[Dexter]

Hi everyone. My friend recently built his own home board (like everyone with lockdown), and had made some magnetic tags to mark routes out (rather than forking out for expensive LEDs) and I'm wondering if there's actually a market to sell them, especially with so many people having home boards. So I thought the good people of UKB would be a good group to ask.
I'll also try to upload a couple of pictures when I can.

[Dexter]

https://flic.kr/p/2kVQb3j

This is what they look like

[Adam Lincoln]

The cord looks annoying and like it would get in the way. What about most people who have wooden holds with screws instead?

Much easier buying those stickers you got at school as kids and using those.

[User deactivated.]

Im not sure what this achieves? Surely remembering 5 moves at a time isn't that hard?

If the intention is recording problems for later sessions then there are already mobile apps that provide a neat and easy way to do this.

[webbo]

Being very old school. I just numbered all the holds on my board, then just write the problems down in an exercise book.

[Anti]

Not really interested in it as a product or think there's much of a market for it given there's apps like RetroFlash which do a great job of storing routes etc. However had to comment that your friend's board has an immaculate finish. Looks better than my dining table.

[Nibile]

I think they're only good to avoid the notorious French Thumb.
Which should be avoided anyway by any climber with some self respect.

[Nutty]

I'm sure I'd manage to snag a finger in the cord loop when going for the hold - probably better for this not to be a loop? I wouldn't buy them myself - I don't need the holds marked as I can remember the holds whilst doing/trying the problem and record problems in a file of annotated photos otherwise. My holds are a mix of bolt-on and screw-on and problems usually include a mix of both. Some of my fixings are stainless as well (garden board) which can be non-magnetic.

[remus]

Interesting idea. UKB probably isn't the market for them.

[Plattsy]

This is probably wrong.
Would a stronger magnet help remove the need for the cord by being able to detach the magnet marker from the bolt.

[SA Chris]

I've seen some low budget version using tiddlywinks and magnets out of fridge doors glued on too.

[Dexter]

Thanks for the input everyone. In my limited experience of using them once I didn't catch my fingers in the chord (maybe happened once) but the chord could probably be shortened to mitigate this. I found the chord helped to find footholds when using a feet follows type of problem.

On the note of there being apps for logging problems or using a book with numbered holds I don't think this is to compete with that but more to mark out which problem you're currently trying. I guess it is more for the niche market of people who struggle to remember which holds they're using on a problem which regular UKB board users probably don't fit into.

[sdm]

Each to their own, but I'm not sure I understand the use case for them.

If I'm trying a project for a long time, I'm not going to have a problem remembering which holds are in.

The time where I need help remembering is for volume/endurance sessions like doing a different problem every minute etc. But in that situation, there wouldn't be time to reset the magnets.

You could make a homemade LED system for <£100 that would solve this problem so all it takes is a swipe on your phone to switch to the next problem.

[Paul B]

Interesting idea. UKB probably isn't the market for them.

I could see them being used in a coaching setting rather than a laser pointer / broom handle.

You could make a homemade LED system for <£100 that would solve this problem so all it takes is a swipe on your phone to switch to the next problem.

Is it that easy (e.g. is there a RasPiBoard edition)? I don't really get on with LED systems personally, I mean they look nice but when I've been on a board with others I've just let them light up what they want and tried my best to remember my problem.

[SA Chris]

I agree, can see these being useful for coaching and quick problem setting where most / all holds are bolt ons.

[Dexter]

I agree, can see these being useful for coaching and quick problem setting where most / all holds are bolt ons.

Does this mean then that they're maybe more useful at the local wall rather than on a home board. I agree that the bolt on only is a bit of a limitation.

As for having multiple problems, these could be done in multiple colours but then it get's a bit complicated if they have overlapping holds. For installing LEDs is it that simple and cheap, especially if people have already built their board and it's not so easy to get behind it.

[SA Chris]

I agree, can see these being useful for coaching and quick problem setting where most / all holds are bolt ons.

Does this mean then that they're maybe more useful at the local wall rather than on a home board. I agree that the bolt on only is a bit of a limitation.

Yes. Beginning of the session coach can set half a dozen problems for acolytes to work on in a session, easily removed after or tweaked during session.

[User deactivated.]

I wonder if LED's could feature more heavily in the main areas of climbing walls?

Imagine every wall in the depot filled with holds, like a board, but not necessarily as densely populated. The route setters then just program in their problems and everyone uses an app, perhaps even have tablets dotted around in a safe locations but close to each wall.

This allows for problems to stay up longer giving people chance to do harder stuff and monitor progress, way more variation and problems to go at, and less down time from resetting.

Potential downsides? Maybe holds getting dirtier from less frequent resetting, and more smashing your knees on a jug when your foot pings off on a vertical wall.

[Oldmanmatt]

Too expensive.
LEDs I mean.
If anyone can come up with a cheaper version of the Moon system, I promise I won’t tell... 

[mr chaz]

Tassles for your jugs!

[Fiend]

My gut reaction is that this is a totally fine idea and might be useful to some people.

[36chambers]

Too expensive.
LEDs I mean.
If anyone can come up with a cheaper version of the Moon system, I promise I won’t tell... 

Just stick a load of laser pens in a shoepod. Easy.

[mrjonathanr]

I think they're only good to avoid the notorious French Thumb.
Which should be avoided anyway by any climber with some self respect.

Unless you’re French.

[tomtom]

Too expensive.
LEDs I mean.
If anyone can come up with a cheaper version of the Moon system, I promise I won’t tell... 

The hardwood holds guys have one. Think it’s about 600-1000 for the leds and the controller.

I looked into this and it’s basically a string of leds called by a wee controller and a front end on a raspberry pi or something.

I think the cost issues are the software to store your problems etc. (It’s easy enough to write the python scripts to do individual problems - but all the memory/buttons stuff is a drag/time etc.). Also the led chain. The leds (damn forgotten their name) can all the chained together on three wires (juice and a control wire) - so you program which one is where after putting them in.

I could find all the bits to make one - but the led string looked like you either bought one from HWH or made your own (leds wire and a soldering iron etc..). You can get Xmas tree light leds that are of the same/similar type - but they seem to be just geared up to flash in order etc…

[Oldmanmatt]

Too expensive.
LEDs I mean.
If anyone can come up with a cheaper version of the Moon system, I promise I won’t tell... 

Just stick a load of laser pens in a shoepod. Easy.

To be fair, I usually just take one of the kids and a laser pen or a broom handle.
This may actually be more expensive, in the long run, but can fetch a coffee or pass the chalk, so worth it.

[highrepute]

I like the little magnet things. Could see them being good for with the kids.

Thought I'd respond to led board discussion.

I've made my own LED board. Materials cost about £200, but easily be less than £100 if you've got things like an old monitor lying around. My system is on a few home boards now and probably is a few evenings work to fit. You do need access to the back of the board. We ordered the LEDs from China built to spec in the end, although for the first board I spent days extending wires on an led string from eBay.

The software is on raspberry pi. I reckon it was about 3-4 months of full-time hours to write. So about £20k+ of a contractors time. That's really where the effort is. But it was only a few hours work to get the LEDs going, most of the work is making it suitable for wider use. The next step was to move away from the monitor keyboard approach and to a phone app, but that's out of my skill set and even more time.

Digital training boards has done some amazing stuff with his system Instagram link. The hardwood holds system sounds very reasonably priced when I consider the effort that went into mine.

Was it worth it? I've used boards with LEDs for years and obviously managed fine with just writing problems down. But I really think the led system is worth it, especially with friends, but even on my own it's just somehow better.

[tomtom]

Shit - may have mixed up digital training boards and Hardwood holds in my head…

High repute - where did you get your led string from?

I was thinking of just setting up a script for each prob to light it up rather than anything more fancy…

[highrepute]

Was it worth it? I've used boards with LEDs for years and obviously managed fine with just writing problems down. But I really think the led system is worth it, especially with friends, but even on my own it's just somehow better.

That should have said without LEDs.

LEDs from Alibaba TomTom. There's loads on eBay that are really cheap but they only have 7.5cm between LEDs. Search for WS2811 string. We got some with 30cm between LEDs from Alibaba but min order was 500. Mind you this was a few years ago now, might find something suitable now. I also have a bunch spare I could sell you, I bought enough to do one more board than I ever got round to doing. How many would you need?

I'd be up for you basically installing my system, I have a sort of instruction manual. But have very little spare time to support.

[tomtom]

Had a good google - can only find ones with 75mm spacing - though they’re pretty cheap £10-15 for 50 - so you could buy a string of 100 and only use 30 or 40 of them etc…

If you’ve some spare - happy to buy them off you. And any knowledge would be great - but I wouldn’t want to be badgering you about stuff…

But an open source solution would be great wouldn’t it - ideal to be put on a Git etc..

Need a project to get stuck into!

[lagerstarfish]

Too expensive.
LEDs I mean.
If anyone can come up with a cheaper version of the Moon system, I promise I won’t tell... 

I still think a progammable laser projector might be a more flexible option - and allow for many more holds to be put on the wall

create a JPEG for each problem (use a photo of the wall as a background template with corner markers to get alignment perfect)

https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/Electronic_Gadgets/Laser_Gadgets/Programmable_Laser_Light_Show_System_My_Effect_II_-_Red_Green_and_Purple_Laser_Custom_Annimations/

[highrepute]

Had a good google - can only find ones with 75mm spacing - though they’re pretty cheap £10-15 for 50 - so you could buy a string of 100 and only use 30 or 40 of them etc…

If you’ve some spare - happy to buy them off you. And any knowledge would be great - but I wouldn’t want to be badgering you about stuff…

But an open source solution would be great wouldn’t it - ideal to be put on a Git etc..

Need a project to get stuck into!

Thinking about the open source idea. I'm thinking I'll post all the info on my LED board as a resource for others. I have various documents listing what I bought, how I did various bits that might be useful. The code is all on GitHub.

I'll pm you about the LEDs.

[Oldmanmatt]

Too expensive.
LEDs I mean.
If anyone can come up with a cheaper version of the Moon system, I promise I won’t tell... 

I still think a progammable laser projector might be a more flexible option - and allow for many more holds to be put on the wall

create a JPEG for each problem (use a photo of the wall as a background template with corner markers to get alignment perfect)

https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/Electronic_Gadgets/Laser_Gadgets/Programmable_Laser_Light_Show_System_My_Effect_II_-_Red_Green_and_Purple_Laser_Custom_Annimations/

Yeah, keep thinking this would be an idea, can’t get around the climber being in the way of the image (at least, not in my imagination).
I have even thought of just putting holes in the board, with a projector behind, but the structure gets in the way.
I’ve seen similar done with a straightforward projector, a cheap pad, a photo and “Markup” overlay.
One insta account, I saw sometime back, the guy had all white holds and just projected colours onto his problems. Same deal, photo of the board, marked and projected back.

[lagerstarfish]

Too expensive.
LEDs I mean.
If anyone can come up with a cheaper version of the Moon system, I promise I won’t tell... 

I still think a progammable laser projector might be a more flexible option - and allow for many more holds to be put on the wall

create a JPEG for each problem (use a photo of the wall as a background template with corner markers to get alignment perfect)

https://www.chinavasion.com/china/wholesale/Electronic_Gadgets/Laser_Gadgets/Programmable_Laser_Light_Show_System_My_Effect_II_-_Red_Green_and_Purple_Laser_Custom_Annimations/

Yeah, keep thinking this would be an idea, can’t get around the climber being in the way of the image (at least, not in my imagination).
I have even thought of just putting holes in the board, with a projector behind, but the structure gets in the way.
I’ve seen similar done with a straightforward projector, a cheap pad, a photo and “Markup” overlay.
One insta account, I saw sometime back, the guy had all white holds and just projected colours onto his problems. Same deal, photo of the board, marked and projected back.

Two (or more) projectors