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Tech tips you can use (Read 5065 times)

jwi

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Tech tips you can use
April 12, 2021, 10:06:53 pm
I'll start off this thread with a thing I discovered today, and I can't believe I have not done before.

Problem: On long steep routes with spaced bolts it is a real pain to boink, especially with thin modern ropes.

Solution: Clip a wild country ropeman to the emergency quickdraw you carry anyway. It is about five to ten times easier to boink pulling up on a draw with a fat sling than on a slick 9 mm rope.

Duma

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#1 Re: Tech tips you can use
April 13, 2021, 12:31:30 am
I like the idea of this, but I'm a bit scared of the teeth on my  ropeman, so try to keep it for more dire situations than this. Would a mini trax or a rollnlock work?

remus

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#2 Re: Tech tips you can use
April 13, 2021, 07:18:59 am
In a similar vein, getting a good boink is a lot easier when your belayer is hanging from the rope. One trick I've used when belaying someone who had to boink a long way is to have an ascender nearby, then when they fall off I'll ascend the belay end of the rope as far as possible (i.e. first or second bolt) to allow the climber a 15ft or so of good boinking. Rinse and repeat.

jwi

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#3 Re: Tech tips you can use
April 13, 2021, 07:26:00 am
I like the idea of this, but I'm a bit scared of the teeth on my  ropeman, so try to keep it for more dire situations than this. Would a mini trax or a rollnlock work?

I have a ropeman without teeth. I wouldn't use a tibloc or a ropeman 2 or anything with teeth. A short bit of prussic maybe?

In a similar vein, getting a good boink is a lot easier when your belayer is hanging from the rope. One trick I've used when belaying someone who had to boink a long way is to have an ascender nearby, then when they fall off I'll ascend the belay end of the rope as far as possible (i.e. first or second bolt) to allow the climber a 15ft or so of good boinking. Rinse and repeat.
That sounds like a great idea!

spidermonkey09

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#4 Re: Tech tips you can use
April 13, 2021, 08:47:56 am
Seen a prussik used in this manner with good results in Rodellar.


Bradders

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#5 Re: Tech tips you can use
April 13, 2021, 10:41:10 am
In a similar vein, getting a good boink is a lot easier when your belayer is hanging from the rope. One trick I've used when belaying someone who had to boink a long way is to have an ascender nearby, then when they fall off I'll ascend the belay end of the rope as far as possible (i.e. first or second bolt) to allow the climber a 15ft or so of good boinking. Rinse and repeat.

On the other hand, it seems like the best way to get a consistent belayer is to be boinking them  ;) :lets_do_it_wild:

Ali

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#6 Re: Tech tips you can use
April 13, 2021, 11:53:13 am
My hands are so stiff they don't curl tight enough to grip a rope well (and I'm weak) so I've found the prussic and quickdraw to be the only way I can boink up a rope. The prussic used as a footloop also comes in very handy to aid between bolts!

abarro81

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#7 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 22, 2022, 11:26:36 am
Related to this topic - does anyone have any good beta for getting back up a rope when boinking isn't really viable (lots of rope out, drag, lighter belayer than climber, etc.). When bolts are close on a roof trav I've used the trick of hanging a piece of knotted rope (to pull back up), but what about when that's not viable? Just prussic back up?

m.cooke.1421

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#8 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 22, 2022, 11:58:03 am
Put your foot on the rope next to where you are tied in then pull yourself up on the rope. You can then stand up and reach further than if you just pull up on the rope. It is only going to help if you can then reach the draw although it can also be used for boinking if you aren't strong enough to pull up on a 9mm rope as well.

abarro81

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#9 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 22, 2022, 01:52:43 pm
Yeah I know that trick but have never found it that useful...

Johnny Brown

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#10 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 22, 2022, 02:03:36 pm
I like the idea of this, but I'm a bit scared of the teeth on my  ropeman, so try to keep it for more dire situations than this. Would a mini trax or a rollnlock work?

I have a ropeman without teeth. I wouldn't use a tibloc or a ropeman 2 or anything with teeth. A short bit of prussic maybe?

I've  never seen a ropeman without teeth. Presumably you mean the mk 1 with the big flat teeth in rows?

The nice thing about devices with small pointed teeth like the ropeman mk 2, tibloc or almost any other ascender is that if overloaded they only damage the sheath. When, some years ago, we did drop tests on ropeman mk 1 it was one of only two devices (the other being a titanium Ushba 'rocker' that it is highly unlikely you own) to chop the rope completely. I've regarded them with suspicion ever since. Using them like this is probably ok but putting them on runners when simul climbing seems like a really bad idea.

Paul B

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#11 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 22, 2022, 09:24:21 pm
Yeah I know that trick but have never found it that useful...

I reckon unless there's someone on the ground to help as Kentledge then some form of small rope grab will be the only viable option.

rjtrials

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#12 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 22, 2022, 10:27:58 pm
Prussik on the dog draw and an ascender with the belayer is pretty standard fair for the steep sandstone routes I tend to climb on.  My prussik cord lives on the draw and the ascender gets thrown into the pack depending on the crag of the day.


Related to this topic - does anyone have any good beta for getting back up a rope when boinking isn't really viable (lots of rope out, drag, lighter belayer than climber, etc.). When bolts are close on a roof trav I've used the trick of hanging a piece of knotted rope (to pull back up), but what about when that's not viable? Just prussic back up?

Prussik and gri gri?  A few bits of kit doesn't add much weight, especially if it is a working go.

Getting the belayer up off the ground a good ways, with the ascender, does wonders for your ability to boink tho...

jwi

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#13 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 23, 2022, 11:47:43 am
I like the idea of this, but I'm a bit scared of the teeth on my  ropeman, so try to keep it for more dire situations than this. Would a mini trax or a rollnlock work?

I have a ropeman without teeth. I wouldn't use a tibloc or a ropeman 2 or anything with teeth. A short bit of prussic maybe?

I've  never seen a ropeman without teeth. Presumably you mean the mk 1 with the big flat teeth in rows?

Yeah, I have the mk1, so flat teeth is a better description. The device does not always succeed to stick to 9mm ropes otherwise it works great for boinking. I have heard that some newer/better small ascenders have a tendency to shoot up the rope when you suddenly let go but I have no personal experience of this.

Nowadays Julia always jumar up to the first bolt whenever I need to boink up the rope and whenever I suspect this will happen I try not to clip the first bolt giving her some more distance to the first draw.

Related to this topic - does anyone have any good beta for getting back up a rope when boinking isn't really viable (lots of rope out, drag, lighter belayer than climber, etc.). When bolts are close on a roof trav I've used the trick of hanging a piece of knotted rope (to pull back up), but what about when that's not viable? Just prussic back up?

On multipitch routes with steep parts most climbers tend to bring an extra ascender and use that with the belay device they need anyway. (Like this: https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/lose-the-prusiks-the-smarter-way-to-ascend-a-rope or easier if the leader also bring a grigri for some reason). I almost always haul the bag with a directional pulley so I have all the gear needed on the harness anyway and don't need to bring anything extra.

For single pitch I imagine that a single short prusik in the harness and wrapping the rope around the foot would work for someone reasonably fit, but I have not tried this in anger.

Paul B

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#14 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 23, 2022, 11:55:18 am
Yeah, I have the mk1, so flat teeth is a better description. The device does not always succeed to stick to 9mm ropes otherwise it works great for boinking. I have heard that some newer/better small ascenders have a tendency to shoot up the rope when you suddenly let go but I have no personal experience of this.

I had a brainwave that Nat would follow me on the Grand Wall in Squamish with a lightweight setup where the top ascender was a micro-traxion (the bottom was possibly a GG we already had on us). I don't know quite what went on but it ended up being fired through a DMM Phantom and causing a complete cluster and a large/loud marital disagreement as the sun came round onto the face. I think this is the reason I don't really rate the route as the memory is a tad tainted!  :worms:

Will Hunt

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#15 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 24, 2022, 01:51:12 pm
I'm pretty sure this is me being really stupid and there's an obvious solution. Please help.

Picture a crag with a flat top and a belay at ground level. You want to abseil over the edge on a GriGri to work a climb. The climb is quite steep (30 degrees or so) and there isn't really anything for your feet down there. How do you lower yourself over the edge without absolutely ragging the fuck out of your GriGri as it grinds over the edge? At one point I was basically stuck, not able to get any purchase with my feet on the overhanging wall below, with the loaded device resting on the edge of the angle of the crag. If I go back I need to get a rope protector involved as well.

Maybe just start at the bottom and jug up the rope?

Johnny Brown

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#16 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 24, 2022, 02:15:46 pm
Footloop on ascender above edge.

Will Hunt

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#17 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 24, 2022, 02:21:25 pm
Footloop on ascender above edge.

Ah, yes that will work. Thanks!

Duma

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#18 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 24, 2022, 02:55:07 pm
Guess you wouldn't even need the ascender - as you could just leave the footloop there once your weight is transferred.

Will Hunt

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#19 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 24, 2022, 03:00:03 pm
Guess you wouldn't even need the ascender - as you could just leave the footloop there once your weight is transferred.

Yep, not to mention that I don't own an ascender so it'll have to be a prussik. It'll be stuck in position once the rope is loaded so probably better a prussik loop being tight against the top of the crag rather than an ascender.

Moo

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#20 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 24, 2022, 05:52:43 pm
If you’re using a rope protector on the edge you can clip your foot loop to the Prussic holding that in place too.

MischaHY

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#21 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 28, 2022, 11:43:26 am
Perhaps I'm picturing this wrong but when I've done this in the past I've just leant back with straight legs until legs are horizontal and level with the edge. At this point you can just bend your legs and the rope will load the edge with you below it. Ideally you'll have installed a rope protector to pull into position before actually loading the edge.

Moo

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#22 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 28, 2022, 04:39:44 pm
That’ll work with varying degrees of difficulty depending on the angle of the rope in relation to the edge you’re going over.

If the rope is anchored much higher than the edge then this would be pretty straight forwards. Conversely if it’s anchored level to or lower than the edge it’ll be significantly more difficulty, particularly if the edge is undercut.

remus

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#23 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 28, 2022, 10:21:37 pm
Conversely if it’s anchored level to or lower than the edge it’ll be significantly more difficulty, particularly if the edge is undercut.

I took my partner to the burren without realising she hadn't done much trad/abseiling before. Gave her a crash course in abseiling: "feet on the edge, legs straight, gently let some rope through the device" etc. She followed the instructions to the T while abbing in next to mirror wall before promptly flipping upside down (thankfully she was wearing a helmet and had the good sense to not let go of the rope). Cue much apologising from me.

jwi

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#24 Re: Tech tips you can use
August 29, 2022, 09:13:09 am
Here is another random tip:

Some climbing gyms have installed cracks. Mostly hand-cracks for some reason. You will of course bring fairly tight banana shaped shoes to the gym. If someone randomly ask you to demonstrate how to climb these cracks and you do not want to pay a few euros to rent oversized flat rental shoes, just pop the heel off your perfomance slipper so you don't have to break the feet to slowly climb some 5.9 hands while showing the proper hand-foot pattern.

I cannot believe how long time it took me to figure that out.


[edit] Popping off the heel can also be helpful when smearing on volumes on slabs [/edit]
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 09:22:47 am by jwi »

 

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