[Blue Boy]

I was wrongly told the Anasazi range was being discontinued a few weeks ago. Turns out they've just been rebranded to Niad plus a few upgrades in the form of toe rubber.

https://www.adidas.co.uk/search?q=niad&oldq=Naid%20


I thought the branding change seemed pointless but a quick Google suggests that there may have been some controversy with the name Anasazi:


https://indianpueblo.org/what-does-anasazi-mean-and-why-is-it-controversial/


Anyone know any more details about them? The VCS look like they have a slightly different shape in the images too

[SA Chris]

Interesting. I see they've removed the Kokopelli too, wonder if that was just part of the rebrand, or is that now offensive?

[cheque]

I posted about this in another thread about 5.10s the other week. Looks like they’ve given all types the kind of square toe that the Moccs have always had which is a mistake in my opinion and probably also the opinion of anyone who’s still wearing Anasazis. If you’re going to change the name, logos, toe shape etc. why would you keep the colours?

[spidermonkey09]

Can't work out if the sale of Five Ten to Adidas was the best bit of business since the sale of Bebo, selling right at the very tip of the crest of the wave, or whether the consequent decline is entirely Adidas' fault. Since the takeover they have overseen a massive fall in confidence from the climbing community with the sizing debacle, a competitor launching with the express aim of taking their customers and their flagship model and most recognisable 'name' being changed. How much is bad luck and how much not doing their due diligence? Or is climbing such a small part of the Five Ten offering compared to MTB they aren't too fussed?

[moose]

I thought the branding change seemed pointless but a quick Google suggests that there may have been some controversy with the name Anasazi:

https://indianpueblo.org/what-does-anasazi-mean-and-why-is-it-controversial/

Interesting...I wonder if they were influenced by the recent issues in US sport for teams with Native American influenced names - and decided to pre-empt any potential controversy.  This last NFL season the ex-Washington Redskins had to be officially renamed "Washington Football Team" - I think 5.10 should have followed suit and renamed the Anasazi "Climbing Shoe"... a lost opportunity for a Ronseal style, back-to-basics ad campaign.

[SA Chris]

It goes further

https://www.squawalpine.com/squaw-valley-name-change

[T_B]

Renamed Olympic Valley I believe.
Start of the oldest and most famous 100 mile running race in the US - Western States.

[cheque]

This last NFL season the ex-Washington Redskins had to be officially renamed "Washington Football Team" - I think 5.10 should have followed suit and renamed the Anasazi "Climbing Shoe"... a lost opportunity for a Ronseal style, back-to-basics ad campaign.

The “Football Team” name is temporary while they sort out the rights to their new one though isn’t it?

The Cleveland Indians in baseball and the Canadian football team Edmonton Eskimoes are at similar stages of changing their names too. I’m glad- if (let’s say) Spurs were called the Tottenham Yids I’d be delighted to see the back of the name. This stuff’s always been offensive after all- it’s wrong to characterise it as having “become offensive” because most people didn’t care or realise it bothered anyone before. In the case of Anasazis I imagine most British climbers have only ever had a vague idea of it having any meaning at all- about half of us pronounce it with a T in the middle!

Can't work out if the sale of Five Ten to Adidas was the best bit of business since the sale of Bebo, selling right at the very tip of the crest of the wave, or whether the consequent decline is entirely Adidas' fault... is climbing such a small part of the Five Ten offering compared to MTB they aren't too fussed?

I was told Adidas only wanted the MTB shoes bit of the business. I wouldn’t be surprised if they stop making climbing shoes altogether at some point and I’d be even less surprised if the NIADs disappear within a few years.

[jamesturnbull97]

Can't work out if the sale of Five Ten to Adidas was the best bit of business since the sale of Bebo, selling right at the very tip of the crest of the wave, or whether the consequent decline is entirely Adidas' fault. Since the takeover they have overseen a massive fall in confidence from the climbing community with the sizing debacle, a competitor launching with the express aim of taking their customers and their flagship model and most recognisable 'name' being changed. How much is bad luck and how much not doing their due diligence? Or is climbing such a small part of the Five Ten offering compared to MTB they aren't too fussed?

The 5.10 MTB shoes aren't up to the same quality they used to be either so who knows what Adidas are up to. Tempted by a pair of Unparallel's for my next pair having seen how the climbing shoes stack up.

[T_B]

@cheque Not sure why Adidas would bow out of a growing market for climbing shoes? You always hear rumours like this in climbing, but unless it’s from the Adidas board I wouldn’t bet on it.

They do some weird things with running shoes though and it’s certainly not always easy to get where they’re coming from.

[SA Chris]

They do some weird things with running shoes though and it’s certainly not always easy to get where they’re coming from.

Like almost destroy the distinctive 3 stripe branding?

https://www.adidas.co.uk/adizero-pro-shoes/FY0101.html

[T_B]

More around the SL20 which was generally considered a great shoe in 2020. Loads of colourways, immediately discounted and available all over at £50 or less. Like they’d made way too many. Then released more colourways later in the year and did the same thing. Then instead of launching the SL20.2 or SL21, released the, er, new SL20. No name change. But it’s quite a major update.  Soon to be discounted no doubt.

Anyway if you want a lightweight 5K/10K road shoe for not much money I recommend them!

[cheque]

@cheque Not sure why Adidas would bow out of a growing market for climbing shoes? You always hear rumours like this in climbing, but unless it’s from the Adidas board I wouldn’t bet on it.

Yeah, just baseless speculation on my part. No-one should go buying or selling Adidas stock because of it. 

It’s just easy to feel like a corporation like Adidas can just drop climbing in a second without even noticing. They, Reebok & Converse did that in the 90s didn’t they? Is 5.10 a brand that high profile comp climbers wear? That’s what’s driving the current climbing boom isn’t it?

[SA Chris]

Anyway if you want a lightweight 5K/10K road shoe for not much money I recommend them!

I'll look some out, thanks. I've always defaulted to Ultraboost, but several old pairs are in need of replacement soon.

[T_B]

It feels like the 5.10 brand has slowly declined over the past 15 - 20 years.

Gen Z are probably more into Tenaya/Sportiva/Scarpa?

Obvs they need to re-brand as 5.16  or V16 or sumat.

[moose]

This last NFL season the ex-Washington Redskins had to be officially renamed "Washington Football Team" - I think 5.10 should have followed suit and renamed the Anasazi "Climbing Shoe"... a lost opportunity for a Ronseal style, back-to-basics ad campaign.

The “Football Team” name is temporary while they sort out the rights to their new one though isn’t it?

The Cleveland Indians in baseball and the Canadian football team Edmonton Eskimoes are at similar stages of changing their names too.

True - though I suspect it's less a rights issue, and more that they haven't yet decided on a new name (they have recently launched a website asking for public submissions). There seems to be little comparatively pressure on the Kansas City Chiefs to rename - same with Florida States college teams, the Seminoles.  A "respect" issue I guess - names that can be construed as flattering or celebrating Native Americans seem more tolerated (Washington's name is defined in the dictionary as a racial slur, which was pretty indefensible, although they did resist for a long time).

[spidermonkey09]

It feels like the 5.10 brand has slowly declined over the past 15 - 20 years.

Gen Z are probably more into Tenaya/Sportiva/Scarpa?

Obvs they need to re-brand as 5.16  or V16 or sumat.

When I started climbing in 2011 5.10 were still seen as a prestige brand. I remember getting my first whites and feeling like a proper climber! There were some big UK climbers wearing them - Tom Randall, Pete Whittaker, Pasquill, Mcclure etc which maybe contributed to that. A lot of the newer challenger brands also explicitly tried to break into the Whites market with very similar shoes eg Tenaya Masai. I bought my last pair of whites in 2015 and remember liking them but it being very clear that shoe design had moved on. They felt clunky and old school compared to a lot of other shoes about, which were softer and had a heel that fitted.

[SA Chris]

I remember buying my first pair of Pinks, and the guy in the climbing shop saying if you wear them people will "expect more of you".

[moose]

I remember buying my first pair of Pinks, and the guy in the climbing shop saying if you wear them people will "expect more of you".

It's only this last year that I mustered the self-assurance to buy a pair of Solutions.  They were the first shoe to break the £100 barrier, at a time when the next most expensive shoe was probably less than £90.  For years, I felt I'd be too embarrassed by my unworthiness to wear them in public (like a park runner in a pair of Nike Alphaflys).

[SA Chris]

I felt the same with my Solutions. felt like i needed to break them in a bit and make them look a bit worn out before I wore them down the climbing wall. Even now when I see a video of myself punting up a grade 6 problem wearing them I think I look like a bit of a fraud.

[Yossarian]

I think Adidas handled the acquisition really badly. By incorporating 5.10 as a sub brand, they immediately alienated all the people who liked 5.10 for being an independent company with a prestigious heritage. Conversely, when Nike acquired Converse the whole thing was kept fairly quiet. Everyone carried on buying Chuck Taylors thinking they were still making some sort of minor sartorial statement about their countercultural leanings. I actually remember going to a (quite bizarre and amazing) footwear debate in a club in Soho, and when asked about Converse almost no-one in the audience knew about this. Anyway, 5.10 seem to have stopped innovating, and so the kids want Evolv Phantoms instead. And the older generation who favour independent brands like Organic, etc don't like the footwear behemoth association.

[steveri]

It's only this last year that I mustered the self-assurance to buy a pair of Solutions.  They were the first shoe to break the £100 barrier, at a time when the next most expensive shoe was probably less than £90.  For years, I felt I'd be too embarrassed by my unworthiness to wear them in public (like a park runner in a pair of Nike Alphaflys).

Ha, no such self deprecation at the wall these days. Strong but unsubtle 20-something gets keen > upgrades from hire shoes > thrashes Tarantulas to death > finds a bit of technique and onto Dragos or similar

[moose]

It's only this last year that I mustered the self-assurance to buy a pair of Solutions.  They were the first shoe to break the £100 barrier, at a time when the next most expensive shoe was probably less than £90.  For years, I felt I'd be too embarrassed by my unworthiness to wear them in public (like a park runner in a pair of Nike Alphaflys).

Ha, no such self deprecation at the wall these days. Strong but unsubtle 20-something gets keen > upgrades from hire shoes > thrashes Tarantulas to death > finds a bit of technique and onto Dragos or similar

So true! Back when the walls were open, Furias / Dragos worn with thick, white socks were de rigour for muscular novices.

[Yossarian]

So true! Back when the walls were open, Furias / Dragos worn with thick, white socks were de rigour for muscular novices.

I love these guys. Huge expensive shoes / striped loops socks, enormous vest. But then often seem to carry their chalk around in the plastic bag it came in. Also, they have an amazing kind of dynamic rhythm when they catch a hold - it usually takes them about 4-5 rhythmic lunges to get it properly.

[Johnny Brown]

About ten years ago Petzl were forced to rename their best-selling and market leading industrial sit harness from the Navaho to the Avao. No wokeness back then, apparently the Navaho nation took them to court for using the name without permission.

[SA Chris]

Can Niad refert to anything other than the Nose in a day?

[remus]

Can Niad refert to anything other than the Nose in a day?

I like to think they're using the opportunity to raise the profile of National Iguana Awareness Day (8th september, add it to your diary).

[Teaboy]

I remember buying my first pair of Pinks, and the guy in the climbing shop saying if you wear them people will "expect more of you".

Before these were properly available in the UK a pair found their way to Cotswold Betws y Coed for us to test (I was working there) as it was the branch where most climbers worked. As they fitted me it was my job to report back to the purchasers in head office. I told them they looked shit and climbed shit (an opinion I stand by) and that they would not sell, so we didn’t so I was surprised to see them on virtually every climbing magazine cover for the next ten years!

It’s that sort of foresight that has stopped me from contributing to the buy the dip thread.

[SA Chris]

I'm pretty sure that's where I got my pair! I remember they split along the heel cup, which was standard and everyone's did that. I also remember doing Sacre Couer at Blackchurch the week after I bought them and my toes being in agony.

[SA Chris]

If the name was the issue, unless it's old stock, they seem to be keeping the Velcro version, although bizarrely they seem to have stopped using the word "Velcro" (which I think is actually a brand) and called it a "hook and loop".

https://www.adidas.co.uk/five-ten-anasazi-hook-and-loop-climbing-shoes/BC0871.html

Looks like they are adopting VCS for any shoes employing the "hook and loop" system now.

[cheque]

They’ve used VCS instead of Velcro in the name for more than a decade now. It predates Adidas.

Those are reduced so it’s pretty safe to assume they are old stock.

[SA Chris]

Fair enough using VCS, but actually calling it loop and hook in advertising is a bit strange, assume it's because they don't use genuine Velcro ^tm.

Other climbing shoes use "Velcro" in the name, so presumably they do?

[cheque]

Yeah I think Velcro’s like “Hoover” and “Tannoy” isn’t it? A brand name used as a generic term colloquially.

Miura Velcroes are called Miura VS on the Sportiva website. They also use the term hook & loop further down.

Looks like Scarpa have the real thing though despite just having V in the shoe names. Unparallel too.

[Johnny Brown]

As I struggle to break in my Anasazi pros I'm increasingly thinking shit build quality was a feature not a bug.

[seankenny]

It's only this last year that I mustered the self-assurance to buy a pair of Solutions.  They were the first shoe to break the £100 barrier, at a time when the next most expensive shoe was probably less than £90.  For years, I felt I'd be too embarrassed by my unworthiness to wear them in public (like a park runner in a pair of Nike Alphaflys).

Ha, no such self deprecation at the wall these days. Strong but unsubtle 20-something gets keen > upgrades from hire shoes > thrashes Tarantulas to death > finds a bit of technique and onto Dragos or similar

So true! Back when the walls were open, Furias / Dragos worn with thick, white socks were de rigour for muscular novices.

Swear I saw a club flyer for a night called Muscular Novice.

[cheque]

Fred Nicole talks a starstruck Rob G through the NIAD range. Apparently the toe shape hasn’t changed. Hard to know whether than means the Velcros & lace-ups still have a different toe shape to the Moccs or if they’ve all been unified into one or the other. He also describes Moccs as “working quite well for all types of bouldering”  The lace-ups are apparently “slightly softer than they used to be”.