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Physical augmentation, sporting performance and the body beautiful (Read 10196 times)

Loos3-tools

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I’d expect nothing less

Loos3-tools

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It is an interesting thing though, dealing with change and the ageing process. I wrote a bit on it a while ago, exploring the relationship between consciousness, time, space and the sense of self. I won't bore you with that. It is sort of summumed up in this poem I wrote when thinking about Simon throwing himself against the rocks on his quest to climb the oak.

Tree of Life

Ascetic practice
Walking meditation
The tree of life
Sublimation reincarnation

Tiger style
Marathon monk
36th Chamber
Blind date not drunk

Almost esoteric
Immortal quest
Stoic living
In existential unrest

Oldmanmatt

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It is an interesting thing though, dealing with change and the ageing process. I wrote a bit on it a while ago, exploring the relationship between consciousness, time, space and the sense of self. I won't bore you with that. It is sort of summumed up in this poem I wrote when thinking about Simon throwing himself against the rocks on his quest to climb the oak.

Tree of Life

Ascetic practice
Walking meditation
The tree of life
Sublimation reincarnation

Tiger style
Marathon monk
36th Chamber
Blind date not drunk

Almost esoteric
Immortal quest
Stoic living
In existential unrest

Ah.

Like this, then:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMAFWNQnSKJ/?igshid=1p0pz9ctw8aa1

abarro81

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It is an interesting thing though, dealing with change and the ageing process.
I agree, although

exploring the relationship between consciousness, time, space and the sense of self.
I think I find it interesting in a different way to you, for better or worse

Loos3-tools

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I can post it, quite short but to the point. You may enjoy it? 👍🏻

Loos3-tools

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Found it!

Altered states of consciousness and climbing life. pt 1


'zen-ego annihilation' is it all it's cracked up to be?

at the junction between time and space we experience 'self' consciousness. the past, the future, memories, dreams and desires fuse together in the present space to inform who we are or who we 'feel' to be. this provides the building blocks for our current conscious and unconscious experiences as well as the scaffolding for our future selves and the potential development of a meaningful life. the space we occupy both physically and psychically, internally and externally is the environment from which information is gathered and meaning is made. the cluttered mind, the busy life, hoarding wealth, knowledge, belongings, represent part of this striving for meaning. goals and aspirations, lists of what we've 'gotten' or hope to 'get' defines who we are and what we may become. 
This search and striving for meaning [or lack of] may be considered in terms of mans tendency towards avoiding the anxiety of existence. The paradox being the very act of the search or having the goal provides the distraction. Heidegger's 'das-man' or 'you' base state is to engage in this behaviour which superficially may seem to transcend the normal but in reality it is an [often rewarding] act of seeking comfort in compliance and conformity. 
You get a hobby
you aspire to be 'better'
you share this with others
you get a training program
you learn how to use instagram
you aspire to be different 
you are human and become [or desire to become] integrated into a society, a community, a friendship group, a shared culture and everything feels well. This is the state of consciousness of everyday being. Of course this process of being can be disturbed in so many ways, represented by the experience of 'not getting what we want'. or otherwise put, my external reality does not match up to the desired state represented internally or vis-versa. dis-equilibrium. i do not feel myself, i am in bits, i want to feel whole again, are all common statement representing this experience. so what opportunities does our mind posses for change and why would we seek them. Altered states of consciousness or experiences which exist outside or or act as interruptions to being 'you'. trance, meditative states, flow, drug induced, psychedelic, mystical and religious experience, boredom, depression, dissociation, arousal, fear and numbness, the reduction of the self and dissolution of the ego, the 'power of now' vs the terrifying timelessness of psychosis or schizophrenia, fragmented, lost unable to be gathered up, isolated, distant and disintegrated. How does this potential for 'zen-ego annihilation' relate to you and your climbing life? it does in every way. 


SA Chris

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Loos3-tools

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I don't know what that means?

Ah googled it, gotcha

Anti

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All that said if a climber chooses to have hooks grafted onto their hands or an extra limb grafted onto their forehead or even dose up on performance enhancing drugs get the edge for the send then go for it.

I like how the use of performance enhancing drugs is considered comparable here. My slightly controversial view is that I'd be amazed if some of the top climbers aren't already using them, on the basis that climbing is completely unregulated out of competition, whilst simultaneously being dependent on strength/fitness/etc. We know people do it in other sports. Hey, I've got old school mates who are on the stedz just to fill out the sleeves on an XL T-shirt down the pub.

Performance enhancing drugs? Creatine? Caffeine? Energy drinks? Cannabis? It's funny where we've drawn a little moral line in the sand after a point.

Obviously being a facetious twat but it's interesting to think about why some substances we deemed dreadful because they just actually work, where others we don't bat an eyelid.

abarro81

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I read it, quite liked it in some ways, and broadly agree with lots of it. Not that that makes plunging into the focus of my constructed meaning less fun, nor does the meaningless nature of it all make it any easier to not have an existential crisis every time I'm injured again. Still miss being young!

Loos3-tools

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Great, I’m glad you read it. Yeah the states of mind aren’t mutually exclusive. I’m not so happy about being broken and love to find meaning in climbing whatever it might be.

Liamhutch89

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All that said if a climber chooses to have hooks grafted onto their hands or an extra limb grafted onto their forehead or even dose up on performance enhancing drugs get the edge for the send then go for it.

I like how the use of performance enhancing drugs is considered comparable here. My slightly controversial view is that I'd be amazed if some of the top climbers aren't already using them, on the basis that climbing is completely unregulated out of competition, whilst simultaneously being dependent on strength/fitness/etc. We know people do it in other sports. Hey, I've got old school mates who are on the stedz just to fill out the sleeves on an XL T-shirt down the pub.

Performance enhancing drugs? Creatine? Caffeine? Energy drinks? Cannabis? It's funny where we've drawn a little moral line in the sand after a point.

Obviously being a facetious twat but it's interesting to think about why some substances we deemed dreadful because they just actually work, where others we don't bat an eyelid.

I agree, actually. Whilst I think performance enhancing drugs are clearly defined, e.g. creatine isn't because it's not a drug, but caffeine is, drawing the line of acceptability is a funny one. I've even heard one of those mates with the tight sleeves exclaim testosterone is ok because it's natural and he's just getting a bit more of it!

Loos3-tools

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I have no problems with people taking performance enhancing drugs or having hooks grafted on to their arms.

Anti

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All that said if a climber chooses to have hooks grafted onto their hands or an extra limb grafted onto their forehead or even dose up on performance enhancing drugs get the edge for the send then go for it.

I like how the use of performance enhancing drugs is considered comparable here. My slightly controversial view is that I'd be amazed if some of the top climbers aren't already using them, on the basis that climbing is completely unregulated out of competition, whilst simultaneously being dependent on strength/fitness/etc. We know people do it in other sports. Hey, I've got old school mates who are on the stedz just to fill out the sleeves on an XL T-shirt down the pub.

Performance enhancing drugs? Creatine? Caffeine? Energy drinks? Cannabis? It's funny where we've drawn a little moral line in the sand after a point.

Obviously being a facetious twat but it's interesting to think about why some substances we deemed dreadful because they just actually work, where others we don't bat an eyelid.

I agree, actually. Whilst I think performance enhancing drugs are clearly defined, e.g. creatine isn't because it's not a drug, but caffeine is, drawing the line of acceptability is a funny one. I've even heard one of those mates with the tight sleeves exclaim testosterone is ok because it's natural and he's just getting a bit more of it!

That is kinda the thing though. Why don't we like steroids / sarms / research peptipes? It's not a legal issue, some aren't illegal. Is it just because they work really well?

As an aside I'd love to see an Olympic games where everyone can augment as much as they want. World's strongest man level of doping with carbon inserts into their thighs etc. Mega.

Loos3-tools

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Transhumanism. Who’s got the best biotech.

Liamhutch89

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All that said if a climber chooses to have hooks grafted onto their hands or an extra limb grafted onto their forehead or even dose up on performance enhancing drugs get the edge for the send then go for it.

I like how the use of performance enhancing drugs is considered comparable here. My slightly controversial view is that I'd be amazed if some of the top climbers aren't already using them, on the basis that climbing is completely unregulated out of competition, whilst simultaneously being dependent on strength/fitness/etc. We know people do it in other sports. Hey, I've got old school mates who are on the stedz just to fill out the sleeves on an XL T-shirt down the pub.

Performance enhancing drugs? Creatine? Caffeine? Energy drinks? Cannabis? It's funny where we've drawn a little moral line in the sand after a point.

Obviously being a facetious twat but it's interesting to think about why some substances we deemed dreadful because they just actually work, where others we don't bat an eyelid.

I agree, actually. Whilst I think performance enhancing drugs are clearly defined, e.g. creatine isn't because it's not a drug, but caffeine is, drawing the line of acceptability is a funny one. I've even heard one of those mates with the tight sleeves exclaim testosterone is ok because it's natural and he's just getting a bit more of it!

That is kinda the thing though. Why don't we like steroids / sarms / research peptipes? It's not a legal issue, some aren't illegal. Is it just because they work really well?

As an aside I'd love to see an Olympic games where everyone can augment as much as they want. World's strongest man level of doping with carbon inserts into their thighs etc. Mega.

If we allow a free-for-all then, then really we're not just allowing it but requiring it, e.g. any teenager who wants to make the team needs to get on the juice. I suspect there can be a number of health consequences

Oldmanmatt

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All that said if a climber chooses to have hooks grafted onto their hands or an extra limb grafted onto their forehead or even dose up on performance enhancing drugs get the edge for the send then go for it.

I like how the use of performance enhancing drugs is considered comparable here. My slightly controversial view is that I'd be amazed if some of the top climbers aren't already using them, on the basis that climbing is completely unregulated out of competition, whilst simultaneously being dependent on strength/fitness/etc. We know people do it in other sports. Hey, I've got old school mates who are on the stedz just to fill out the sleeves on an XL T-shirt down the pub.

Performance enhancing drugs? Creatine? Caffeine? Energy drinks? Cannabis? It's funny where we've drawn a little moral line in the sand after a point.

Obviously being a facetious twat but it's interesting to think about why some substances we deemed dreadful because they just actually work, where others we don't bat an eyelid.

I agree, actually. Whilst I think performance enhancing drugs are clearly defined, e.g. creatine isn't because it's not a drug, but caffeine is, drawing the line of acceptability is a funny one. I've even heard one of those mates with the tight sleeves exclaim testosterone is ok because it's natural and he's just getting a bit more of it!

That is kinda the thing though. Why don't we like steroids / sarms / research peptipes? It's not a legal issue, some aren't illegal. Is it just because they work really well?

As an aside I'd love to see an Olympic games where everyone can augment as much as they want. World's strongest man level of doping with carbon inserts into their thighs etc. Mega.

If we allow a free-for-all then, then really we're not just allowing it but requiring it, e.g. any teenager who wants to make the team needs to get on the juice. I suspect there can be a number of health consequences
True.

As things stand today.

Since we are, however, already deep into “Transhumanism” (anybody else wear glasses? Use technology to perform day to day tasks, otherwise impossible to you? Drive an Exoskeleton to work? Turn your legs into wheels, for recreation? Add an artificially sticky surface to your feet, for nebulous, performance related, reasons?) and it seems likely that technology will only increase the availability of “improvements”; at some point soon, we will have to decide what is permissible.
I think that will depend on what modifications become acceptable in society at large and might simply be the expansion on “categories” for various sports, much the same as our “Para” categories, now.

More will be expected, where greater “ability” is available.

dunnyg

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There is a difference between a tool and being 'transhuman' I think. E.g.  pointy stick makes my limbs longer and pointier, but using one doesnt make me 'transhuman'.

Oldmanmatt

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There is a difference between a tool and being 'transhuman' I think. E.g.  pointy stick makes my limbs longer and pointier, but using one doesnt make me 'transhuman'.

I see your point.
But what about people who don’t have the limb to begin with? Is it a matter of being “removable”? If you have an artificial hip, or a pacemaker or even a drug administering implant, they’re not “readily” removable. Dental implants?
Is it still transhuman if you have a permanent “socket” attached, to clip your “tools” into, even if the tools themselves are interchangeable?
It just seems like it’s one of those sliding scales again. One where you can definitely say some state is not teanshuman and some state is transhuman, but picking the point on the scale where the transition occurs is difficult.

If climbing, for instance, was confined to “pure” human, then tool use wouldn’t be permitted, so we’ve already agreed that certain adaptations of human physiology are acceptable.
This is a matter of what society at large deems acceptable. I can remember when Chalk was thought of as cheating. Bouldering pads “ruined” the challenge etc etc.
Even today, the competitors with the best shoes (for instance) have an advantage over those who have lesser shoes and so on.

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All that said if a climber chooses to have hooks grafted onto their hands or an extra limb grafted onto their forehead or even dose up on performance enhancing drugs get the edge for the send then go for it.

I like how the use of performance enhancing drugs is considered comparable here. My slightly controversial view is that I'd be amazed if some of the top climbers aren't already using them, on the basis that climbing is completely unregulated out of competition, whilst simultaneously being dependent on strength/fitness/etc. We know people do it in other sports. Hey, I've got old school mates who are on the stedz just to fill out the sleeves on an XL T-shirt down the pub.

Performance enhancing drugs? Creatine? Caffeine? Energy drinks? Cannabis? It's funny where we've drawn a little moral line in the sand after a point.

Obviously being a facetious twat but it's interesting to think about why some substances we deemed dreadful because they just actually work, where others we don't bat an eyelid.

I agree, actually. Whilst I think performance enhancing drugs are clearly defined, e.g. creatine isn't because it's not a drug, but caffeine is, drawing the line of acceptability is a funny one. I've even heard one of those mates with the tight sleeves exclaim testosterone is ok because it's natural and he's just getting a bit more of it!

That is kinda the thing though. Why don't we like steroids / sarms / research peptipes? It's not a legal issue, some aren't illegal. Is it just because they work really well?

As an aside I'd love to see an Olympic games where everyone can augment as much as they want. World's strongest man level of doping with carbon inserts into their thighs etc. Mega.

If we allow a free-for-all then, then really we're not just allowing it but requiring it, e.g. any teenager who wants to make the team needs to get on the juice. I suspect there can be a number of health consequences

But then if the only argument is that it's an accessibility thing then most sport is already fucked for financially worse off. All the equipment, clubs, travel to and from events etc. It's already a game of haves and have-nots before you even get the first hair on your chest!

Then with more physical sports like rugby there's already somewhat of a pre-requisite to get on the gear. Just take a look at the current UKAD sanction list and see how many rugby players have been caught pissing hot because they messed up their dosing.

moose

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Then with more physical sports like rugby there's already somewhat of a pre-requisite to get on the gear. Just take a look at the current UKAD sanction list and see how many rugby players have been caught pissing hot because they messed up their dosing.

The recall reading that the situation is completely out-of-control in South Africa.  To get a place at Pro rugby team, you need to have had scholarships at the best schools and colleges.  The result has supposedly been 12-13 year olds relentlessly weight training while on the gear, in order to get into the best high schools.

It's not an easy situation and there seems to be a lack of consistency with attitudes and rules.  For example, baseball acknowledged its steroid situation, and steroid use now results in opprobrium and sanctions.  But a now common surgery in baseball is now the Tommy John procedure for pitchers' elbows  - a "spare" tendon is threaded through tunnels drilled in the heads of the ulna and humerus and sutured into a figure-8 bow!  So.... therapeutic steroid use that might have allowed recovery and prevented damage is "bad".... and the better "good" alternative is for players to get damaged and then have frankly unpleasant sounding surgery.  I can see there are differences between drug use and surgical repair... but it still strikes me as a bit of an odd situation.

tomtom

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I think we're a long way before exoskeletons or any other form of physical implant becomes (a) cheap and (b) mainstream enough to be readily available to more than half a dozen people in the world (random number I've made up to make the point)...

Oldmanmatt

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I think we're a long way before exoskeletons or any other form of physical implant becomes (a) cheap and (b) mainstream enough to be readily available to more than half a dozen people in the world (random number I've made up to make the point)...

But, you mean “powered” exoskeleton, don’t you? A sort of “Aliens”, “Ironman”, sort of thing?
Because we already use exoskeletons to adapt our natural physiologies to better suit environments and activities and that technology continues to advance.
I know you think this is just being pedantic, but my point is, it’s a spectrum and we’re already a long way along it. I don’t think it has to reach it’s extreme conclusion to be relevant, imminently. Even without trotting out some early 1990’s quotes from supposed professionals about how the internet is just a fad or electronic gaming isn’t going to last etc etc.
The advancement in prosthetic limbs has already reached a point where it’s possible that somebody with artificial legs can out run the majority of people with quite well trained “natural” legs and conceivably even out run the fastest human known, without a power source other than human muscles.
A point, where it is becoming feasible for a healthy human to replace a healthy limb, for a perceived performance gain and whilst cost continues to be a factor, it is already less so than it was even twenty years ago.

SA Chris

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Seem to remember Colin McCrae breaking a finger and it not healing quickly enough, so he thought about doing without it. 

Johnny Brown

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This is why I mentioned my eyes in post #3. Eyes are quite useful. Mine are now better corrected than most people's will ever be naturally.

 

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