[yetix]

Congrats on the new role. Hopefully the status can improve a little

[Bonjoy]

Bad news unfortunately on the Griff's/lower Blackwell dale access.
After repeat discussions and visits to the meet the owner I finally got a definitive rejection of our request for access.
Up till now things had been sounding positive if vague, but the final message was clear and sought to draw a line under the matter.
Unfortunately although the the individual we dealt with was quite friendly and didn't seem to have strong views on climbers, he was part of a three person group of owners and I got the distinct impression one of them had stronger views and had been the driver behind the signage. It was also made clear that the NFU had strongly advised the owners to ban climbing access. I intend to take this up with the NFU as this sort of lobbying is massively unhelpful and I expect is based on prejudice and false assumptions.
Damage to the fence was sited as part of the reason for the ban. On that point I have every sympathy with the farmer as the damage was entirely due to carelessness on the part of climbers. Crossing the wall and fence without damage was awkward but not technical for anyone capable of even the easiest climb at Griff's. Nor was it difficult to put wall stones back in place if disturbed while crossing. I personally made makeshift repairs to this fence twice after strands had broken due to people standing on it. Clearly some people made no effort to avoid or rectify damage.
Repeat offers to finance and install a discrete crossing point were not taken up.
The final message also mentioned that the owners had sent  "many messages/emails to the caving association in Sheffield, with absolutely no response". This hadn't been mentioned in previous discussions and is both baffling on several levels and disappointing if true. I did point out that we had no idea these had been sent and that climbers and cavers had not discussed access in the dale to my knowledge.
Negotiations have been patient and polite, but persistent and in the end the owner complained about being pestered. So I don't intend to push the matter with them at least for the rest of this year. Maybe next year it'll be worth a call to see if anything has changed.

[SamT]

I'm intrigued by the caving reference.  There are only a couple of very minor, very rarely (if ever) visited caves down there.

[Bonjoy]

That's what I thought. I also though they were on the east/road side of the dale, I.e. irrelevant to the access on the west.

[SamT]

There is one cave on that side "Aragogs"  but it's never visited and only goes in a few meters.  (but is listed/referenced on caving websites).

[spidermonkey09]

Thanks Jon. Really disappointing from the NFU, I'd be interested to hear what their response is. Also a bit of a shame if whatever sheff caving organisation hasn't been passing on messages to the BMC, but I suppose it a) may not be true and B) messages to get stuck in spam filters etc.

[moose]

The advice from NFU might not be their "official" position - their farm policies are sometimes mediated by local agents, who visit policyholders to discuss cover / warranties / conditions etc.  It might just be one of them, playing it safe re potential liability but with no actual authority / specific expertise.

[kac]

Thanks for the effort Jon. That's a good point moose - I doubt on a national level climbing access is really on the NFU radar. Just looked on their website and noticed their is a local peak farming group that looks to have fairly recently been set up. Could be worth contacting them. It looks like they are keen to promote diversification and tourism so you would have though they would want to encourage outdoor activity in the park.

[Bonjoy]

Thank kac, will look that up.