[User deactivated.]

I don't often have partners to climb with and i'm keen to try some highball boulders whilst mitigating the risk of broken legs. Top rope soloing looks like an appropriate solution, though I understand it also carries risk.

My question to those who've done it: how much faff is it in practice?

I've watched the Dave Mac video where he uses a shunt with backup knots and an ascender for a trad project, and he makes it look easy, but my rope experience currently extends as far as clipping a few bolts. I'd have to learn a lot, which is fine, but clearly I don't really have any understanding of the faffyness involved to determine if it's worth it. Thoughts?

[SA Chris]

I only experienced using a shunt recently when trying out a new route. I friend who is an experienced RA tech set it up for me and talked me through the process. Even with his help, I found it to be pretty scary and you really need to focus so as to not fuck anything up, especially transitioning from shunt to abbing back down.

If you can, get someone who can talk you through it and watch you doing it first.

[Will Hunt]

i'm keen to try some highball boulders

Which ones? I enjoy highball rock scrambling and could possibly join you?

I used to top rope myself up stuff at Pex Hill with a Grigri, but this probably wasn't safe. You can certainly try moves off a rope while abseiling with a Grigri but it can be a pain in the arse. The back up would be tying a knot in the rope somewhere a little between the bit you're trying. You'll want to have something on the edge of the crag to protect the rope.

[colin8ll]

My question to those who've done it: how much faff is it in practice?

I normally top rope solo easy routes to get millage in. I tend to choose crags with trees directly above each line and straight up/down lines. It's quick and easy to chuck laps on routes like this. It gets more faffy when anchors are scarce and you have to work to equalise the anchors and get the rope running down your line well. It's defo more faff in these scenarios. The other faff is adjusting rope protectors when abb'ing in but that's no biggy really.

By the way, avoid anything with loose rock. Getting KO'd in a top-rope solo situation would be really bad news.



 

[User deactivated.]

i'm keen to try some highball boulders

Which ones? I enjoy highball rock scrambling and could possibly join you?

There's plenty that have caught my eye: cindy crawford, tender homecoming, strangeness, etc.

[T_B]

I’ve done a fair amount recently and just use a grigri+ attached to my harness with a maillon. I use a semi static rope. Back up overhand knot on the rope beneath. Works fine.

[Paul B]

A year or so before leaving Sheffield I had the realisation that a lot of the trad routes I was saving for an onsight attempt, were never going to happen (I think there was a lot of enthusiasm not acknowledging my lack of braveness). I took a rope out with a micro-traxion (sometimes a modified GriGri 1) and had a great time.

Likewise, before going to Madagascar a few years ago now, I went to the local quarry (which isn't very high) and setup a rope so I could just do laps all night. I'd climb the route on the MT, top-out and amble round and then do it again until it went dark. This wasn't that exciting but did result in decent fitness (in terms of walking also).

There's a TR soloing group on FB; they'll tell you you're definitely going to die.

[Will Hunt]

i'm keen to try some highball boulders

Which ones? I enjoy highball rock scrambling and could possibly join you?

There's plenty that have caught my eye: cindy crawford, tender homecoming, strangeness, etc.

Strangeness is fairly straightforward to ab down and check the moves on. Can't remember exactly what the belay is on Tender Homecoming or even how easy it is to get to the top of the boulder! I can imagine Cindy being difficult to top rope due to how steep it is. Maybe best working the moves off a ladder? Obviously you then still have to take falls...

[ali k]

My question to those who've done it: how much faff is it in practice?

I've done a fair bit over the years, but mostly working longer trad projects. My take on it would be that trying hard stuff at your limit would be best just on a gri-gri dropping in from the top, with a knot tied below you when you pull on (and with rope protectors at the top) as per TB. But doing anything more than a move or two is a ballache as the rope doesn't really move through the gri-gri unless you can take a hand off to pull it.

For longer easier stuff I always used a micro traxion as the rope runs through it without needing to touch it but you wouldn't want to take a fall on a micro traxion too often or work stuff on it.

Basically, for working individual moves, short sections, or cleaning stuff I used a gri-gri abseiling in from above. Trying a route from bottom to top that I had semi-dialled I used a micro traxion (dangerously).

[Steve R]

Basically, for working individual moves, short sections, or cleaning stuff I used a gri-gri abseiling in from above. Trying a route from bottom to top that I had semi-dialled I used a micro traxion (dangerously).

This.  Working something on a gri gri generally easy and less faff than setting up a normal toppers.  Worth using rope protectors and ropes you're not bothered about trashing.  I use cut down bits of old sport rope for working grit/shorter stuff.

[mrjonathanr]

One suggestion Liam: if yiou have to transition between devices, or up/down, you cannot hurt yourself if you tie a fig 8 in the rope near you and clip into it with a screwgate fiddling with kit.

[Franco]

Basically, for working individual moves, short sections, or cleaning stuff I used a gri-gri abseiling in from above. Trying a route from bottom to top that I had semi-dialled I used a micro traxion (dangerously).

This.  Working something on a gri gri generally easy and less faff than setting up a normal toppers.  Worth using rope protectors and ropes you're not bothered about trashing.  I use cut down bits of old sport rope for working grit/shorter stuff.

I like a shunt for the start of a project/hard moves/ short route. You can go up and down easier than on a micro traxion. Descending on a MT feels horribly sketch. I've never got that on board with the gri gri train. Great for abseiling and trying moves if you're just inspecting stuff, but very bad for the elbow tendonitis trying to move upwards. For anything less than 15m a shunt is ideal (although this isn't how they're meant to be used).

I think trying to rope solo highballs is a grand idea. You can try harder, clean better, have more goes and warm up better. I've seen several people climb their hardest (non-highball) boulder ticks after working them on a rope. I think once you get over the scary feel of shunting it is the way to technically progress on slabs and vert stuff.

[dunnyg]

Not to add much, but I've previously used a gri gri, and figured if I can do a (10m) trad route pulling rope through, then I can solo it. Obviously I'm not trying hard enough climbs though. Shunts seem better, but I find them scary as I am less familiar. Back up knots are your friend. Another vote for rope protectors being incredibly useful.

[gollum]

I always found a Shunt completely idiot proof and absolutely rock solid, provided it wasn’t too steep and I was going in a fairly straight line without much of a traverse. I used to stick a fairly short quick draw in between the Shunt and the harness.

Top tips: tie rope at top so it effectively becomes two ropes and use adequate weight at the bottom.

[cheque]

Descending on a MT

 

[Bradders]

i'm keen to try some highball boulders

Which ones? I enjoy highball rock scrambling and could possibly join you?

There's plenty that have caught my eye: cindy crawford, tender homecoming, strangeness, etc.

I am keen for all of these and would happily join you for a pad party.

I very much doubt Cindy would be a good candidate for top roping, it's too steep and I'd be scared of some dickhead fiddling about with the rope from wherever you might be able to belay from. Would be much easier to try the moves stepping off a ladder.

Basically, for working individual moves, short sections, or cleaning stuff I used a gri-gri abseiling in from above.

This.  Working something on a gri gri generally easy and less faff than setting up a normal toppers.  Worth using rope protectors and ropes you're not bothered about trashing.  I use cut down bits of old sport rope for working grit/shorter stuff.

I'm no expert but would second these two posts, this is what I've always done to work / clean highballs. Using a gri gri is dead easy and setting up the rope likewise.

[dunnyg]

Shame the ring is gone off the calf. Would have made it easier to tr stuff on the front!

[Ged]

My question to those who've done it: how much faff is it in practice?

I've done a fair bit over the years, but mostly working longer trad projects. My take on it would be that trying hard stuff at your limit would be best just on a gri-gri dropping in from the top, with a knot tied below you when you pull on (and with rope protectors at the top) as per TB. But doing anything more than a move or two is a ballache as the rope doesn't really move through the gri-gri unless you can take a hand off to pull it.

For longer easier stuff I always used a micro traxion as the rope runs through it without needing to touch it but you wouldn't want to take a fall on a micro traxion too often or work stuff on it.

Basically, for working individual moves, short sections, or cleaning stuff I used a gri-gri abseiling in from above. Trying a route from bottom to top that I had semi-dialled I used a micro traxion (dangerously).

Ali, interested to know why you think the MT is dangerous. Just the way you were using it? Or fear of the teeth shredding your rope? I've used one loads for working stuff, and whilst properly taking falls takes a bit of getting used to, I was merrily lobbing off multiple times on walk of life, and felt fairly happy.

[ali k]

Trying a route from bottom to top I used a micro traxion (dangerously).

Ali, interested to know why you think the MT is dangerous. Just the way you were using it? Or fear of the teeth shredding your rope? I've used one loads for working stuff, and whilst properly taking falls takes a bit of getting used to, I was merrily lobbing off multiple times on walk of life, and felt fairly happy.

Paranoid about the teeth shredding the sheath and stopping the camming mechanism if the fall was anything more than a slump (sorted this a bit with the bike tyre round my neck jobbie). But mainly cos the little catch that fully opens the cam could get knocked and then you’d be sliding all the way to the bottom unless you’ve tied knots as you go (which I sometimes couldn’t on steeper stuff). I’m sure neither of these scenarios are that likely but stranger things have happened. Probably the most likely fuck up would be transferring from the gri gri to the MT on a free hanging ab or vice versa to go back down.

[User deactivated.]

Tonnes of great advice in here, so thanks all. I think i've got a grigri knocking about somewhere so i'll start with that to begin with, using knots as a backup, rope protectors and somewhere relatively simple with a tree at the top. My usual rate of figuring moves out is glacial but if anything changes and I start making some upwards progress then I'll look into a shunt or microtraxion.

A ladder is also something I hadn't considered but could be very useful even on not so high stuff, for projecting hard moves that can't be reached off the ground, rather than ground up every time.

Will, Bradders, i'm keen for pad parties and other suggestions on highballs. The last move on cindy looks a bit lairy!

[mrjonathanr]

Paranoid about the teeth shredding the sheath ..... mainly cos the little catch that fully opens the cam could get knocked and then you’d be sliding all the way to the bottom

They are sharp little things but I don't see damaging the sheath as likely.

Some people file that catch off.

[turnipturned]

Personally I would avoid using a shunt if you aren’t that experienced.

Just use a grigri as other have suggested.

This is the set up I use and have never failed to set up a TR:

10m semi static
15m dynamic
120cm sling
Friend 1 & 2
Rock 7 & 8
Rope protector (albeit I always forget it)

[SA Chris]

Quite specific gear sizes there Dan!

[turnipturned]

Quite specific gear sizes there Dan!

Yeah, but literally this set up has never failed me. Even when I have no idea what the top is like.

I do however take the approach of; I am probably going to fall off anyway..... slinging heather is surprisingly reliable 

[Franco]

That sounds like a clever rack. I usually use a rack of tricams for mountain stuff - that way you cover your passive and active placements for minimal weight. For moorland stuff you can normally just get away with a sling though I find. A small ground anchor/ rapping off your mate is worth a look too, as often if you can't sling something, there's nowt. 

[danm]

Shunt/Grigri/MT Pro's and con's (just my opinion, JB and Bonjoy will have a better idea)

Shunt: kind to the rope, pays out smoothly if rope is tensioned. Grab it and you're fucked, potentially the same if the cam arm hits you or the rock. Hit a backup knot at speed and it will open up and release pretty easily.

Grigri: kind to rope, bit of a bastard to pay out rope. Harder to defeat mechanism than shunt.

MT: best movement, looks scary but much less likely to develop slack so is probably the safest. Cam release is double movement so very unlikely to happen by accident.

Also, learn to transition, then you can pretend you are a cool caver type rather than a boring climber with no real clue.

[Tony]

I have definitely had a Micro-Traxion disengage by accident. I don't think it is as unlikely as thought when it is attached to harness rather than on lanyard or on (static) belay. Also MT bad at cross-loading 'biner, though v unlikely to break.

Almost all accidents in climbing are user error. Be cautious of: transitioning between devices, incorrectly engaging devices, inadequate rope protection.

Always put a knot in. A device might break hitting a knot but my money would be on it not. If hitting a backup knot catastrophically breaks the device, I suspect in most instances, you would hit the ground in the absence of a knot anyway.

Put a rope protector on anything causing a deviation.

Be nervous. Check. Check again.

[Bradders]

Nice demonstration of a gri gri working well here

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHYCn9_D7tP/?igshid=rh973tzd1r8b

[Steve R]

Nice demonstration of a gri gri working well here

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHYCn9_D7tP/?igshid=rh973tzd1r8b

Ha, that's a good effort - looks like he managed to grab a handful of rope on the braking side whilst sideways on the way down

[Steve R]

I like a shunt for the start of a project/hard moves/ short route. You can go up and down easier than on a micro traxion. Descending on a MT feels horribly sketch. I've never got that on board with the gri gri train. Great for abseiling and trying moves if you're just inspecting stuff, but very bad for the elbow tendonitis trying to move upwards. For anything less than 15m a shunt is ideal (although this isn't how they're meant to be used).

How do you go up and down on a shunt Franco?  just carefully squeeze to go down? never found this very nice, probably due to fat ropes and fat (heavy) body... And to go up, presumably need to whack an ascender on above the shunt?  And do you weight the bottom of the rope?  never like the feel of that personally... Open to switching to shunt if I'm missing the tricks!
As for saving elbows, ascending with a gri gri is easy even hanging in space with an ascender (or shunt!) + sling footloop.

[Bonjoy]

Shunt/Grigri/MT Pro's and con's (just my opinion, JB and Bonjoy will have a better idea)

Shunt: kind to the rope, pays out smoothly if rope is tensioned. Grab it and you're fucked, potentially the same if the cam arm hits you or the rock. Hit a backup knot at speed and it will open up and release pretty easily.

Grigri: kind to rope, bit of a bastard to pay out rope. Harder to defeat mechanism than shunt.

MT: best movement, looks scary but much less likely to develop slack so is probably the safest. Cam release is double movement so very unlikely to happen by accident.

Also, learn to transition, then you can pretend you are a cool caver type rather than a boring climber with no real clue.

I'd agree with all that Dan.
I routinely use a grigri for working/cleaning higher probs on my own. I use with a jammer and etrier to save my elbows on ascent. I also pull a loop of the rope below the grigri through the crab and over the device to lock it when climbing (same way you'd lock off a Stop if anyone is familiar with that). It's pretty easy to release one handed if needed. Rope pro is essential if you are repeatedly falling.
Have tried climbing on a shunt but never felt very safe and always clipped into knots as a backup on a second line.

[mrjonathanr]

Always put a knot in. A device might break hitting a knot but my money would be on it not.

MT is pretty strong. Video from Mr Rope Solo himself:


Big drop is at 7.30

[danm]

Worth noting, you Shunt fanbois:

Not enough detail to determine the cause, but I suspect it was used on a single strand, and perhaps a D shaped krab would help load the cam arm off-axis? https://www.incidents.thebmc.co.uk/responses/012b13ac-0ca6-401d-a79a-521bbe551678

[Moo]

If you're keen on using the shunt I'd recommend looking at a safetec duck R. It's exactly the same working principle as a shunt but has a steel body so its much more durable and won't pop off the rope if it hits a knot. It's basically a shunt but has been designed for the application of a back up device. They are only designed to work on 10.5 to 11mm rope however.

It's obviously a bit more expensive but they are hard wearing and have a proven track record for reliability.

There's a reputable seller in sheffield if you want to get your hands on one before buying.

https://www.access-techniques.com/shop/safetec-duck-r/