[Paul B]

I thought a new thread was in order given there's a wealth of understanding I simply don't possess when it comes to electric vehicles, what's on offer and what the realities are of living with one (and charging it on longer journeys).

My mother-in-law is no longer in need of two vehicles (sadly as my father-in-law passed away pretty suddenly earlier this year).

As a household they had two cars:
BMW 430i Gran Coupe (auto)
Ford Fiesta 1.0T (manual)

He's always been one for big, thirsty BMWs (7-series, X5 4.4i etc.) and TBH when it came to her cars I think she just indulged him (apart from the Fiesta which was her choice and has been utterly brilliant).

At the end of Jun, the BMW needs an MOT, tax and service, which given it's still picking up the luxury car tax is an eye wateringly expensive month and she's looking to get rid of it and there's the risk of her trading it in for a 1-series (and also getting rid of the Fiesta) as she's had one before and it kinda meets her needs.

She lives pretty close to us (30 mins) and exclusively does short trips although there's mention of wanting to go down south to see the extended family every once in a while (suggesting the train for this will be a hard sell). She's got a new build house (~4 years old) that they had the consumer unit relocated to the garage so I can't see that installing a charging port will be an issue?

She's mid 60s but when she was younger owned, drove and re-built Triumphs. When in the car she brakes so late that you'll have time to warn her of a hazard, have her respond (calmly) and then she'll brake, harshly; this isn't someone who'd be looking at a Honda Jazz with enthusiasm. Although it's incredibly sad that she's lost her husband, looking at my parents and Nat's, she's by far the best placed of the lot of them to cope and since the loss she's a had the attitude of "if I can do it  then I bloody well will". This so far has included filling the fiesta with gardening equipment, including a not all that light lawnmower, and taking it over to her allotment. Yesterday she got me to show her how keyless chucks worked etc.

It's worth noting that the majority of her friends are of a similar age and aren't all as capable. She's suggested that a five-door is a must and that as she doesn't intend to be buying another soon the car has "a touch of luxury" (the BMW is really nice inside).

COVID obviously makes browsing a little harder but I was wondering if it's worth looking into some kind of slightly longer test drive as I can't imagine she's the only one needing convincing of the virtues of all-electric.

Any beta? 

[Stabbsy]

Not much beta at the minute, other than we’ve just bought one (or at least the wife has). Test drove a Nissan Leaf and an e-Golf over the last week and went for the Golf. I didn’t get to drive it because of the way the garage did the insurance, but did go out in it. Basically the same as a Golf inside, but exceptionally quiet. Seemed to have a decent amount of power and acceleration was very smooth. It was automatic (I think all electric cars are?) but seemed to have got rid of the old issue that automatics had where they had no power while they changed gear. That said, the last time I drove one was a hire car in the States about 15 years ago, so I’d hope technology has moved on a bit.

Getting delivered in a week or so, but can report back when I’ve had chance to drive it.

[RobK]

I don't know what the budget is, but if a 1-series is sort of in the ballpark of what she's after, perhaps the two obvious candidates are the Leaf and the ID.3. The Leaf probably (definitely) falls down in the "touch of luxury" department and personally I just find them really dull. The ID.3 maybe closer to the mark? It's basically the replacement for the Golf. Maybe not luxury but the interior looks relatively smart. You'll have to buy it new at the minute. FWIW even run of the mill EVs can be a relatively fun drive because of how fast they are off the line. By the sounds of it both of these should give enough range for what she's after. I also like the look of the e208, a bit smaller but a nice balance of price and range. I haven't been in one  but a friend said it felt like the suspension was made of whatever they could find in the local scrapyard.

The higher end candidates are obviously Tesla and then in dreamland the Taycan/E-Tron GT. If you are regularly doing long journeys, Tesla's charging network is years ahead of the rest, but doesn't sound like this is a huge concern.

[tomtom]

If she likes BMW's - i3?

Zoe (latest 135 ones you can get a 1YO one for c.£20k, 250+ mile range....)

but ID3 has to be the sweet spot here...

(eMini supposed to be good fun - but not a massive range - which might not be an issue here..)

[Paul B]

If she likes BMW's - i3?

They're a bit overtly EV but once inside they do look like they fit the bill. I wonder if you can arrange long test drives of such things?

but ID3 has to be the sweet spot here...

There's one of these that lives near me clearly as it overtakes me almost every time I go out on the bike. It looks awesome and I never hear it coming!

(eMini supposed to be good fun - but not a massive range - which might not be an issue here..)

This is where I think the reality of the situation hasn't yet presented itself. Minis are being viewed as too small (even the 5-door) which I'm not sure I agree with. The range likewise, I just don't see it as an issue.

I don't know what the budget is, but if a 1-series is sort of in the ballpark...

I haven't had a quote on trade in value for the 430i (it seemed a bit off without being directly asked) but I'm thinking it's somewhere between 17-20k at a guess. I'm not sure she'd be wanting to put a great deal of cash in but the Fiesta will have a fair amount of residual value given it's done half of FA miles.

[remus]

It was automatic (I think all electric cars are?) but seemed to have got rid of the old issue that automatics had where they had no power while they changed gear. That said, the last time I drove one was a hire car in the States about 15 years ago, so I’d hope technology has moved on a bit.

Electric cars typically don't have a way of changing gear at all as electric engines can provide useful power at decent efficiency across a much wider range of RPMs than ICE engines. For example, a random article I just found online suggests that the motors used in electric cars can rev to 20k RPM with no issues. (I guess there's a lot of detail Im glossing over here, but that's the broad strokes).

[SamT]

Didn't think EVs even had gearboxs.. I think its just linear power output from the motor, 0 to ~20,000 revs.. thus no physical changing of gears.

Highly tempted by an EV at the moment, but having said that, plumped for another Mundano estate as we're fully expecting to be taking off this year with a boot full of camping kit etc, and we normally drive to the alps as a family. 

Toying with the idea of leasing a small EV for local running around, which I have to admit is the vast majority of our use, but can't quite justify the 3-400 a month for it.

Leasing might well be a good option though, since the 2nd hand value is going to be pants due to the massive acceleration in tech.  Who wants to buy a 3 year old EV.

[RobK]

Didn't think EVs even had gearboxs.. I think its just linear power output from the motor, 0 to ~20,000 revs.. thus no physical changing of gears.

...

Leasing might well be a good option though, since the 2nd hand value is going to be pants due to the massive acceleration in tech.  Who wants to buy a 3 year old EV.

Continuous, not linear. (If only!)

And yes, the depreciation and the unknown of the second hand market is the main reason putting me off.

[remus]

Didn't think EVs even had gearboxs.. I think its just linear power output from the motor, 0 to ~20,000 revs.. thus no physical changing of gears.

Pretty sure there'll be some gearing in there somewhere as a wheel with a 25" OD spinning at 20k RPM ~= 1500 MPH 

[SamT]

 

Yeah, but no need to shift between gears.

[chris j]

Would plug-in hybrid work as the latest generation typically have a longer battery range than a couple of years ago that might cover all local journeys + increasing choice so she could keep with the BMW for example (3 series now available).

Otherwise Volvo XC40 recharge fully electric can be ordered now, I think more or less exclusively through a simple online subscription model, or BMW iX3 and i4 are coming soon but both I would think will be late in the year (& not cheap).

iD3 is from what I read disappointingly cheap feeling inside (the Skoda version is supposed to be nicer!)?

The Taycan has two forward gears though I think the low gear is only used for all-out 'launch-control' starts.

[Catcheemonkey]

If your MIL can wait a few months there are lots of options coming out this year from mainstream manufacturers.

Depending on budget, leasing a Skoda Enyaq, VW ID4 or Audi Q4 E-tron might suit her.

I've been in an EV for 2 years now and can't emphasise how easy it is to adapt, once you get over the initial mileage anxiety. 99% of my journeys I just unplug the car and go. For the few round trips >200 miles I do it's really no more than planning where to stop and factoring in 1/2 an hour to get a coffee.

[Teaboy]

A colleague of mine has a BMW i3 and absolutely raves about it. He races Lotus's and single seater hill climbers so knows a bit about cars.

[tlr]

BMW lent is an i3s for 24 hours recently, so it is definitely possible to get longer tests.

We also test drove an iD3, and then ordered one.

The issues with the i3 were the strange door configuration - you have to open the front door to be able to open the rear suicide door, and the range which is realistically not much more than 100 miles.

The iD3 has a real range of about 200 miles, so quite a difference. I’d read a few reviews which loved the iD3 but criticised the interior, but it honestly didn’t strike me as terrible - maybe more ‘appliancey’ than luxury, but perfectly ok (and we currently have an A3 and an A6).

For what it’s worth, the iD3 and i3s both felt pretty similar to me - there is not much interaction with an electric car to differentiate them!

The iD3 will be the first car we’ve ever leased, but it seems make sense given the pace of development, uncertain future value and super cheap salary sacrifice deals (not relevant I guess!).

The VW arrives in a couple of weeks, so we’ll find out more then.

[Moo]

Good thread. It's interesting to see the electric van market coming on quite fast, seems like tradesmen are catching on quite quick to the long term potential savings for having electric vans around london (congestion charge etc).

It'll be interesting to see how the pace of charging infrastructure development is able to keep up with demand.

https://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/statistics/

I'm finding it quite difficult to get a grip on whether or not electric cars are actually better for the environment as there's so many differing opinions. It seems like the more we switch over to electric the better it will be as economies of scale and efficiency improvements during production kick in. Does anyone have any solid non biased info on this?

[tomtom]

From what I've read the carbon benefits are not massive - but the real winner is air pollution.

There are particulates from the tyres and brakes - but no N02 or diesel particulates.

Nothing like pushing a pram around city streets to focus the mind on the issues of cars and cities....


I'm waiting for the right moment to get an EV. I'd love one. The house with a driveway (for charging point) is what needs to come first for me - not enough charging infrastructure in the 'burbs of Manchester at the moment.

[Paul B]

BMW lent is an i3s for 24 hours recently, so it is definitely possible to get longer tests.

We also test drove an iD3, and then ordered one.

Excellent! I've floated the idea (TBH I'd also like to have a drive of one).

[tomtom]

Skoda Enjak (Enyak? Enyaq?) looks like it fits to the bill for many - decent sized boot....

[Durbs]

My folks are very happy with their Zoe, though notably use the other car for longer journeys.
Partly range, partly comfort.

I'm looking at hybrid SUVs at the moment (as hybrid MPVs don't seem to be thing?) - XC60/90 get good reviews; electric for short journeys, combustion for longer.

I mean, if budget isn't an issue - get a Model X...

[Catcheemonkey]

I'm finding it quite difficult to get a grip on whether or not electric cars are actually better for the environment as there's so many differing opinions. It seems like the more we switch over to electric the better it will be as economies of scale and efficiency improvements during production kick in. Does anyone have any solid non biased info on this?

There are clearly a lot of 'hidden' emissions in the production process and the mining of rare metals for EV batteries.

My take is this is being overstated though and unfounded claims are being widely reported. For example, the claim that EVs need to be driven 50,000 miles before they are cleaner than ICE vehicles, reported in the UK press last year, was concocted by a motor-industry think tank.

I've seen reference to EVs producing a third of the carbon emissions of an ICE vehicle over their life (eg here). I’m not the man to tell you if these assessments are academically rigorous and impartial though.

[Paul B]

I mean, if budget isn't an issue - get a Model X...

It'll be an issue if it exceeds the value of the two cars combined I should imagine. Looking at BMW's stock online they have two i3s in stock and they're £28k (used approved; 1k miles).

[SamT]

I'm finding it quite difficult to get a grip on whether or not electric cars are actually better for the environment as there's so many differing opinions. It seems like the more we switch over to electric the better it will be as economies of scale and efficiency improvements during production kick in. Does anyone have any solid non biased info on this?

My take in this is that once the grid is green, and its becoming more so all the time, then the only 'bad' emissions will come from the manufacture and production of the car/batteries, which IMHO, are almost certainly in a par with the environmental impact of the oil industry.
I feel that if(when) I get an EV, I'll be doing my bit and the de-carbonising of the grid is something that isn't my responsibility, its governments responsibility.  Which I can only influence through my vote etc. 

That, and I'll be pumping less lung damaging particulates into the street outside the primary school. 

I think batteries are only a stop gap for a couple of decades till hydrogen fuel cells come on line, which are essentially clean batteries.  The electric motor tech in the vehicles will stay the same.  Think this topic has been covered elsewhere maybe?

[tommytwotone]

While we're doing a roundup of the electric whips on the market right now, what about the Honda E, which is (IMO) by far the coolest EV on the market?


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/honda/e/long-term-reviews/honda-e-2021-long-term-review


Compromised by range (135 miles tops), but I guess if you're mainly doing short journeys...

[Catcheemonkey]

You can also edge the market towards green electricity supply by buying through a renewable energy supplier like Octopus.

[tommytwotone]

Looks like Honda are doing some cool stuff re: charging your car at the most cost-effective time as well:


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/honda-e-owners-offered-new-smart-home-charging-service