[webbo]

Then the powers that be who endorse guiding companies need to sanction the ones who insist on climbing in wet conditions.

[mrjonathanr]

Forecast looks shite tomorrow, who fancies heading out and climbing some VD chimneys in big boots?

Webbo 

[webbo]

Forecast looks shite tomorrow, who fancies heading out and climbing some VD chimneys in big boots?

Webbo 

We could walk along Stanage and check everyone’s qualifications and report the fuckers. As I could be bothered.

[andy moles]

So would you be happy for the blokes building your new house to work in the rain or frost and accept how it might effect the building. Some profession’s are unfortunately are effected by the weather, if you are not prepared to accept the conditions it imposes. Do something different.

That's a crap analogy.

Anyway, I have done something different. It's much better being in North Wales, if it's raining you go to the coast or put on those big boots.

[webbo]

I agree it’s not the best but there are lots of jobs where you can’t work because of the weather. But if you believe it ok to destroy the medium that is the the foundation of of your profession( and I’m using profession with my tongue firmly in my cheek) Just carry on.

[andy moles]

Are you on the drink, like? Why the dig at my 'profession'?

Destroy the medium...get real. These few bits of crag I'm talking about have been shagged to death by groups of muddy booted children for generations, and the holds are still intact.

[webbo]

When was the last one of your profession was struck off.

[andy moles]

Profession:

a paid occupation, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification.

 I don't much care what it's called but

[danm]

Leave it Andy, Webbo is revelling in being a self righteous prick and let's be fair, he could make a profession of it.

[webbo]

Profession:

a paid occupation, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification.

 I don't much care what it's called but

So if you break the code of conduct of said profession. What happens then.

[webbo]

Leave it Andy, Webbo is revelling in being a self righteous prick and let's be fair, he could make a profession of it.

Nice one danm.

[Will Hunt]

If the very small amount of traffic that wet climbing accounted for on bullet-hard grit easies did any damage I'd be all for calling out the practitioners. But it doesn't.

For a lot of people, protecting the rock or the Almscliff wall or whatever is really just a vehicle to join internet pile-ons, which these people very much enjoy. They get a warm feeling of superiority and schadenfreude. I'm sure it's the same sensation that was felt when putting someone in the stocks and pelting them with rotten vegetables.

[Teaboy]

Forecast looks shite tomorrow, who fancies heading out and climbing some VD chimneys in big boots?

No one which is just one of the reasons why this a solution looking for a problem. We may be at the thin end of a wedge but the thick end was 50 years ago when people were doing diffs in the rain and polishing up routes in nailed boots (ok 70 years ago!), now we go to a wall. Routes change all the time and by and large they remain climbable. Any examples of these changes being the result of climbing in the damp?

[haydn jones]

When was the last one of your profession was struck off.

I find it funny about how a conversation about inclusion in climbing at the lower grades this is the most elitest comment I've seen on the thread.

[Kingy]

Can't think of any examples of routes.

Reminds me of a recent Enormocast where Chris Kalous rails against the crag police imposing improntu bans on trad climbing in Indian Creek one day after it stopped raining. He was arguing that they were only climbing cracks and you couldn't break a crack cos its a void, not a hold.  Anyway, I've never been there so couldn't possible comment!

[andy moles]

Reminds me of a recent Enormocast where Chris Kalous rails against the crag police imposing improntu bans on trad climbing in Indian Creek one day after it stopped raining. He was arguing that they were only climbing cracks and you couldn't break a crack cos its a void, not a hold.  Anyway, I've never been there so couldn't possible comment!

I haven't heard it but I have been there and that sounds like a very questionable argument. Unless you have no issue with desert cracks getting wider and sandier with more flared pods even faster than they do anyway under normal climbing conditions. The Creek is not nearly as soft as a lot of desert rock (no one climbs in Zion the day after rain), but it's still much softer than the popular grit edges.

[jwi]

Reminds me of a recent Enormocast where Chris Kalous rails against the crag police imposing improntu bans on trad climbing in Indian Creek one day after it stopped raining. He was arguing that they were only climbing cracks and you couldn't break a crack cos its a void, not a hold.  Anyway, I've never been there so couldn't possible comment!

I haven't heard it but I have been there and that sounds like a very questionable argument. Unless you have no issue with desert cracks getting wider and sandier with more flared pods even faster than they do anyway under normal climbing conditions. The Creek is not nearly as soft as a lot of desert rock (no one climbs in Zion the day after rain), but it's still much softer than the popular grit edges.

I have climbed quite a lot in Indian Creek. Anyone who climbs the day after rain is suicidal. A lot of people do, and mostly survive because they do not fall (the climber is the first barrier). With my own eyes I have witnessed big stable features in decent rock break from body weight loaded on cams on the day after rain. According to a mate who lived in the creek for ten years it is impossible to guess which features are structurally undermined after rain.

Same goes for Wadi Rum. The day before we arrived a group of three french climbers broke their belay on wet rock, killing all three members of the team.

In Elbsandsteingebrige it is actually illegal to climb on wet rock (the climbing is in a state park).

I would not comment on harder types of sandstone than these as I have no experience.

[Moo]

I guess the outdoor industry needs to take a look at itself and how it’s conducting business. If you’re allowing damage by virtue of the way you operate then something needs to change in my opinion.

[abarro81]

I guess the outdoor industryevery industry I can possibly think of needs to take a look at itself and how it’s conducting business. If you’re allowing damage by virtue of the way you operate then something needs to change in my opinion.

Fixed that for you. And I work in renewables.

[Paul B]

Reminds me of a recent Enormocast where Chris Kalous rails against the crag police imposing improntu bans on trad climbing in Indian Creek one day after it stopped raining.

I remember it being more a reaction to how people were going about raising these issues? From memory it sounded rather hostile.

[andy moles]

I guess the outdoor industry needs to take a look at itself and how it’s conducting business. If you’re allowing damage by virtue of the way you operate then something needs to change in my opinion.

It's easy to say that, but if you have any suggestions that don't involve significant financial loss and instability in an already pretty unstable 'industry' , as well as to the customer if they've travelled etc, I'd listen.

I actually think about this quite a lot, not because of wet grit, which is a peripheral issue for me because I rarely work in the Peak any more, but because of bad weather affecting activities in general. I don't really want to be out in the mountains in sideways rain all day, and it's not what people who have paid want either. If there's wiggle room to do something different or come to a mutually agreeable rearrangement with a client, I'll usually find it. Sometimes there just isn't.

As for allowing damage by the way you operate...well, as Barrows says, cast the first stone.

[andy moles]

Afterthought: to be fair, I can't speak for the conscientiousness of everyone, and I'm sure some providers could do better.

[Kingy]

Reminds me of a recent Enormocast where Chris Kalous rails against the crag police imposing improntu bans on trad climbing in Indian Creek one day after it stopped raining.

I remember it being more a reaction to how people were going about raising these issues? From memory it sounded rather hostile.

Yes, Chris definitely was railing against something, in one of his rants where he was joking about avoiding being cancelled. Yeah, if memory serves he was unhappy about how how other climbers were issuing bans on climbing when there hadn't really been much rain the previous day, ie. how much was too much to merit avoiding going climbing? Was a light sprinkling OK? Might have been the Runout podcast, can't remember.