[tomtom]

Great write up.

I’ve core feet, Stronghold, Peewee and Crushers on mine and I’d agree with you on all of these. 👍

[remus]

Ace write up bradders, good work!

I've just had my first proper session on the taylormade pockets and Im well impressed so far. It seems like pockets are a hard shape to get right but these are a really nice profile. As bradders said they've got a pretty finely textured finish which I think works well in this case: they've got a big radius on the edge that would be too juggy if it was resin but makes them feel nicely challenging on a 45 (for my weak fingers anyway).

They are double sided which is a cool feature. One orientation is a fairly positive 2 fingers and the other way up is a slopier 3 fingers.

[User deactivated.]

Bradders and other experienced board users, I have a few questions to try and get the most value out of my board training if you'd be so kind to help.

Are you using 2 sets of footholds on your board such that you can do a problem on the easy feet then work towards doing it on the hard feet. If so do you set them with a regular repeating spacing?

Do you ever set feet follow hands and find it has any strength training value? I think it can sometimes make more realistic movement but my primary concern is getting strong.

Do you have a preference for setting either: (a) basic problems that are hard because the holds are bad, (b) problems that are hard because the movement is hard, or a mix of both?

How many moves do you tend to aim for when creating problems where the intention is getting stronger?

Edit: sorry, I now realise most of this has strayed off topic.

[tomtom]

All of the above apart from hands follow feet.

[Bradders]

I have three foothold options on my 45 atm;

1. Core 20mm feet, allows me to use some very small holds, and also good for doing ancap style training on easier problems.
2. Core "board" feet, in practice these are about 10mm and a bit slopey/uneven. Can make warm ups on the 20mm feet into projects that take a few sessions.
3. Feet on specified plastic holds

I don't like / can't really do feet follow as my board is only 2.5m or so high, I don't have a kicker, and I don't like using the wood holds for feet.

Given it's how the School Room 50 is set up though I think it's safe to say feet follow is a good way of doing it if you have the height!

I have my footholds in nice neat rows / columns atm but tbh am thinking of changing that, not sure if having them a bit more random might be better....?

On problem setting, variety is the spice of life! Although again, due to the height of the board it tends more towards the bad holds side of things versus something like the Kilter board which is obviously more big moves etc. In an ideal world you'd train on both 

[Probes]

Bradders, just a few comments regarding your comments on wood types with reference to you calling my holds not very good quality! First time in 12 years my holds and the Ash I use, has been referred to as such.
There are currently 4 main types used out there, Tulipwood, Utile, Ash and Oak. None of which are very suitable for use on a board outside. I certainly don't advertise them for use outside.
All 4 are pretty standard and are usually shipped into the country by a couple of main importers, so their quality doesn't vary throughout the country.
Tulipwood, softest wood of the 4, cheapest to buy, easy to work and get good shapes, finish becomes polished easy, least hardwearing.
Utile and Ash, similar hardness, similar price, Utile being the easier to work, Ash being slightly harder wearing.
Oak, hardest of all, expensive, difficult to work, great finish, easily absorbs moisture and if so liable to split, if kept well will out last the rest no probs.
Horses for courses pay for what you get.
My ash is the ash I've used on boards, holds & rungs since the start. Some fingerboards & campus boards have been in commercial use for 10 years and still going strong. So may be you have an off batch of ash, no idea what an off ash would be but not counting it out. Or having the holds on a board outside had lead to the wood degrading fast, no surprise there.

[mrjonathanr]

Do you use beech? I have a few holds in that- really nice. (Have some of yours and Rick's too - all good).

[Duma]

Nice write up bradders, not that I've much space left to make use of any more holds on my board!

I've only bought holds from rginns on here (strongholds) and core, so can't really give a fair comparison with other stuff, but couple of things to add.

My board is 30 degrees which is fairly unusual i think - most people seem to go steeper for height constraints and more power focus, or shallower as traversing/easier stuff - Anyway, Richard at Strongholds was brilliant tweaking incut angles to suit the 30 degree, and I love all the stuff I've got from him. Mine are nearly all oak - the texture on these is glorious and are holding up well on an outdoor board so far - though its noticeable that if I forget to brush off holds after a session they do seem to absorb more moisture than the bits of mahogany from old furniture that I've got from mates boards.
And another vote for the core board feet I use these as my "medium" feet at 30 degrees - although if you have them the good way up on a 30 they can bite through your shoes pretty quick - I've got an otherwise fairly new pair of shoes with a hole specifically at the point some of the better footholds edges bite. I've also got these from core as the "easy" set of feet and like them: https://coreclimbing.co.uk/buy-holds/shop-by-type/footholds/core-screw-ons_1/
The "hard" feet are little wood discs that came off a mates board - these are great for me but would be unusable on anything significantly steeper I think

Liam - I have my feet semi regularly spaced, but each set is sparing enough that theres not a great deal of choice for each move if restricting yourself to one set.
I don't do feet follow, though I do make an effort to set moves that might require high feet, though this isn't a weakness for me so it's not a priority. If the board was steeper I probably would.
re small holds vs difficult movement - both as much as possible, but the biggest advantage is to get others to set problems, I invariably find these more challenging than my own for "the grade", and feels much better for finding and working weaknesses
I don't worry about how many moves - my problems are generally 3-5 moves, on a board thats 3.2m "long"

[M1V0]

Bradders and other experienced board users, I have a few questions to try and get the most value out of my board training if you'd be so kind to help.

Are you using 2 sets of footholds on your board such that you can do a problem on the easy feet then work towards doing it on the hard feet. If so do you set them with a regular repeating spacing?

Do you ever set feet follow hands and find it has any strength training value? I think it can sometimes make more realistic movement but my primary concern is getting strong.

Do you have a preference for setting either: (a) basic problems that are hard because the holds are bad, (b) problems that are hard because the movement is hard, or a mix of both?

How many moves do you tend to aim for when creating problems where the intention is getting stronger?

Edit: sorry, I now realise most of this has strayed off topic.

I have three foothold sets. 20mm flats, 15mm (or 10mm) and some domes. Hardly use the 20s anymore, the 15s are the workhorses of the board (they’re round oak ‘coins’ courtesy of Probes) and the domes are desperate. I set using the 15mms and then swapping to the domes bumps the grade by at least what feels a whole number! Foot spacing is regular and mirrored, as the board is mirrored, but differently spaced for the three sets.

Never done feet follow hands, don’t want to ruin the handholds. If you’re after getting strong, then I wouldn’t bother. Climb outside/gym for realistic movement. Tiny screw-one for feet to engage core and get strong.

I’m very limited on space 3m x 1m so a lot of my stuff is hard because the holds are ratty and average about four/five moves or bigger moves I average about three moves to the top hold. As I am constrained on width, the focus for me is catching holds, keeping feet and maintaining tension where I can.

When it comes to setting stuff, I tend to set what feels hard for me usually centred around either an idea of a move or a particular hold or two I haven’t set with recently. Although over the last few months I’ve churned out my own holds so sometimes it is just setting to play with new holds!

[M1V0]

I have a mix of mostly Crusher holds, Strongholds, a couple of TaylorMade and ones I’ve made myself to fill in gaps or edges that aren’t so generous with the incut.

Or rather, crusher are quality and the small 15mm crimps are perfect for what I want. I really like the consistent incut on the 15,20 and 25mm crimps as they aren’t always easy to use.

Strongholds make up the main bulk and Rick has been really good in making up a custom set for me. Lots of crimps with a couple pockets and undercuts too.

TaylorMade I got a jug to use as a starting undercut and a couple of the pockets. I find I middle two crimp the duo pockets rather than drag them oddly.

[Bradders]

Bradders, just a few comments regarding your comments on wood types with reference to you calling my holds not very good quality! First time in 12 years my holds and the Ash I use, has been referred to as such.
There are currently 4 main types used out there, Tulipwood, Utile, Ash and Oak. None of which are very suitable for use on a board outside. I certainly don't advertise them for use outside.
All 4 are pretty standard and are usually shipped into the country by a couple of main importers, so their quality doesn't vary throughout the country.
Tulipwood, softest wood of the 4, cheapest to buy, easy to work and get good shapes, finish becomes polished easy, least hardwearing.
Utile and Ash, similar hardness, similar price, Utile being the easier to work, Ash being slightly harder wearing.
Oak, hardest of all, expensive, difficult to work, great finish, easily absorbs moisture and if so liable to split, if kept well will out last the rest no probs.
Horses for courses pay for what you get.
My ash is the ash I've used on boards, holds & rungs since the start. Some fingerboards & campus boards have been in commercial use for 10 years and still going strong. So may be you have an off batch of ash, no idea what an off ash would be but not counting it out. Or having the holds on a board outside had lead to the wood degrading fast, no surprise there.

Hi Probes, sorry I tried to be as fair and honest as I could be - and I'm not saying they're shit!! I very much appreciate that it's much easier to be a critic. As I said, the pinches are my favourites and climb really well, whilst all of them do have a nice comfortable profile. It's just personal preference really that I'd rather not to be able to thumb cheat, and like a sharper incut. And yeah, holds from other manufacturers maybe look nicer but they're all quite a lot more expensive so it's up to you what you'd like, I just wanted to give my thoughts and people can decide for themselves.

As an example, you'll notice I've not mentioned Lock Holds, and that's because I contacted them for pricing and couldn't believe how expensive they were! But some people won't mind paying minimum £10 for one crimp I guess

On wood types, I should clarify firstly that I've had one previous board which was outside, and my current two which are in a shed. I have some issues with condensation forming on the holds in the shed for some reason, which is a problem I haven't yet managed to solve. I've not heard anyone else really have this problem so not sure what's going on.

I'm no expert on wood types so I can only offer my observations with an n=1 caveat, and on that score holds in sapele, tulipwood and utile are faring significantly better than those in ash and oak. I think this is something to do with the closeness of the grain? As in tulipwood is very fine grained and therefore doesn't soak up moisture whereas oak has an open grain and gets soaked. Whilst ash is somewhere in the middle but seems to get greasy very easily. Just my experience!

I think outdoor boards are a pretty new thing really so there's bound to be a bit of a learning process going on in terms of understanding what works and what doesn't. I imagine you wouldn't advertise the holds as being suitable outdoors, but by the same token you also don't say they're not suitable so how is anyone to know?

[cheque]

hard to put my finger on it

Never a good thing to say about a hold.

[moose]

All of the above apart from hands follow feet.

Same. I really don't want to get my nice handholds covered in rubber. And, small-but-positive hands but dedicated, terrible smears for feet feels more appropriate to my aims than feel-follows-hands contortions. 

Re footholds, I have three "levels" of wooden footholds on my 40 deg board - bigs (maybe 4cm but very slippery, so not as easy as you might imagine); medium (1.5 cm deep disks), and domes (utterly hideous). I try to do each problem on my woodie on each foothold type (but usually give up with the domes).  Being able  to get double / triple value from each problem I set seems a pretty sensible tactic - using a different foothold set can require climbing the problem in a completely different way.

Currently, my favourite holds are my Rginns / Strongholds 2-finger pockets (ergo niceness), Beastmaker leaf crimps (lime-esque knobbly crimp/pinch nastiness), LX Grips / HWH crimp rails (positive and good targets for throwing to). 

Re Crusher, my woodie was originally all his work and many of those holds have now been supplanted with more aesthetic and expensive alternatives.  But Probes' small and medium crimps have been retained as I really like their uncompromising nature, and the triangular pinches and big blocky pinches are still there as nothing else really hits that spot.  Also, I have some undercuts he did for me - not on the website (supposedly a design for Jordan Buys when he was projecting Rainshadow) - which are great (actual undercuts, rather than just upsidedown crimps).  My holds have all remained in good condition - the Depot (Pudsey) had a set of Crusher holds that went a bit flaky but I suspect that was a rogue batch - I've seen that no where else (maybe jet-washing a factor?!). 

[Probes]

Bradders, to be honest I really fucking hate these unofficial reviews people put out on forums, especially when its related to products put out by small businesses/one man bands. In such a niche market as this, they can be really damaging very quickly, especially at the moment! People can fickle and shit spreads easily. Comments of perceived weighted opinion can go a long way and I can guarantee your reviews will be read by a lot of people on the look out for holds.

Criticism is great, I actively look for it when putting out a product, I know if I'm doing something wrong then. Criticism from a far based on the personal opinion of someone I don't know is worth nothing to me.

So with that in mind, my small crimps are perfect on a 45, I tested them to shit, you're just not strong enough  .
Silly goat make some rad holds, quirky, make you think, a change from pulling a perfectly rounded & finished edge, yawn.
HWH & BMs still the Dons of board holds (utter respect for Alex's sanding tenacity, and resilience to RSI).

All these new kids on the block is great, makes you up your game. Will be interesting to see where it's at in 12 months.
 

[GazM]

For what it's worth, I've had 2 sets of the Crusher 15mm crimps and 1 of the 10mms on my board which is outside in a shed in the Scottish Highlands for 2-3 years and had no issues with quality or conditions. I love them.

In fact my wooden holds are generally the reliable ones when humidity sky rockets and the resin holds go to crap, although the oak ones can be a bit exciting then too.

[spidermonkey09]

Criticism from a far based on the personal opinion of someone I don't know is worth nothing to me.

Isn't this just a review?

FWIW I've heard loads of good reviews of your holds, but all Nick has done has given his opinion- as he says its not like he's slagging them off!

Interesting point though about online reviews in general and their impact on businesses, particularly on small businesses. I think this is especially true for restaurants on tripadvisor or similar where people are very quick to leave negative reviews. I agree a bad word travels a lot quicker than a good one but what's the alternative? If we were to encourage the 'say nothing nice or say nothing at all' approach surely reading reviews becomes essentially pointless. Anyway, off topic, but rest assured nothing I have read here would stop me buying your holds!

[abarro81]

Bradders, to be honest I really fucking hate these unofficial reviews people put out on forums,

Conversely, I find these the only reviews worth reading because "official reviews" are usually pretty useless

[Paul B]

If anyone is reading this and has a set, I'd like to get my hands on the Malc Smith Trainingstone holds by Stonesmith.

😉

Ah FFS, does Malc say Hi too? Drop me a price Lincoln (so I can tell you where to shove it).

[daddy long legs]

Ace write up bradders, good work!

I've just had my first proper session on the taylormade pockets and Im well impressed so far. It seems like pockets are a hard shape to get right but these are a really nice profile. As bradders said they've got a pretty finely textured finish which I think works well in this case: they've got a big radius on the edge that would be too juggy if it was resin but makes them feel nicely challenging on a 45 (for my weak fingers anyway).

They are double sided which is a cool feature. One orientation is a fairly positive 2 fingers and the other way up is a slopier 3 fingers.

This sounds good! After some wood pockets for my 45......gonna start a new thread

[jwi]

Bradders, to be honest I really fucking hate these unofficial reviews people put out on forums,

Conversely, I find these the only reviews worth reading because "official reviews" are usually pretty useless

+1. Most reviews in climbing magazines or on larger climbing websites is useless fluff written by clueless people who are pathetically happy to have gotten their hands on free stuff.

The editor of a pretty big climbing site sent me a message asking for guidebooks (that I'd written/published) for free in exchange for a news article and a positive review. I didn't answer the message, of course. And I certainly did not ship any topos.

[Paul B]

It's worth noting that an artisanal hold supplier mentioned on this thread had someone complain about their symmetrical holds because the placement of the logo wasn't symmetrical, which firmly falls in the category of looking at Amazon reviews and noting the 1* review is because Royal Mail couldn't find their house etc. rather than being specifically an issue with the product.

[Nutty]

I think outdoor boards are a pretty new thing really so there's bound to be a bit of a learning process going on in terms of understanding what works and what doesn't. I imagine you wouldn't advertise the holds as being suitable outdoors, but by the same token you also don't say they're not suitable so how is anyone to know?

For wood holds, the wood database https://www.wood-database.com/wood-filter/ is useful for information on grain/texture and rot resistance. I've based all my wooden hold purchases for my outdoor board on this: avoiding ash, beech and tulipwood because of poor rot resistance and favouring oak and sapele.

I've crusher holds (in oak) on my outdoor 45 that have been up for 4 years now and are still in good condition: some very minor splitting visible on some pinches but nothing that affects the holds in use. The sapele HWH holds I have still look as new after a year up. I have some beech domes for feet, but I soaked those in wood preservative before putting them up.

[Will Hunt]

I have quite a few Crusher crimps on my 40 board. The 25mm ones are great for warming up on, and I really like pulling on the 20mm and 15mm ones. The fatty pinches work really nicely as well.
The shapes are pretty basic, so if you're the type of person who wants to take moody pictures of your holds and put them on Instagram then you probably won't like them. The price is good which makes them ideal for when you've a new board and you need to get some holds on it - you can fill in the gaps with some variety later. No complaints about the wood. They've been on there as long as the board has been up (five or six years now) and are as good as they were the day they were put on.

[Oldmanmatt]

I have Crusher holds, indoors but on a a commercially used board. In fact some are on their third board in seven or eight years (so long I can’t remember exactly) and until Covid shutdowns, were in daily use. They still look/feel new, so much so, I can’t remember which ones are recent purchases and which are originals.
The very small crimps, do have perpendicular side, so you can thumb them, a little. Whilst they’re small, they’re definitely usable and incut enough.

The medium and larger crimps have chamfered edges and are much harder to use a thumb on.

I think you’d have to ask Probes what the wood was on our order now, because it’s long since filed here, but I’m thinking Beechwood crimps and Oak pinches, iirc.

[SA Chris]

Probes will really fucking hate these unofficial reviews people put out on forums!