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Griffs Access (Read 7571 times)

yetix

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Griffs Access
April 09, 2021, 03:31:09 pm
Couple of friends were at Griffs yesterday and when leaving bumped into the landowner who said something along the lines of "you're on private land, and if you injure yourself then we are liable. you can climb across the road which is public, but not this side (Griffs)"

Fairly certain that the landowners comments about liability are untrue, however could be some potential access issues so thought I would post this here.


Also FYI most of Griffs is dry I hear other than the bovine start hold and crack and possibly a few lower starts

abarro81

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#1 Re: Griffs Access
April 09, 2021, 04:01:16 pm
That side has always technically been no access IIRC, hence why it didn't have a topo or go in a guide for a long time.
Landowners can have liability for accidents on their property (I think this is what scares quarry owners, water companies, councils etc in some cases), but I'm unsure of the details and it wouldn't surprise me if some it is guess work and not well tested in court? Ru or BMC people may know more.

galpinos

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#2 Re: Griffs Access
April 09, 2021, 04:03:29 pm
Dan, DM Bonjoy the details. He's the BMC Peak Limestone Access Rep I believe.

Bonjoy

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#3 Re: Griffs Access
April 09, 2021, 09:23:07 pm
While this is common concern for landowners it's almost entirely unwarranted. The BMC have produced a good leaflet on this. Worth keep a copy/link on your phone for encounters like this.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx%3Fid%3D944&ved=2ahUKEwjozsmg_fHvAhVE_rsIHXsXBbgQFjAFegQIGxAC&usg=AOvVaw0sK4Tan5MgVGuVNX2d8Hc_ 

Bonjoy

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#4 Re: Griffs Access
April 09, 2021, 09:26:03 pm
I think given how rare it is to bump into the landowner here I don't think it's necessary to cease access based on this encounter.
If anyone does meet him again, please pass on BMC contact info, or my details if you have them and maybe point them at that link.

monkey boy

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#5 Re: Griffs Access
April 10, 2021, 10:45:17 am
Also just worth reiterating to try and keep damage to the fence and what used to be a wall to a minimum. I rebuilt the wall a bit last year and tried to make it easier to get over the fence without standing on it. Might be worth a bit of effort to maintain when people start going.

Bonjoy

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#6 Re: Griffs Access
April 10, 2021, 06:35:56 pm
 :agree:
The wire on the fence is damaged in places due to people standing on it, which is completely unnecessary as you can stride over it without great effort. It could do with some supplementary bits of wire adding to back up areas where bits have snapped. I've done this with reasonable success in the past.

kac

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#7 Re: Griffs Access
April 21, 2021, 01:41:55 pm
I met the farmer today as I was leaving griffs. He did make it clear it was private land and in the conversation it came up that he was worried about the fence. However, he seemed a nice chap and I got the impression that he would be open to allowing informal access. He seemed most annoyed that no one had ever asked him if it was OK to access the climbing. He didn't ask me to leave as I was leaving anyway and it was all very amicable. I did mention the bmc would be a point of contact to discuss access. So please be careful with the fence and be polite if you speak to him and leave if asked to do so.

tomtom

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#8 Re: Griffs Access
April 21, 2021, 01:55:50 pm
I know its good conditions at the moment, but isnt it a good idea to try and give Griffs a wee bit of a wide berth at the moment - or at least be really careful about how its left etc..?

If I were the farmer and only just found out - I'd be craning my neck to see what was going on every time I drove past!!!

Bonjoy

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#9 Re: Griffs Access
April 21, 2021, 02:22:14 pm
Whilst a generally low numbers is good it would be also be great if we could get a name and number/email for the farmer as it sounds like there might be receptive to access discussions. Which is a good reason for clued up folk who've read this thread to not stay away. Ideally we could agree to install or pay for the installation of a stile and a new fence section or two.

kac

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#10 Re: Griffs Access
April 21, 2021, 03:40:22 pm
Yep based on my encounter I agree with that jon. He was a nice chap and his main concern was finding his sheep! Any damage to his fence or if it gets too busy and that may well change. If it happens again I will try to get a contact.

36chambers

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#11 Re: Griffs Access
May 30, 2022, 01:38:51 pm
Live report from a source who's at the crag. Someone (/the landowner) has just now put up a "no access" sign and added a load more barbed wire across the fence.

Kingy

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#12 Re: Griffs Access
May 30, 2022, 06:36:13 pm
What a shame, I hope a solution can be found

yetix

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#13 Re: Griffs Access
June 09, 2022, 11:53:18 pm
Have heard that people have still been going to griffs on the bank holiday weekend and parking was full. If anyone sees anyone there can they please remind them of the current assess issues...

(I know there's a big red sign...)

« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 12:13:51 am by yetix »

tomtom

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#14 Re: Griffs Access
June 10, 2022, 07:06:14 pm
🤦‍♂️

Bradders

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#15 Re: Griffs Access
June 10, 2022, 07:39:47 pm
Parking being full doesn't necessarily mean people are climbing at Griffs, I was there a few weeks ago and it was full despite my being the only one climbing there.

yetix

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#16 Re: Griffs Access
June 11, 2022, 01:14:09 am
The people were at the crag too, sorry that wasn't clear.

Wood FT

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#17 Re: Griffs Access
June 11, 2022, 03:47:40 pm
A barbed wire and a fence can be interpreted in different ways, they might be there to protect the climbers. We've got to be careful not to make sweeping assumptions.

yetix

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#18 Re: Griffs Access
June 11, 2022, 04:13:30 pm
Please refer to the top of the thread over what the landowner has said to people before

Wood FT

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#19 Re: Griffs Access
June 11, 2022, 07:37:14 pm
Right, sarcasm missed. What a daft thing that would be to say. Should put this  ;) but always think that looks a bit naff. Never mind.

yetix

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#20 Re: Griffs Access
June 11, 2022, 07:46:30 pm
My bad! It's been a long week and I defo missed the sarcasm sorry

205Chris

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#21 Re: Griffs Access
June 11, 2022, 08:16:54 pm
I don't think it should be too surprising that people are still climbing at Griff's. Given the Venn diagram of climbers who visit Griff's and UKB users they'll clearly be a lot of people who aren't aware. OK, a sign has gone up but given the land owner made it clear he wasn't happy a year ago and people carried on I can't see many people taking notice of a sign.

As far as I can see UKB is about the only place this is mentioned. There is a minor note on the UKC page for Blackwell Dale, but if you search for a particular problem there's nothing to suggest access is currently banned (or at least best avoided for now).

The BMC RAD also lists Blackwell Dale as Green - I couldn't find a separate entry for Griff's. The BMC Limestone guide documents Griff's and I couldn't see any mention of it being on private land and that access was sensitive (apologies if I've missed it).

Peakbouldering.info only lists it as potentially sensitive.

If the message is to get out it needs to be in more places than just UKB.

It almost certainly hasn't helped the crag has gone from a minor, undocumented crag to one of the biggest limestone bouldering venues in the Peak with all the link ups etc. Now fully documented on UKC & Peakbouldering.info. I doubt an in-situ ladder has helped with the ethic of leave no trace.

So what can be done? Given the paradox of wanting to contact the landowner but encouraging people to stay away from the crag could the BMC proactively put up a sign next to the landowner's asking the landowner to get in touch? I don't know how often the landowner visits but they would be likely to notice it at some point?

I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting pretty sick of access to sensitive crags getting worse largely because of the behaviour of climbers (see also Eagle Tor, Apprentice Wall, Whitehouses, Bradley Quarry). I'm sure there are others but these are the ones that spring to mind.

For what it's worth I'll be staying away, I'm not going to condone something that will potentially make the situation worse.

Maybe all crags with sensitive access need to remain undocumented until the access situation is clear? I know that sometimes not asking is better than asking and being refused, but with the increasing popularity of climbing, fully documenting crags with sensitive access would appear to be asking for trouble.

Until I started attending the Peak Area meets I was totally unaware of how much work goes into securing access to certain crags. The BMC team of volunteers - Adam Long, Jon Fulwood, Henry Folkard and many others deserve a huge amount of praise for their largely unrecognised work. Climbers need to start acting like access to some crags is a privilege and not a right in some cases.

If we want to continue enjoying the luxury of access that we've had in the past, it's clear that something needs to change in future.

Mods - feel free to split off into a separate access topic if you want

Bonjoy

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#22 Re: Griffs Access
June 11, 2022, 09:41:51 pm
I have asked Rob to update the RAD already, but it's not something I can directly do myself.
It's been a difficult week this week and was away the week before. Hopefully efforts to find a contact will be more fruitful next week.

Banana finger

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#23 Re: Griffs Access
September 12, 2022, 10:27:37 am
Are there any updates on the griffs situation?

I miss Griffs like the deserts miss the rain.

Bonjoy

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#24 Re: Griffs Access
September 12, 2022, 10:35:29 am
No new news, sorry. But I do start the new job as BMC Access Officer for England next week and it's high on my to-do list. I wouldn't hold out to much hope for this season, but we should at least have a definitive status by next season, hopefully it's an improved one.

 

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