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Indoor-Outdoor Lockdown Grade Inflation. (Read 28161 times)

kelvin

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#grumpyoldtwat

#grumpytruthfuloldtwat

MischaHY

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Quote from: Fiend
I absolutely despair. I've completely underestimated the downfall of British climbing and am going to scour UKC for Hobson Moor and New Mills Torrs July 2020 first ascents of 7B variants to E1 5cs to try to recover some sanity.

Off topic but:

The funny thing is that there are several hard unclimbed trad lines to go down the Torrs which I'm amazed nobody has touched. I did a lot of swinging around on a shunt there a few years ago when I was still living locally and got pretty psyched, but then left the area before I got strong enough to do them.

For example there is one pin scar style crack feature right through the highest bit of the main wall which will take a load of small wires and is fully independent. I did the moves on a shunt and thought E6/7 depending on gear quality. Climbing felt around 7b/+ish at the time but it was a while ago and I didn't link it. 

Happy to send more details to anyone interested in having a look  :great: The access from the top is piss with all the trees so it's very straightforward to go have a swing around and check it out.

Bradders

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So you get the sort of Depot-dwelling scrote who actually unironically subscribes to Magnus Mitboe, kicked out of his favourite covid-incubating "indoor gym", trawls around some god forsaken choss heap that Puttrell once went for a post-steak-pie shit in on a trans-Pennine wander, gets unduly excited because now he can be his own route setter, manages to unearth a non-move wonder eliminate sit start to a 4+ that would make even r-man blush and question his morality, and then whops on 7A+ because it's a bit harder than the black circuit etc etc. Put it on UKC with at least 3 stars and a verbose name and and bask in glory that makes doing a comp wall problem seem mundane etc etc....

I now have a dilemma, as yesterday I did a couple of probably new but could easily have been done before problems at Eldwick, both eliminate, both easier than the pre-existing problem up that section of rock (albeit with a different start position), on slightly questionable in places rock.

BUT...they both climb well, the easier one doesn't feel eliminate at all, they're both very logical and I had a lot of fun doing them, plus they open up that wall for non-giants. And the rock is actually quite nice really.

SO...do I add them to UKC with 3 stars, verbose names and inflated grades?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMsej0FD6nv/?igshid=1ny4ulse43zvq

tomtom

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Yes. All with ‘tribute’ to Fiend names. :D

Fiend

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Well, it depends. Is the first one just unspeakably bad beta for a HS 4c jamming crack, where the crux is somehow avoiding touching the back of your hand to the other side of the rock??

Either way, yes, obviously.

Bradders

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Well, it depends. Is the first one just unspeakably bad beta for a HS 4c jamming crack, where the crux is somehow avoiding touching the back of your hand to the other side of the rock??

Either way, yes, obviously.

Yes, definitely. Not that you'd even need to jam as the arete is so positive  :lol:

SA Chris

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yes to 3*, yes to verbose name (as per TT, I recommend Walking in Gabba Wonderland), no to overinflated grade.

Will Hunt

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That actually looks like a reasonable climb. I take it the only rule is that the left wall isn't in? I forget how thin the crack is - is it difficult not to dab on the other side of the crack?

For a fairly crap crag it looks like a reasonable thing to add in to give visitors something to do. Obviously it's an abhorrent eliminate but most things there suffer some sort of contrivance (dropping off with no top out, eliminate rules on Footlocker, etc). How did you like Racing Raymond? I take it you didn't do Airedale Triads?

Bradders

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Yes no sidewall and move right into the finish of Albatross, rather than continuing up the crack via some extreme gardening. It actually climbs really well, and the full eliminate is even better, excellent moves on nice holds.

The crack is actually quite wide so never felt like you'd dab.

Enjoyed Racing Raymond. It's either extremely frustrating or delightful depending on whether you do it though!

Didn't try Airedale Triads. Thought Footlocker was good fun. And The Elevator looks class!

Just a shame Albatross is so unbelievably morpho. I mean I have a big span, so had thought it would be possible, but it seems you need to be tall as well.

Bradders

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Another Caley submission for the "why the fuck would you log that?" list;

Breakfast with a completely separate boulder...might as well log a version using the ground!
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/caley_crags-540/no_weetabix_for_breakfest-624898

mark s

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I moderate a lot of the crags around the roaches on ukc.
Any attempt to claim some eliminate is straight in the bin.
Even had someone trying to claim a sit-down start to 3 pocket slab. I will give one guess what happened to that.

There does seem an increase in over use of of chalk tick marks where it's not needed.
Maybe we should be highlighting on the posts more. Shame them.

Bonjoy

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There does seem to be an explosion of named trivial variant popping up on ukc in recent years. Just looking at Curbar - who knew there were 28 probs on the Trackside boulder, and 18 on the Gorilla Warfare face?
I don’t know if the solution to this is hoping for boulderers to grow out of logging ever more trivial variants, or moderator to develop a consistently strict edit/cull policy across the board. After all it’s not always obvious (sometimes it is!) if something is worthwhile or worthless from a description alone. Another alternative would be to relegate variants to a subfile within their ‘parent’ climbs accessible via dropdown. You could then view a crag with or without the clutter depending on whether you wanted to see the ‘bookworthy’ climbs, or whether you were looking to squeeze some extra mileage/challenge out of a local venue.

mr chaz

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How about this? For each crag we nominate and select the year or specific date considered to be it's 'peak' and take this as the cutoff for recorded development (could be past, present or future depending on crag). Thus, forever locking in that sweetspot where the best lines have been claimed, the obvious quality eliminates have been done and the lure of proud desperate LGPs, or fucking arse scrapey indoor inflated eliminate variations (depending on which end of the scale you operate), remains!

Any genuinely worthwhile new problems on established crags will only be hard about by Chinese whispers and rumours, reinstating the crag mystery and tales that have been lost with the social media generation/must record everything zombies. How to stop people filming them though..? Maybe armed crag wardens? Or attack drones?


BID

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I'm taking a long hard think about the problem I've found hidden off the path at Curbar top now...

To be fair if its not shit bonjoy has likely done it and its written in a small black notebook somewhere :D
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 10:48:22 am by BID »

Bonjoy

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How about this? For each crag we nominate and select the year or specific date considered to be it's 'peak' and take this as the cutoff for recorded development (could be past, present or future depending on crag). Thus, forever locking in that sweetspot where the best lines have been claimed, the obvious quality eliminates have been done and the lure of proud desperate LGPs, or fucking arse scrapey indoor inflated eliminate variations (depending on which end of the scale you operate), remains!

Any genuinely worthwhile new problems on established crags will only be hard about by Chinese whispers and rumours, reinstating the crag mystery and tales that have been lost with the social media generation/must record everything zombies. How to stop people filming them though..? Maybe armed crag wardens? Or attack drones?
Pretending this isn't tongue in cheek for a moment, that's a truly awful idea for lots of reasons. A quick scan through recent records would show that among the dross some of the best problems on many crags are among the most recent, even at very mature crags.

mr chaz

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Ah but therein lies the beauty and wonder of a place, like the unheard symphony, the unpicked gems. Entirely tongue in cheek, of course  :P

Fiend

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How about this? For each crag we nominate and select the year or specific date considered to be it's 'peak' and take this as the cutoff for recorded development (could be past, present or future depending on crag). Thus, forever locking in that sweetspot where the best lines have been claimed, the obvious quality eliminates have been done and the lure of proud desperate LGPs, or fucking arse scrapey indoor inflated eliminate variations (depending on which end of the scale you operate), remains!

Any genuinely worthwhile new problems on established crags will only be hard about by Chinese whispers and rumours, reinstating the crag mystery and tales that have been lost with the social media generation/must record everything zombies. How to stop people filming them though..? Maybe armed crag wardens? Or attack drones?
Pretending this isn't tongue in cheek for a moment, that's a truly awful idea for the main reason that it's going to stop the otherwise inexorable Bonjoy new-routing / retro-claiming machine in it's tracks.
  :-\

OTOH attack drones for whoever claimed a sit start to Three Pocket Slab is entirely justifiable.

Bradders

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Just looking at Curbar - who knew there were 28 probs on the Trackside boulder, and 18 on the Gorilla Warfare face?

In fairness some of those aren't so recent; this there and back bollox dates from 1999!

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/curbar_edge-21/viet_kong-186596

I am in two minds on it all though, particularly as I'd quite like to get the back of the Calf at Ilkley properly documented.

Will Hunt

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When it comes to eliminates venues like the Calf or Pisa Wall I don't see any harm in letting people go crazy. So long as each one is unique then it's just more stuff to play on.

deacon

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Come on, UKC logbooks are perfect for documenting daft link ups, eliminates and stuff.
Keep them out of the guidebooks and fuck giving them their own name but having them on the database is cool.


Footwork

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Just looking at Curbar - who knew there were 28 probs on the Trackside boulder, and 18 on the Gorilla Warfare face?

In fairness some of those aren't so recent; this there and back bollox dates from 1999!

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/curbar_edge-21/viet_kong-186596

I am in two minds on it all though, particularly as I'd quite like to get the back of the Calf at Ilkley properly documented.

Send us the pdf topo please once you're finished, or laminated card in the post.

I'm the ukc moderator for Caley and saw recently someone logging a new problem, which starts half way along an existing problem. I will to a serious cull soon. People will just need to suck it up that they can't log half a problem in their shiny logbook. 

dunnyg

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Back of the calf is documented in the ACD Bible, non?

Will Hunt

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Back of the calf is documented in the ACD Bible, non?

Copies of which are about as common as a clean spoon in your cutlery drawer.

Bradders

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Back of the calf is documented in the ACD Bible, non?

For the privileged few who own a copy sure. It's pretty outdated though, holds have changed etc.

I'll get on it.

RobK

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Back of the calf is documented in the ACD Bible, non?

For the privileged few who own a copy sure. It's pretty outdated though, holds have changed etc.

I'll get on it.

Don't do it! Was hoping to sell mine in 30 years or so to fund my retirement.

 

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