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Thread split: Star quality (Read 11563 times)

dunnyg

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#50 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 01:10:24 pm
The worst climbing on the vs start to great western is the shitty grovel right, under the roof. Back around.

teestub

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#51 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 01:25:40 pm
It’s OK dunnyg, Fiend has no choice but to talk down Great Western as it’s not ‘proper’ gritstone climbing as it has holds on it.

Fiend, odd that you prefer OH Grooves and DW, which are both essentially one move climbs, and OH Grooves has a step off onto a big ledge you have to avoid.

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#52 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 01:29:10 pm
I think this is going much too far into UKC territory now, possibly time to lock and log :)

Will Hunt

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#53 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 01:30:14 pm
It’s OK dunnyg, Fiend has no choice but to talk down Great Western as it’s not ‘proper’ gritstone climbing as it has holds on it.

Fiend, odd that you prefer OH Grooves and DW, which are both essentially one move climbs, and OH Grooves has a step off onto a big ledge you have to avoid.

I think you'd struggle to find an HVS leader who said any of the three Cliff HVSs were one move wonders.

teestub

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#54 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 01:53:29 pm
I think this is going much too far into UKC territory now, possibly time to lock and log :)

Apologies for dragging this from the majesty of the Ben to the cow poo of the Yorkshire Wart!


cheque

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#55 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 01:56:16 pm
Everybody’s acting like four-star system is rare but that’s what Rockfax use (with “Top50” as the four-star equivalent) and they’re the most popular guides for a hell of a lot of places. The more levels you have the worse the no-star routes are implied to be of course and I don’t think that symbol system they use or the hair-trigger application of the word “grovel” helps spread traffic out either.

Conversely the problem with the idealistic “national” starring system is that the people who champion it are usually the sort of picky fuckers who can always come up with a reason why any route isn’t good enough to deserve the top status or contrarians so revolted by the idea of any unanimous opinion that they’ll disagree with it in principle. ;)

Whatever system’s used there need to be a lot of whatever the top tier of rating is as if there are only a few of them people will just be disappointed as Grimer says or start pointless bickering about  subjective differences in enjoyment as seen above.

Personally I reckon a three-tier system like the Vertebrate Peak Bouldering guide (no star, star or bold star) is the best resolution. More and you’re splitting hairs and implying good routes aren’t worth bothering with, fewer and you’re insulting the reader with a “there’s only two types of climb...” style reductionism.

SA Chris

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#56 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 02:20:10 pm
How many "best route in the world" s are there anyway?

Coops_13

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#57 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 02:38:54 pm
How many "best route in the world" s are there anyway?
One. Airwolf




I thought this was a bouldering site...

Sasquatch

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#58 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 03:49:37 pm
How many "best route in the world" s are there anyway?
One. Airwolf




I thought this was a bouldering site...

Nah.  It's all hype and no substance.  one move wonder

JamieG

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#59 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 04:10:36 pm
I like the idea of an extra rank on the star system but in the other direction. A turd :shit: for local enthusiasts only tottering choss pile.

Things like Den Lane could get a turd for the whole crag. Keep it nice and quiet for me.  ;D

Fiend

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#60 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 07:09:33 pm
I like the idea of an extra rank on the star system but in the other direction. A turd :shit: for l ocal enthusiasts only tottering choss pile ancashire.
:blink:

Fultonius

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#61 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 19, 2021, 08:31:32 pm
Yep, it's no Aonach Eagach. I've not done it though, so can't comment, maybe it's spectacular terrain at such an easy grade.

It's an ok descent route on a bad day # elitist.

Thing is, it's a good route, but terrible when conditions are avalanchey (approch on no.5) but often recommended as just such!

grimer

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#62 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 20, 2021, 11:21:59 am
Whatever route gets **** you'll nearly always find someone who is disappointed in it. The route can never live up to the expectation - well, not never, but it's hard.

One of my fave routes on Gogarth is Kalahari. Two stars. Every one I've ever spoken to about it loved it.

andy moles

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#63 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 20, 2021, 02:41:11 pm
Personally I reckon a three-tier system like the Vertebrate Peak Bouldering guide (no star, star or bold star) is the best resolution. More and you’re splitting hairs and implying good routes aren’t worth bothering with, fewer and you’re insulting the reader with a “there’s only two types of climb...” style reductionism.

Yeah, I think this is spot on.

Possibly with something to denote routes that are truly, incontestably bad, though I'd rather those be left out completely so I can carry around a smaller book.

Wood FT

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#64 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 20, 2021, 04:45:22 pm
Whatever route gets **** you'll nearly always find someone who is disappointed in it. The route can never live up to the expectation - well, not never, but it's hard.

One of my fave routes on Gogarth is Kalahari. Two stars. Every one I've ever spoken to about it loved it.

Agreed, loved that route. I did with Barrows of all people...

remus

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#65 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 20, 2021, 06:38:57 pm
Whatever route gets **** you'll nearly always find someone who is disappointed in it. The route can never live up to the expectation - well, not never, but it's hard.

It seems like the climbing version of the "that film is amazing, you'll really enjoy it" problem where if you go in thinking it's gonna be the best film you've ever seen then it leaves a lot of room for disappointment. For me, the best films (and climbs) are almost all ones where the quality took me by surprise and my expectations were exceeded. I don't think it's necessarily a reflection on people/psychology/whatever, I think there's just a lot that goes in to having an enjoyable experience on a climb and even the best climbs are not gonna push the buttons for a lot of people.

SA Chris

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#66 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 22, 2021, 08:55:21 am
I think this is going much too far into UKC territory now, possibly time to lock and log :)

Apologies for dragging this from the majesty of the Ben to the cow poo of the Yorkshire Wart!

That wasn't a specific comment, just a general observation!

Pantontino

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#67 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 23, 2021, 03:20:18 pm
I favour the three star system - it allows for more nuance in the quality rating, and even then i regularly have arguments with the NWB feedback group about problems that sit in that awkward bit in between the ratings. Aping the 7 + 8s star system doesn't appeal to me, it just seem a bit flat.

I did use a 4 star system in the 2010 North Wales Winter Climbing guide and I think it worked okay.

It was suggested to me that I had been over generous with the stars in the 2017 NWB guide, and I have dialled it back a bit in the 3rd edition. However, it is true that the UKC logbook entries are almost always more generous than the guide. I think it's people getting a bit misty eyed when they are buzzing after an ascent. This applies even more with 'first ascentitus' - you might have had a three star experience climbing a particular line, doesn't mean it is objectively a three star line.

Bonjoy

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#68 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 23, 2021, 04:08:25 pm
That's the best thing about doing FAs, you can get a four star experience even if the scale only goes up to three.

Fultonius

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#69 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 23, 2021, 08:39:01 pm
That's the best thing about doing FAs, you can get a four star experience even if the scale only goes up to three.
[/quote

I reckon I've over-starred every new route I've done, except for the last. So hard to distil the experience and extract the objective quality.

I've even had a 2* experience on  :shit: route. (wrote it up as such though).

I still reckon that crux-avoiding variation pitch I did, high on a remote face, where no-one may ever go again, was objectively the best quality bit of climbing I've ever done.....or was it?...?!?

GazM

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#70 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 24, 2021, 11:37:26 am
For Bonjoy's reason and Pantonino's described 'first ascentititus' I never give stars to a new problem or route I've done. I think it should be the job of repeaters to ascribe stars to things, which would ideally build a consensus over time and miss out the FAers biased relationship with the thing. To be honest I assumed that was the norm.

Bonjoy

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#71 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 24, 2021, 11:48:19 am
For Bonjoy's reason and Pantonino's described 'first ascentititus' I never give stars to a new problem or route I've done. I think it should be the job of repeaters to ascribe stars to things, which would ideally build a consensus over time and miss out the FAers biased relationship with the thing. To be honest I assumed that was the norm.
I aim for very conservative starring when I report stuff on UKB (the sole place I write stuff up). One star really good, two for exceptional, most stuff gets none. The prob with giving no stars at all is that you give no pointers to potential repeaters, who might not appreciate walking in for an hour to find all the unstarred probs are actually no star probs. Some hint at what is worth making an effort for and what is just circuit filler is quite important I think. I also think stars are more straightforward and fungible than indicating quality via random hyperbole.

GazM

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#72 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 24, 2021, 12:03:09 pm
I aim for very conservative starring when I report stuff on UKB (the sole place I write stuff up). One star really good, two for exceptional, most stuff gets none. The prob with giving no stars at all is that you give no pointers to potential repeaters, who might not appreciate walking in for an hour to find all the unstarred probs are actually no star probs. Some hint at what is worth making an effort for and what is just circuit filler is quite important I think. I also think stars are more straightforward and fungible than indicating quality via random hyperbole.

True enough, I just go on the assumption that no-one will ever go to most of my stuff anyway!
In seriousness though, I'm perhaps a bit old school in thinking that a good photo or video should be enough to wet people's appetite and they can then decide for themselves.

Bonjoy

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#73 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 24, 2021, 12:08:37 pm
 :lol:

Yeah, a good photo or vid is the best way to show the quality. Let the prob speak for itself. My vids and photo tend to be pretty shoddy unfortunately.

GazM

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#74 Re: Thread split: Star quality
March 24, 2021, 12:16:26 pm
Ha! Yeah, I thought exactly the same about mine as I posted that. The sole reason I joined Instagram was to post low quality videos of my esoterica in a bid to get locals interested.

 

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