[jshaw]

I was up at Blackstone Edge last night and found a boulder that rocked quite dramatically. There are multiple established roof climbs that when done, cause the boulder to rock. If it were to fall when someone was climbing it the person would almost certainly be pinned. The boulder is absolutely huge, maybe 20 tonnes.

Given it's not a particularly popular venue, I suspect it just hasn't been noticed before but I want to make people aware of it before trying the boulder. Other than just posting here and the other site, what would you do?

This is the boulder:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/blackstone_edge-1356/the_ladys_not_for_gurning-259457#photos

[Bonjoy]

I suppose the options would be to warn people not to climb it somehow, prop the block somehow, or move it so it's no longer unstable. Hard to say whi h option is best without seeing it in person etc.

[SA Chris]

Got any photos showing the rest of the boulder?

[jshaw]

Thanks, propping might be an option. Unfortunately I don't have any better pictures.

[jshaw]

This view might offer a better look at the boulder. It that whole cap block that rocks.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/blackstone_edge-1356/stans_a_gurner-464264#photos

[mrjonathanr]

Stick a sign in the ground saying ‘danger unstable boulder ‘? Looks like that would be terminal if it toppled over.

[tomtom]

Wow? That block has always been super solid!

I’ll post this up on the Lancs Facebook page and see what anyone says... folk there will know more.

(Edit - there are a good few examples of large blocks/whole boulders that wobble safely - but this probably needs looking at..)

[jshaw]

Wow? That block has always been super solid!

I’ll post this up on the Lancs Facebook page and see what anyone says... folk there will know more.

(Edit - there are a good few examples of large blocks/whole boulders that wobble safely - but this probably needs looking at..)

Thanks, I'm not in that group. Yeh, I know of others that wobble but like mrJon says, given the nature of the climbs through it and the potential direction of movement, it would be horrendous if it did go. It really freaked me out.

[Bonjoy]

(Edit - there are a good few examples of large blocks/whole boulders that wobble safely - but this probably needs looking at..)

This.
It wouldn't be good if we 'fixed' a known rocking stone.

[r-man]

Don't think it's a known rocking stone - I've never come across any mention of that on the web, nor seen anyone except climbers near it.

It's flipping massive, I'm amazed if it's moving. Haven't climbed on it for over a year though.

You can see it here from about 2.11. It goes back quite far.



Perhaps worth checking whether it is actually a danger, or whether it can only wobble so far before it is blocked by other rocks.

If it is dangerous, I can't imagine anyone would have a problem with it being made safe, though no idea how that would be done.

[jshaw]

I'm amazed if it's moving.

Wish I'd taken a video now. It gave a small but noticeable wobble when climbing (alarming given it's size) but a controlled jump made it rock by around 4-5 cm. Needless to say I didn't do that again... You could see lichen removal on the back where it had been moving. There isn't really anything to block it from hitting the floor if it does go. Hence my post. I'm not mad, honest guv 

[dunnyg]

If it goes, then there would be new problems the other side... We just need some larger ukb members to jump on it as a team! It is a big block to wobble! I had vague intentions of getting on TLNFG, but might leave it for a bit, thanks for the heads up!

[SA Chris]

4 folk standing on it would be enough to know if it's going to go, landing zone prepared to jump clear onto if it does go. Would a heavyweight causing it to rock forward increase the grade?

[georgenorth]

If it is dangerous, I can't imagine anyone would have a problem with it being made safe, though no idea how that would be done.

Probably not easily! The two options I can see would be to pin it with rock anchors, or fill in the space  beneath the roof with masonry (dentition). Neither option seems practical for cost and impact reasons! Given the size of the block, I’d say it needs to be stabilised properly, or not at all.

[tomtom]

Yeah - it’s not straightforward. For wider context - the blocks are not in a deserted quarry but about 10-20 m from the pennine way so it’s quite a busy spot - especially at the weekend. It’s also 30 min walk in so both conspicuous and logistically awkward. I expect you’d need some permission to start propping stuff up. It’s also super exposed -‘gets the full force of the westerlies so any cementing up might not last long anyway...

[Paul B]

Having done some work work in the area (pretty much all of the surrounding reservoirs), you can't go far before being in a SSSI and/or an SPA.

[Bonjoy]

If all else is unfeasible and the block is an actual risk to people, there is the option of dumping the problem on someone else if it looks like climbers will get into trouble attempting to do something. If you inform the landowner they will probably be legally bound to address in one way or another. Obviously their easiest/cheapest option, at least in the short term, will be to ban at least part of the crag. If I was a local I'd be sure there was no other reasonable option available before going down this road, but would consider it in the end.

[tomtom]

Good post Bonjoy.

Though the whole area is potentially dangerous (as in its part of a 2km long edge with some faces up to 15m high (most boulders) so rockfall is always a potential issue etc.

I think it’s Possibly on Yorkshire Water land...

[Will Hunt]

I've never been to the crag, so not sure exactly where the boulder is, but I don't think it's on Yorkshire Water land. Much of the moor around there is YW land, but only to the east of the Metropolitan District and CP Boundary line that you can see marked on the OS map (you can get the OS map up in Bing Maps). It looks like the boulders are to the west of that line. So it might belong to United Utilities/Manc Council/Lord Whatsisface.

[Paul B]

The majority of it is common land with YWS being one of the commoners (from my experience). I don't think UU actually own much other than their reservoirs and it'd be incorrect to assume they own those in their entirety. This was a massive PITA.

The Lord of the Manor of Rochdale I think owns very specific areas (less of a PITA).

[Will Hunt]

Land ownership isn't really my area of expertise, so maybe the company does have some commoner's rights up there. I don't think they're the landowner though. That's just based on the relevant overlay on the company GIS - which isn't perfect. It does seem strange that we would own land in a neighbour's watershed though. The map I can see shows the ownership extending as far as the county boundary, which fits with the notion that the land will have once belonged to the local authority (the Halifax Corporation or some such).

In any case, I'd have thought you'd only want to get the landowner involved after a second opinion has been sought about the stability of the boulder. If I owned some moorland and some climbers came to me and said "there's a big fuck off boulder that people like to swing about on on your land and it's about to fall on them and squash them flat", then my first instinct would be to erect a fence around said boulder and ask people to never climb on it ever again.

Maybe call that Anstey's Cove bloke up. He's got some really strong spoons that are good for propping up lumps of stone.