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Triathlon advice/wisdom (Read 6850 times)

nik at work

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Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 02:25:32 pm
I’m hoping there’s some triathlists out here...

Somehow over the last year or so I have gone from refusing to entertain the idea of road biking or running, and barely swimming aside from the odd pootle in the sea to entering a triathlon... still not really sure what happened to be honest...

Anyway it’s the Hellvelyn Tri and as I’ve never done a Tri before I was wondering if anybody has any general Tri tips, and if anyone has done the Hellvelyn before if they have any specific pointers?

I’m not trying to break records or anything, just having a grand day out with a bunch of friends (there are about 30 entrants from the village).

SA Chris

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#1 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 02:36:03 pm
Don't do it. Entering the Triathlons rabbit hole is one of the most effective ways of draining time and money from your life!

You haven't chosen an easy one for your first have you? I'd say hire as much kit as you can for your first, and rehearse transitions, you can save a lot of time.

And if you haven't done much endurance events before, try out nutrition options to see what works for you best. Worth finding out what will be available at refuelling stops to see if it agrees with you; for London Marathon eg they gave out Lucozade sport which I hated at first (too sweet!), but forced myself to get used to it, but my partner just couldn't so carried her own Tailwind. Experiment and see how you get on with different gels, bars, sweets.


webbo

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#2 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 02:40:26 pm
I take it you have a wetsuit for the swim. Vaseline round the neck and any places it might rub. As it’s your  first and you not out to win it, it’s worth having the right clothing for each discipline I.e padded cycle shorts and cycle top for the ride.
Normally you would just wear a tri suit under your wetsuit and do the whole race in that but that’s probably something you will be looking to buy on the Monday after your race. ;)
You could put toggles on the laces of your running shoes to speed up getting them on, also if you plan to run without socks talcum powder in them helps.
When you get off the bike and start to run give yourself about half a mile to get up to pace rather than sprint out of the transition.
Make sure you eat and drink while on the bike.
That’s all I can think of for the moment.

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#3 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 03:23:48 pm
What distance are you doing?
Will you swim in a wetsuit?

I have done 1 tri that had a sea swim, and the best prep i did was:
1. Swimming (this was my slowest of the 3 exercises) - so I got a 121 coached swimming session, which I found useful, it taught me to breath and pace myself during front crawl.
2. I went open water swimming a lot, this allowed me to get use to swimming in a wet suit which is a lot different to trunks.
3. Build up to double exercise back to back sessions - for example I'd go swimming, then within 10mins I'd be on a bike or out running; or I'd cycle 40km then within 10mins I'd be running 10km. These felt like they built the endurance to keep going, and really helped on the day when you do the 3 exercises.
4. Also practice the transitions, getting out of wetsuit can take some time!
5. On the day - if its anything like the Pembroke coast tri, there will be professionals and serious triathletes there who for them it is there main sport, so don't be put off by the egos, their setup and speed!

I've only done 1 tri which whilst i enjoyed I have no plans for another as I can't face training for swimming again! I do a lot more open water swimming in my wet suit then before the tri, but I cant face the swim training to get back to a good speed. I'd rather go climbing (or cycle as my arms injured)!

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#4 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 04:05:43 pm
What distance are you doing?
Will you swim in a wetsuit?

I have done 1 tri that had a sea swim, and the best prep i did was:
1. Swimming (this was my slowest of the 3 exercises) - so I got a 121 coached swimming session, which I found useful, it taught me to breath and pace myself during front crawl.
2. I went open water swimming a lot, this allowed me to get use to swimming in a wet suit which is a lot different to trunks.
3. Build up to double exercise back to back sessions - for example I'd go swimming, then within 10mins I'd be on a bike or out running; or I'd cycle 40km then within 10mins I'd be running 10km. These felt like they built the endurance to keep going, and really helped on the day when you do the 3 exercises.
4. Also practice the transitions, getting out of wetsuit can take some time!
5. On the day - if its anything like the Pembroke coast tri, there will be professionals and serious triathletes there who for them it is there main sport, so don't be put off by the egos, their setup and speed!

I've only done 1 tri which whilst i enjoyed I have no plans for another as I can't face training for swimming again! I do a lot more open water swimming in my wet suit then before the tri, but I cant face the swim training to get back to a good speed. I'd rather go climbing (or cycle as my arms injured)!

Swim training, for me, has always been about  “time on task”. I guess getting a coach is a good way to short circuit the process, but plodding along, getting comfortable with your breathing and stroke, in a variety of conditions, just leafs to getting faster over time.
Caveat, I’m not a Triathlete.
Can’t imagine spending money on a bike that you can’t jump off cliffs on.
Or wearing lycra.

nik at work

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#5 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 04:08:21 pm
Thanks for the input folks, UKB delivers as ever.

I think I have all the equipment so shouldn’t need to hire anything. I’ve got a wetsuit, not an especially pimp swimming wetsuit or anything, but probably appropriate for my swimming level... Vaseline tip sounds good though.

Nutrition is a good call Chris, prob an area I am under prepared for.

The distances are:
Swim 1500m (2x750 lap open water in Ullswater lake)
Bike 39* miles with a reasonable amount of up, including “the struggle” which a seemingly a bit infamous.
Run 9 miles, up and down Hellvelyn, several sources have suggested that for most mortals it is a walk up a hill with a bit of scrambling followed by a run down.

I’m not going to get into Tri (he says...) so not looking to get a load of gear. I have use of a perfectly serviceable road bike (the girlfriends spare bike) and have a basic selection of cycling clothing and felling running shoes. My plan is to get changed in both transitions, swim in wetsuit, cycle in cycle shorts/leggings and run in shorts (got a big change towel to protect the innocent). Not bothered about losing a bit of time in transition for a bit of comfort.
Went up to the lakes last weekend and planned to ride the bike course, but timing issues meant only did the struggle. Drove the rest of the course though and it seems fine (A66 is fkn busy though, not looking forward to that section). Also walked up Hellvelyn via the run route (with obligatory nav error) and then ran/walked down. Quite SYKED for the run. The run/scramble up swirral edge looks tremendous fun!!
Did a bit of swimming in a lake as well which was cold but fine, I’m ok with open water all of my recent swimming prior to tri entry was in the sea. Have been hitting the (outdoor) pool in flotation shorts as an approximation of wetsuit.
Swim is my weakest event by a fair margin I’d say. Currently I am a non-crawl swimmer. My breaststroke is reasonable, I’d do the course distance in somewhere between 27-30 minutes breaststroke and feel pretty fresh getting out of the water. Not electric pace but probably as fast as some people’s crawl? If O tried to crawl I’d drown. What’s the etiquette on the swim, will I be hated if I breaststroke? I know it’s technically a less efficient stroke and more leg intensive but for me personally it is waaaaaay less effort than crawl and much faster.
As there’s a bit of a local crew doing it a series of informal relaxed tri training events have been organised, did the first one last week. Swam 1500, bike 20-odd hilly miles, ran 7 hilly miles. All with relaxed (5-10min) “transitions”. Was at a relaxed pace and felt steady. Think the plan is to ramp up the distance and speed a bit.

Sorry for waffling on, I think there were some questions in there. If anybody has answers or opinions I’m all ears.

SA Chris

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#6 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 04:40:06 pm
I was going to say, for crawl, learn to breathe on both sides - this was a really bad habit of mine until about 5 years ago. If wind and waves are coming from your breathing side, you will really struggle if you can't do both. If you are only doing beast stroke it's academic. Worth trying to mix up stokes a bit though. As long as you get in the water towards the back and don't get in anyone's way I'm sure no-one will be bothered what you do as long as you make cutoff.

Mix your running and cycling with hill reps if you are short on time. You will hate them at the time but be thankful on the day.

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#7 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 04:50:14 pm
I doubt anyone would be fussed if you swam breastroke. If you can crawl though it saves your legs a bit - you might want them later. If you get into crawl, there's an extra skill keeping a vaguely straight line without a black line on the bottom to follow. Worth practising jumping straight off the bike and going for a run, etc (rather than training everything separately). Be prepared for a bit of scrum if it's a mass start.

I've only done a handful and don't really get the geeky/buy your way out of trouble thing some tris suffer. I like the offroad ones I've done ...Helvellyn looks a corker :)

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#8 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 04:51:07 pm
If you are swimming breast stroke DON’T start near the front unless you want to get involved in triathlons hidden forth discipline boxing. People will just swim over you battering you as they do.
Given the current weather I would be cautious about getting cold after the swim so carrying a waterproof might be advisable.
I was got hypothermia in the Yorkshire Dales triathlon by getting very cold on the bike due not be able to a cycling top after the swim.Then thinking that the reason I was go slow was because I wasn’t trying hard enough, rather than I was running out of fuel.

webbo

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#9 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 04:53:26 pm
Just seen it September so the weather might have improved by then :lol:

nik at work

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#10 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 04:59:05 pm
I think the start is staggered this year (Covid), so we’ll be going off at 5 second intervals. Swim cut off is something like 30mins after the last person enters the water for their second lap. So should be pretty academic for most people.

I probably should put some effort into developing a notional ability at crawl I suppose. But I draw the line at hill reps 😂😂
(I’m happy that I can do the ride and run in combination reasonably comfortably as long as I don’t go out too hard)
Thanks for the suggestions everyone, should be a classic grand day out 😁

And yes, slightly better weather would be nice...

SA Chris

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#11 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 20, 2021, 06:32:09 pm
they call back to back training a brick, no idea why. Maybr because you need to be as thick as one to get involved in tris in the first place.

Duathlons are much easier btw, if you suck at swimming like me. Or SUP, bike, swims.

Paul B

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#12 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 05:03:23 pm
Bike 39* miles with a reasonable amount of up, including “the struggle” which a seemingly a bit infamous.
Run 9 miles, up and down Hellvelyn, several sources have suggested that for most mortals it is a walk up a hill with a bit of scrambling followed by a run down.

You can always make life easier/more certain for yourself with a decent cassette or choice of ratios.

Andy F

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#13 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 08:10:35 pm
Triathlon advice: Don't do it. That shit'll fuck you up big style.

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#14 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 09:52:23 pm
Maan, that shit fuck you up like Percocet

nik at work

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#15 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 10:02:12 pm
Andy/Chris I should imagine it probably will...

Paul I’m not overly worried about the ride to be honest. It suits me far more than a mostly flat course. Being small I lack the max power level that the big units can put down on the level, but am suited to the climbs.
Same story on the run really, I’m much more suited to steep technical ascents and descents than pure running ability on the flat.

I’m guessing that there may be a few “pure” triathletes who will get a bit of a shock at the climbing in the ride and scrambling in the run??

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#16 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 10:10:01 pm
Andy/Chris I should imagine it probably will...

Paul I’m not overly worried about the ride to be honest. It suits me far more than a mostly flat course. Being small I lack the max power level that the big units can put down on the level, but am suited to the climbs.
Same story on the run really, I’m much more suited to steep technical ascents and descents than pure running ability on the flat.


Fair enough, I'd just be thinking I'd want/need the ability to ensure I stay well below threshold with so much other activity on the day but what do I know, you won't catch me running anywhere (although there's plenty of time). Gels work even if they're not pleasant things.

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#17 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 10:16:11 pm

I’m guessing that there may be a few “pure” triathletes who will get a bit of a shock at the climbing in the ride and scrambling in the run??

You cling to that hope. Unless the swim is overly steep they will leave you in their wake :)

nik at work

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#18 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 10:32:46 pm
I’m well aware of how left in the wake I will be by anyone with a halfway reasonable swim... I do think some entrants might have a bit of a gibber at swirral edge, but they’ll be so far ahead of me I won’t actually get to see it...

Paul, completely agree with your thoughts on gearing/threshold and such like. What I mean is I rode the struggle last weekend with my current cassette/gearing and it felt comfortable and steady with the setup I have in place. Not suggesting I don’t need to have the right gearing, more that I already do if you see what I mean 😁

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#19 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 10:33:43 pm
https://www.facebook.com/GlenClovaXtremeDuathlon

If you decide the swimming bit sucks, this is a great event, stunning area and you can bag 2 munros on the course, then beer and party at Clova Hotel Afterwards.. I'm temped to do it again, depending what other events happen this Autumn.

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#20 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 21, 2021, 11:19:41 pm
That’s the weekend after Hellvelyn, I suspect I’ll still be broken. I’m also at a wedding on the Isle of Man that weekend, will bear it in mind for next year though 😁

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#21 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 10:55:38 am
My first Triathlon was the now defunct Yorkshire Dales. Which was 800metre swim in Semer water, 42 very hilly miles on the bike 1 in 4 climb to start from the lake, Buttertubs pass and Garsdale head and few others. 11 mile run up Pen y gent.
I thought I would piss it having done a lot of cycle racing and a bit of fell running. Half way through the bike leg I was going to sell my bike if and when I finished. I got off the bike in 10th place with my mate telling me just to reel everyone in on the run. This proved a bit difficult due to my legs feeling like they were up to my waist in treacle.
I managed to finish about 20th. The guy who won also had won the Three peaks cyclocross and fell race. Most of the top 20 were people who specialised in tough triathlons or were fell runners who could ride a bike.

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#22 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 02:38:21 pm

I thought I would piss it having done a lot of cycle racing and a bit of fell running. Half way through the bike leg I was going to sell my bike if and when I finished. I got off the bike in 10th place with my mate telling me just to reel everyone in on the run. This proved a bit difficult due to my legs feeling like they were up to my waist in treacle.

This was my point really; I did a few of the Lakeland passes last year with my Dad and found them absolutely fine. Later on in the year I strung them all together and kept pressing my shifters hoping the bike had grown an extra few easier gears (Hardknott I'm looking at you...).

A mild power bark saw me through the hardest section but by the finest of margins.

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#23 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 03:05:02 pm

A mild power bark saw me through the hardest section but by the finest of margins.

A what?

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#24 Re: Triathlon advice/wisdom
May 22, 2021, 03:37:57 pm
I’m definitely not thinking “I’ll piss it” or that I’ll finish 10th, or 20th or anything like that. Top half would be amazing but just after a grand day out. When I say I’m happy with the ride and run I mean that as long as I take it steady I’m confident that if I make it out of the water, barring injury or incident, I can make it to the end before cut off. Of course if I go off like a loon I’ll blow up quickly and it’ll be no fun. Hopefully I’ll not do that...

And also completely agree that linking lots of big climbs together is very different to getting up one hill, both on bike and foot.

I’ve only drive up Hardknott not ridden it but I suspect it’s a fair step up from the struggle (especially if you’re heading up it at the end of a ride...)

 

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