county class swimmer before joining up and I struggled to shift to the stroke at first, especially as I went straight into the Navy squad.

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#29 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 08:02:11 pm
When I started to do triathlons I couldn’t really swim front crawl and to this day I am still pretty crap. However I did persevere at it and was able to swim 2.4 miles in open water doing it, I never got very fast at it but in open water wearing a wetsuit it was a lot less fatiguing than swimming breast stroke. I can breathe on either side as well as breathing on alternate sides but I found it easier just to stick to side that was natural. Generally if the water is that rough that it will stop you breathing on any side the swim will get cancelled.
I did get a bit of coaching in regard to my stroke but even then 30 years ago everyone commented on how stiff my shoulders were. Climbing is not best preparation for swimming.
What I would do if I was 30 again and starting out I would do a lot more weight training. As if you can’t get supple get strong.

Paul B

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#30 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 10:24:01 pm
I’ve only drive up Hardknott not ridden it but I suspect it’s a fair step up from the struggle (especially if you’re heading up it at the end of a ride...)

Indeed. A guy driving a classic mini stopped wound his window down, looked concerned and wished me the best of luck (wholeheartedly). I'd kidded myself that doing a similar length ride around Lancashire in May having done the best to match the gradients at various points in the ride I'd be fine. I'd never been up it on a bike or in a car (perhaps I had done the latter when <10yrs old).

Quote
A what?

See Dobbin mid redpoint; when a power scream just isn't possible. The noise a small wounded animal might make when in distress etc.

Oldmanmatt

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#31 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 10:39:32 pm

Quote
A what?

See Dobbin mid redpoint; when a power scream just isn't possible. The noise a small wounded animal might make when in distress etc.


Ahhh... right.

Yeah, have to do that when I’m half out of bed, most mornings, these days.

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#32 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 09, 2021, 10:30:58 am
Well a brief resurrection of this thread. The tri is this weekend, hopefully I’ll survive it and will post a brief match report next week but just in case this is a quick thanks for all the various hints and tips.
I’ve just been informed that the swim is now no longer 5s interval starts but rather 4 mass groups, this does not fill me with joy…

Anyway swim training has been woefully inadequate, but I can now manage to crawl reasonably effectively in a “languid” style, not at any great speed mind. Ultimately I think I’ll end up doing a combo of crawl and breast. But thanks for all the encouragement to try and master crawl, even if my swimming is still relatively weak crawl no longer fills me with drown-dread.

I’m also lacking in bike miles and certainly not enough long rides, but feel happier with my baseline bike ability compared to swimming so hoping this will see me through.

Running I’ve actually managed to do a reasonable amount, and also done brick sessions which have gone from “treacle leg stumbling” at the start of the run through to… well still “treacle leg running” but at least now I’m used to it…

So, I imagine like most people, I’m not as prepared as I’d like to be but probably prepared enough…

Thanks again for the tips, see you Monday…

SA Chris

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#33 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 09, 2021, 11:03:33 am
You done some practice changeovers? worth doing once or twice just so you know a general order of doing things and have things laid out and ready.

Also you sorted for nutrition? Never try something new on race day.

These will count more than any more training at this stage.

You'll be reet.

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#34 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 09, 2021, 02:04:20 pm
Just go out and have some fun, don’t drown, enjoy the ‘running with someone else’s legs’ feeling. First go? Guaranteed PB.

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#35 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 10, 2021, 09:15:54 am
Nutrition is a great shout Chris. It’s something I’ve had sorted for a while due to a long history of delicate internals, but appreciate the reminder. The “don’t try anything new on race day” tip is probably one of the best IMHO, and probably/possibly oft ignored??

I like the sound of the guaranteed PB 😁

SA Chris

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#36 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 10, 2021, 09:39:02 am
If you use caffeinated gels, save them 'til the end of the run section, make sure you know what your "window" is. I normally avoid until within 5km of finish line..

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#37 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 10, 2021, 12:58:23 pm
I would think that it’s fairly pointless taking on any food/gels with 5K to go. You will be finished before it takes effect. Unless you’ve completely blown and are walking or crawling.

SA Chris

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#38 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 10, 2021, 01:05:09 pm
Accept it may be purely psychological, but sure a caffeine hit helps me with a fast finish

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#39 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 13, 2021, 08:21:58 am
I survived!!

Overall time of 4:45

71st in my class and 190 overall out of 700. Pretty pleased with that overall as a first effort.

A few thoughts:
Swim
The swim was carnage!! I suspect the course was shorter than 1500m given the times people posted. Mass starts are chaos, but it never felt unsafe or unpleasant. Ended up quite enjoying it, rather than just wanting to get it out of the way. Hot weather last week meant the water temp was actually really pleasant. Would definitely have benefitted from more swim training, did enough to get round but imagine a bit more technique/training would fairly quickly see speed improve.

Bike
This is not a hilly bike route. It has one reasonable length fairly gradual climb and the struggle. Otherwise it’s a flat/rolling up and down course. On both hills I went past loads of people. But I am so shit on the flat, that I also got passed a few times. Definitely made up a lot of places on the bike. The hills felt fine, but not only do I have no speed on the flat I also find it exhausting. Got off the bike more beasted than I expected. Definitely could have done with more riding training, longer, pacy rides needed.

The run
Everybody walks up it seems. I power walked up passing quite a few people, and then running down passed lots of hesitant runners on the unstable ground. Managed to go under 2 hours (and was 10 minutes faster than the next person in my group of friends) so was quite happy with that. But a shame the bike beasted me quite so much, I think 1:45 and more running up are achievable with just a bit more endurance. The run down is brutal. I really enjoy running down hill, but 4.5 of relentless hard unstable rocky ground is punishing stuff. Apparently I looked pretty fresh when I crossed the finish line (didn’t feel it though…)

TL/DR
Was bloody brilliant, planning to be back next year with some actual proper training under my belt.

Anyway thanks again for the various tips and comments. I would 100% recommend the tri to anyone who fancies it, a brilliant brilliant event, and the support was so so so good. Coming up the struggle felt like being in the Tour de France, and people had walked up Helvellyn just to cheer everyone on. Amazing.

SA Chris

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#40 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 13, 2021, 09:12:14 am
Good Work Nik.

Might as well get another one in while you are on a roll

https://durtyevents.com/our-events/craggy-island-triathlon/ (worth it for the name alone)

Mates have done this and loved it.

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#41 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 13, 2021, 09:28:33 am
That does look ace!!
Probably can’t squeeze it in this year but will definitely stick it on the list.

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#42 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 13, 2021, 10:22:21 am
Nice one Nik! Sounds brutal to me.

Bike
This is not a hilly bike route. It has one reasonable length fairly gradual climb and the struggle. Otherwise it’s a flat/rolling up and down course. On both hills I went past loads of people. But I am so shit on the flat, that I also got passed a few times. Definitely made up a lot of places on the bike. The hills felt fine, but not only do I have no speed on the flat I also find it exhausting. Got off the bike more beasted than I expected. Definitely could have done with more riding training, longer, pacy rides needed.

I don't know what your winter plans are but if it's something you're inclined to do I've found the turbo to produce improvements year on year (without a ridiculous time input).

How's your riding position (forearms nice and parallel to the floor etc.)?

I think generally this happens to lighter people though, I know Peewee has made this observation in his club rides where on the hills he disappears off (W/kg) but struggles to hold the wheel of bigger guys (absolute W) on the flat.

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#43 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 14, 2021, 08:53:24 am
Got to be honest and say the idea of turbo sessions leaves me completely cold.

As for my riding position I imagine I’m probably sat up in a completely non aero position (and wearing an enormous sail of a MTB helmet), no TT bars or such like. There is loads of room for technical improvement I’m sure. I guess I’m always going to be relatively slow on the flat/gently rolling ground given the limits of my absolute power (despite reasonable power to weight) but should still be able to make gains. I’m relatively new to road biking (less than 18 months) and riding in the Peak it’s mostly hills, and I guess pretty much all of my rides are “social” so sat up chatting on the flat and only putting a bit of effort in on the hills. Actually doing some proper training rides and getting position etc will help (for next year…).


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#44 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 14, 2021, 09:58:31 am
If you want a serious look at it, a pro bike fit might be worthwhile. I got one done cheaply as the guy had to do some as part of qualification. My setup (done by bloke in Evans when i bought bike) was pretty much spot on, just had my saddle slid backwards an inch, but it made a lot of difference to comfort and power.

Other easy option is the standard MAMIL approach and get a better bike! :)

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#45 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 14, 2021, 11:54:04 am
Quote
  The pool style breathe under your armpit thing is useless for swimming in open water and the energy expended in pulling and kicking is enormous.

After watching some older open water swimmers back in the 90's I decided to learn what they were doing and haven't looked back. Terry Laughli 's book 'Total Immersion' was enough for me and I bet there are better books around now.  Being able to crawl languidly without getting out of breath and in choppy water is brilliant.

Quite intrigued by this, though a quick youtube hasn't brought up any videos where people aren't breathing under their armpit. Are you talking about subtle changes to the stroke or something quite radical like this:   

Edit: found some Terry Laughlin videos, above seems to be an evolution of the style. Keen to try it!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 12:00:38 pm by Johnny Brown »

Falling Down

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#46 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 14, 2021, 12:24:27 pm
Yeah that's it, rotation.  It doesn't feel that radical once you get used to it.  I tend to breathe on each side on the third stroke, and if the water's choppy you can just stick to the leeward side to prevent swallowing water. You can really feel the stretch and glide that he talks about in the video.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 12:34:31 pm by Falling Down »

Johnny Brown

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#47 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 14, 2021, 12:55:10 pm
Great thanks! Definitely keen to try and get the hang of that.

Paul B

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#48 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 14, 2021, 01:57:15 pm
Got to be honest and say the idea of turbo sessions leaves me completely cold.

Nah, you'll soon warm up, it's surprising  ;D

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#49 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
September 14, 2021, 03:37:50 pm
Seems like a good opportunity to revisit one of my favourite youtube videos:




Triathlon is for people who don't already have a proper hobby.

 

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