[MischaHY]

Alright folks, despite having tried a bunch of shoes over the last few years I still find myself really struggling to get a heel fit that doesn't roll off the second it touches a small/precise hook - especially the little edge hooks you often get on lime. 

The best fits I've had so far have been the S-Heel on the Skwama/Kataki and the Solution, both in the womens/low volume version (Solution mainly because it is super stiff so it can't fold around my pathetic tiny heels).

The problem is that this works for bouldering because I can just downsize the crap out of them (44.5 street size, Kataki 40.5 and Solution 41), but this sucks on routes because they're pretty narrow and get painful across the foot on long routes. Solution W in 42 was much better in terms of width but then doesn't hold on the heel anymore. The mens versions then are wider so nicer on the forefoot but have higher volume heels so don't hold well anymore on the teflon-heels.

Anyone got any advice? I've got Solutions in various sizes on the way to have a re-try and also some Evolv Phantoms which are apparently fairly wide with a narrow heel.

Shoes I've tried on so far that don't work:

Instinct VS
Otaki
Miura VS (perfect on the toes but baggy heel)
Anasazi/Pro
Shamans
Futuras
Magos
Chimeras
Furia
Drago
Dragons
Butora Acro
Evolv Agro

Probably some others that I've forgotten. 

Really appreciate some feedback on what might work better.

[abarro81]

Of my Scarpa shoes I find the Instinct Laces (the black and orange ones) to be best on most heels (apart from where you need a "hook" - where I resort to anasazis, pity the front half of anasazis is so shit!)

[SA Chris]

Have you tried the Solution Comp? I only looked at a friend's, but I noticed it doesn't have the branding profiled on the heel like the standard Solution, which I think harms the heelhooking capabilities of the Comp, reduces contact area.

[User deactivated.]

I too have skinny heels and a broad-ish forefoot. In terms of fit, Evolv seem to do this well. I have the Oracle and it's the best fitting shoe i've tried, but despite this I also seem to roll the heel on it. My all time favourite is the Sportiva Genius which only fits a little bit less good, but the heel works better for me, and I believe the Testarossa is built on the same last if no-edge isn't your thing.

[M1V0]

Have you tried out LS Testarossa? I've had these about a year and the heel is seemingly a solid cup of rubber. They became my go-to for lime over the summer and I haven't experienced any bagging out so far.

edit: the lacing system really lets you cinch everything in nicely too in order to reduce potential bagging.

[Bradders]

Have you tried the Solution Comp? I only looked at a friend's, but I noticed it doesn't have the branding profiled on the heel like the standard Solution, which I think harms the heelhooking capabilities of the Comp, reduces contact area.

It's a different shape heel too, not the ball shaped one on the normal Solution. I have a pair and they are good, although softer in the toe box than I would have liked.

[SA Chris]

They are on my wish list for next pair when I can justify it. I'd quite like a softer toe, find the standard solution a bit "clumpy" sometimes.

[MischaHY]

Of my Scarpa shoes I find the Instinct Laces (the black and orange ones) to be best on most heels (apart from where you need a "hook" - where I resort to anasazis, pity the front half of anasazis is so shit!)

Must say I haven't tried these after having such a poor fit in the VS. Is there a lot of room at the bottom of the heel? This seems to be the issue with a lot of shoes that no matter how small I go, I always have too much room at the bottom of the foot, so if the heel isn't stiff then it just folds underneath and slips off the holds.

[AMorris]

I really like the fit of tenayas, and the mundaka has been my go to for basically everything for a while now. I am a street size 42 ish, and wear 39-40, which I find to be snug but by no means excessively tight. I don't really like mega tight shoes since I always find myself trying to take weight off my feet, which is obviously a huge negative. Although for me these shoes are as close to perfect for almost everything (with the exception of perhaps mega steep tensiony problems, where I would opt for the old school Scarpa Instinct orange slippers, best shoe ever made) tenayas tend not to have great build quality, but only in places which don't affect the performance of the shoe e.g. tongue peeling apart or upper toe rubber lifting away a bit. Their newer runs seem to have resolved some of these issues though.

[Ballsofcottonwool]

You say you have a wide forefoot, I got a pair of Ocun Ozone Plus a couple of years ago and was able to downsize compared to other brands because there was more room in the forefoot of the shoe which in turn meant that the heel was tighter than the standard volume model.

[csl]

Alright folks, despite having tried a bunch of shoes over the last few years I still find myself really struggling to get a heel fit that doesn't roll off the second it touches a small/precise hook - especially the little edge hooks you often get on lime. 

Shoes I've tried on so far that don't work:

Furia

Did you try the original design with the nice little rubber cheat strip? They were pretty good I thought.

[MischaHY]

Have you tried the Solution Comp? I only looked at a friend's, but I noticed it doesn't have the branding profiled on the heel like the standard Solution, which I think harms the heelhooking capabilities of the Comp, reduces contact area.

Had a quick try on of the low-volume in a 42 which wasn't inspiring tbh, but in fairness I think I do just need to go smaller in Solutions considering I don't do well in the 42 womens at least in the heel area.

I've got the Solutions mens and womens on the way in 41/41.5/42 so I do a proper comparison which frankly I should have done ages ago so we'll see how that plays out.

[SA Chris]

Are you doing it online? I had a box turn up with about 8 different pairs last time, put the wife to shame with the amount of running trainers she gets delivered.

[jwi]

Tape the heels in place.

[tomtom]

Of my Scarpa shoes I find the Instinct Laces (the black and orange ones) to be best on most heels (apart from where you need a "hook" - where I resort to anasazis, pity the front half of anasazis is so shit!)

Must say I haven't tried these after having such a poor fit in the VS. Is there a lot of room at the bottom of the heel? This seems to be the issue with a lot of shoes that no matter how small I go, I always have too much room at the bottom of the foot, so if the heel isn't stiff then it just folds underneath and slips off the holds.

Like Alex, I like the instinct laces - slightly lighter and a better fit. Isnt there a LV volume of the laces too? Sure I saw Alex Pucc pushing some on insta a while back?

I've yet to try them on rock (just on wood - wub) but I have a pair of Unparallel Sirius (dragons) and Uprise VCS (anazazi velcro)... The Sirius have an amazing fitting heel - and the heel on the VCS is very agressive... Dan Turner described the heels on the Uprise VCS as "weapons"... but I've not used them in anger yet...

I've yet to find a heel I REALLY like (like your description in many ways) but the above is the best I've found so far (Instinct laces)...

[Anti]

The absolute best heel I've found (have similar issues to you) so far has been Evolv Oracle. I bloody love the shoe. It's a different fit to the Agro. I liked the VS but it had a shit heel that would pop off. I have the VSR Womens and it has a narrow heel and fixes the problem but the Oracle is just brilliant. The laces mean you can really ratchet down the fit and they won't budge.

I have a fat front and narrow heel, so Anasazi etc are just awful for me. I have Solutions, which are okay in terms of fit, but the solid heel cup just ruins it for me on small, precise heels. Nice for grit or something where I just want to smash the heel in.

[Coops_13]

I mainly climb in Solutions and find the heels good, but when I need a really good heel I use LS Genius - give them a try?

[spidermonkey09]

I recommend these to everybody but you could try the Womens LV Miuras, either lace up or velcro? The mens miura heel was baggy for me but these are perfect.

[Bradders]

I mainly climb in Solutions and find the heels good, but when I need a really good heel I use LS Genius - give them a try?

Blows my mind when people recommend the heel on the Genius. It's just a big thick blob of plastic!

[MischaHY]

I mainly climb in Solutions and find the heels good, but when I need a really good heel I use LS Genius - give them a try?

Blows my mind when people recommend the heel on the Genius. It's just a big thick blob of plastic!

Yes but curiously enough this is what I effectively need, because I have such a low volume heel that if the heel isn't stiff, it just folds underneath and slips off. It doesn't necessarily slip off my foot, but does slip off the hold. For example the only heels that fit really well now are the s-heel and solution heel which are both very stiff/hard.

[remus]

Bit of a left-field suggestion, but could you make some sort of heel insert that'd fit inside the shoe to fill out the dead space? Combined with something that already has a stiff heel it might help stop the heel scrunching up without having to downsize too aggressively.

[MischaHY]

Are you doing it online? I had a box turn up with about 8 different pairs last time, put the wife to shame with the amount of running trainers she gets delivered.

Aye, I work for an online shop in Germany and you can order on invoice so it's straightforward to get a bunch of pairs in to try on at the same time.

[tomtom]

Are you doing it online? I had a box turn up with about 8 different pairs last time, put the wife to shame with the amount of running trainers she gets delivered.

Aye, I work for an online shop in Germany and you can order on invoice so it's straightforward to get a bunch of pairs in to try on at the same time.

Heaven!

I'm considering starting a self shoe shaming thread on here - I have so many lined up in the spare bedroom/boardroom at the moment :D

Pre Adidas days, I remember confusing the sales assistant in our nearby Snow and Rock by asking to try on four different pairs of the same size Anasazi Velcro's... after we got them all out - and there was a near 1cm difference between the smallest and largest he understood why!

[MischaHY]

Bit of a left-field suggestion, but could you make some sort of heel insert that'd fit inside the shoe to fill out the dead space? Combined with something that already has a stiff heel it might help stop the heel scrunching up without having to downsize too aggressively.

Ooh, now we're getting technical 🤓Any thoughts on what might be a suitable material?

[moose]

I mainly climb in Solutions and find the heels good, but when I need a really good heel I use LS Genius - give them a try?

Blows my mind when people recommend the heel on the Genius. It's just a big thick blob of plastic!

Goes to show how subjective this issue is.  I really dislike the Solution heel - to me, they are a massive insensate lump of rubber. I prefer the heels of LS Pythons and Miura VSs - despite having areas of exposed leather, with no rubber, I find them grippier, as I can conform them more to the hold.

[MischaHY]

I recommend these to everybody but you could try the Womens LV Miuras, either lace up or velcro? The mens miura heel was baggy for me but these are perfect.

This was on the agenda but now Kataki seems to be the superior choice as it's got similar stiffness and precision but the heel fits perfectly. If only it had toe rubber... That's basically what I want really - Kataki stiffness with a decent toepatch for hooking. Oh, and a little bit wider. 1st world problems.

[MischaHY]

I mainly climb in Solutions and find the heels good, but when I need a really good heel I use LS Genius - give them a try?

Blows my mind when people recommend the heel on the Genius. It's just a big thick blob of plastic!

Goes to show how subjective this issue is.  I really dislike the Solution heel - to me, they are a massive insensate lump of rubber. I prefer the heels of LS Pythons and Miura VSs - despite having areas of exposed leather, with no rubber, I find them grippier, as I can conform them more to the hold.

Yeah this is exactly the thing as a heel that conforms for me just folds away. This means soft shoes feel awesome on the front but crap on the back. I accidentally turned up to my boulder project with the wrong pair of shoes the other day and literally couldn't do a move I normally use to warm up on because the shoes were folding off the hold whilst staying fully on the foot! It's madness but the way forward does seem to be hard heels for me at least.

[spidermonkey09]

This was on the agenda but now Kataki seems to be the superior choice as it's got similar stiffness and precision but the heel fits perfectly. If only it had toe rubber... That's basically what I want really - Kataki stiffness with a decent toepatch for hooking. Oh, and a little bit wider. 1st world problems.

Yeah, the LV Miura's are quite narrow as well. I found the Katakis too wide.

That feels like a pretty niche requirement; can't be very often you need to stand on a stiff rubber dependent 10p edge and then toehook before needing a precision heelhook! 

More generally it doesn't surprise me that toe rubber tends to come only on the softer shoes, given its more of a bouldering requirement and bouldering generally doesn't need super stiff edging shoes.

[remus]

Bit of a left-field suggestion, but could you make some sort of heel insert that'd fit inside the shoe to fill out the dead space? Combined with something that already has a stiff heel it might help stop the heel scrunching up without having to downsize too aggressively.

Ooh, now we're getting technical 🤓Any thoughts on what might be a suitable material?

Butchering an insole might work if you could find something stiff enough. Maybe a piece of a tupperware box? Or some sort of molded fiberglass kinda thing? Dont blame me if it cracks and you get a foot full of glass though 

[MischaHY]

This was on the agenda but now Kataki seems to be the superior choice as it's got similar stiffness and precision but the heel fits perfectly. If only it had toe rubber... That's basically what I want really - Kataki stiffness with a decent toepatch for hooking. Oh, and a little bit wider. 1st world problems.

Yeah, the LV Miura's are quite narrow as well. I found the Katakis too wide.

That feels like a pretty niche requirement; can't be very often you need to stand on a stiff rubber dependent 10p edge and then toehook before needing a precision heelhook! 

More generally it doesn't surprise me that toe rubber tends to come only on the softer shoes, given its more of a bouldering requirement and bouldering generally doesn't need super stiff edging shoes.

I must be really weird because I find myself toehooking on vert routes quite often, usually to help add body tension on directional holds or control rotation. I get your point - that combination is not so important in the majority of scenarios but I do have a lime boulder project at the moment that needs all 3 (although not pure dime edge capacity, just instinct level stiffness)   

It's an overhanging rising traverse with 14 moves, very small crimps and footholds, one crucial toehook and two tiny spike heelhooks where you really need to drive weight through the heel. It's actually what got me so picky about all this in the first place 😂

Here's a video:

[m.cooke.1421]

Bit of a left-field suggestion, but could you make some sort of heel insert that'd fit inside the shoe to fill out the dead space? Combined with something that already has a stiff heel it might help stop the heel scrunching up without having to downsize too aggressively.

Ooh, now we're getting technical 🤓Any thoughts on what might be a suitable material?

Butchering an insole might work if you could find something stiff enough. Maybe a piece of a tupperware box? Or some sort of molded fiberglass kinda thing? Dont blame me if it cracks and you get a foot full of glass though 

How about a blister plaster stuck to the inside of your shoe?

[MischaHY]

Bit of a left-field suggestion, but could you make some sort of heel insert that'd fit inside the shoe to fill out the dead space? Combined with something that already has a stiff heel it might help stop the heel scrunching up without having to downsize too aggressively.

Ooh, now we're getting technical 🤓Any thoughts on what might be a suitable material?

Butchering an insole might work if you could find something stiff enough. Maybe a piece of a tupperware box? Or some sort of molded fiberglass kinda thing? Dont blame me if it cracks and you get a foot full of glass though 

How about a blister plaster stuck to the inside of your shoe?

Cheap, removable and malleable... I like it!! Will genuinely give this a go.

[Nutty]

I recently bought some Boreal Ninjas for using on the board, they fit my wide forefoot and have a moulded heel similar to Solutions. Obviously too soft if you want an edging shoe, but the Dharmas might be a stiffer option (not sure if they're the same last but they're supposed to be wide fitting and the heel is the same)?

[SA Chris]

Cheap, removable and malleable... I like it!! Will genuinely give this a go.

Accept that if you use Compeed it might be there a while! The surface of these things are very slippery though, might be worth a strip of finger tape over the top. Could stack two, but if you start adding enough to reach the thickness of a book then it's regarded as aid.

[Bradders]

I mainly climb in Solutions and find the heels good, but when I need a really good heel I use LS Genius - give them a try?

Blows my mind when people recommend the heel on the Genius. It's just a big thick blob of plastic!

Goes to show how subjective this issue is.  I really dislike the Solution heel - to me, they are a massive insensate lump of rubber. I prefer the heels of LS Pythons and Miura VSs - despite having areas of exposed leather, with no rubber, I find them grippier, as I can conform them more to the hold.

Yeah this is exactly the thing as a heel that conforms for me just folds away. This means soft shoes feel awesome on the front but crap on the back. I accidentally turned up to my boulder project with the wrong pair of shoes the other day and literally couldn't do a move I normally use to warm up on because the shoes were folding off the hold whilst staying fully on the foot! It's madness but the way forward does seem to be hard heels for me at least.

Ha, again, bizarre given that my go-to shoes for really difficult heel hooks are a baggy old pair of 5.10 (proper 5.10 not Adidas) Pinks. I find the heel works so well on those because it folds / molds to the rock.

[MischaHY]

Cheap, removable and malleable... I like it!! Will genuinely give this a go.

Accept that if you use Compeed it might be there a while! The surface of these things are very slippery though, might be worth a strip of finger tape over the top. Could stack two, but if you start adding enough to reach the thickness of a book then it's regarded as aid.

Can't risk being accused of aid... That's only allowed in Font.

[Wood FT]

This was on the agenda but now Kataki seems to be the superior choice as it's got similar stiffness and precision but the heel fits perfectly. If only it had toe rubber... That's basically what I want really - Kataki stiffness with a decent toepatch for hooking. Oh, and a little bit wider. 1st world problems.

Yeah, the LV Miura's are quite narrow as well. I found the Katakis too wide.

That feels like a pretty niche requirement; can't be very often you need to stand on a stiff rubber dependent 10p edge and then toehook before needing a precision heelhook! 

More generally it doesn't surprise me that toe rubber tends to come only on the softer shoes, given its more of a bouldering requirement and bouldering generally doesn't need super stiff edging shoes.

I must be really weird because I find myself toehooking on vert routes quite often, usually to help add body tension on directional holds or control rotation. I get your point - that combination is not so important in the majority of scenarios but I do have a lime boulder project at the moment that needs all 3 (although not pure dime edge capacity, just instinct level stiffness)   

It's an overhanging rising traverse with 14 moves, very small crimps and footholds, one crucial toehook and two tiny spike heelhooks where you really need to drive weight through the heel. It's actually what got me so picky about all this in the first place 😂

Here's a video:

That video is class, the way he falls off and slides down to the start of the trav on the snow whilst screaming 'neinnnnnnnnnn'. Imitable behavior.

[SA Chris]

That video is class, the way he falls off and slides down to the start of the trav on the snow whilst screaming 'neinnnnnnnnnn'

To which you reply "not 9, 8b+"

[MischaHY]

This was on the agenda but now Kataki seems to be the superior choice as it's got similar stiffness and precision but the heel fits perfectly. If only it had toe rubber... That's basically what I want really - Kataki stiffness with a decent toepatch for hooking. Oh, and a little bit wider. 1st world problems.

Yeah, the LV Miura's are quite narrow as well. I found the Katakis too wide.

That feels like a pretty niche requirement; can't be very often you need to stand on a stiff rubber dependent 10p edge and then toehook before needing a precision heelhook! 

More generally it doesn't surprise me that toe rubber tends to come only on the softer shoes, given its more of a bouldering requirement and bouldering generally doesn't need super stiff edging shoes.

I must be really weird because I find myself toehooking on vert routes quite often, usually to help add body tension on directional holds or control rotation. I get your point - that combination is not so important in the majority of scenarios but I do have a lime boulder project at the moment that needs all 3 (although not pure dime edge capacity, just instinct level stiffness)   

It's an overhanging rising traverse with 14 moves, very small crimps and footholds, one crucial toehook and two tiny spike heelhooks where you really need to drive weight through the heel. It's actually what got me so picky about all this in the first place 😂

Here's a video:

That video is class, the way he falls off and slides down to the start of the trav on the snow whilst screaming 'neinnnnnnnnnn'. Imitable behavior.

Brilliant, isn't it? Proper psyche material.

Alright update - got the expected stack of shoes today and surprisingly enough the best fit seems to be the men's solution in 41.5. Although it does seem to be higher volume it somehow has a much nicer fit to the Achilles than the women's one which I found meant it slipped less when testing hooks. This is actually very advantageous because in every other sense the men's model is far superior for me being wider and stiffer.
The odd thing is I tried this exact model on not two years ago and it felt shit so maybe TomTom is onto something with his four pairs the same size 🤔🙈

The evolvs didn't fit at all unfortunately although I wish they did because they're a gorgeously designed shoe.

Will report back once I've messed around with them a bit but right now they feel spot on so hopefully it stays like that.

[SA Chris]

Solutions were remodelled about 2 or 3 years ago (or longer)? I never had the old ones so can't compare.

[User deactivated.]

The evolvs didn't fit at all unfortunately although I wish they did because they're a gorgeously designed shoe.

Will report back once I've messed around with them a bit but right now they feel spot on so hopefully it stays like that.

Oddly, my Evolv Oracles were the only shoe where I've HAD to use the plastic bag trick to get them on, and they were crippling to begin with, but after a week they broke in and became my comfiest shoes and have not stretched any further since then. I keep them on for 2 hour board sessions with no issue. They aren't my preferred shoe for performance (genius) but are my favourite to wear and the build quality seems top notch. Everyone has a different foot though!

[Anti]

The evolvs didn't fit at all unfortunately although I wish they did because they're a gorgeously designed shoe.

Will report back once I've messed around with them a bit but right now they feel spot on so hopefully it stays like that.

Oddly, my Evolv Oracles were the only shoe where I've HAD to use the plastic bag trick to get them on, and they were crippling to begin with, but after a week they broke in and became my comfiest shoes and have not stretched any further since then. I keep them on for 2 hour board sessions with no issue. They aren't my preferred shoe for performance (genius) but are my favourite to wear and the build quality seems top notch. Everyone has a different foot though!

Second this. I went a full size down and had to bag + wear on the sofa to break in a few times. They are by far my favourite shoe for all sorts of stuff.

[Fultonius]

Bit of a left-field suggestion, but could you make some sort of heel insert that'd fit inside the shoe to fill out the dead space? Combined with something that already has a stiff heel it might help stop the heel scrunching up without having to downsize too aggressively.

You could maybe get a ski boot fitter to inject some mouldable boot liner material in there? Would be a very custom job, but could actually be very successful.

Not cheap and cheerful however....
Ooh, now we're getting technical 🤓Any thoughts on what might be a suitable material?

Butchering an insole might work if you could find something stiff enough. Maybe a piece of a tupperware box? Or some sort of molded fiberglass kinda thing? Dont blame me if it cracks and you get a foot full of glass though 

How about a blister plaster stuck to the inside of your shoe?

Cheap, removable and malleable... I like it!! Will genuinely give this a go.

[andy_e]

Looking for some knowledge...

Dragon heels are the only heel I've had recently that fit to my narrow heels and low-profile feet. I've got a pair of Sirius now and I love them but the slightly baggier heel isn't as good. I used to use Evolvs but binned them after some build quality issues with the Nexxo (which, incidentally, had decent heels until the rubber peeled off them!). Lace-up would be ideal as I can get a tight fit across my thin feet. Anyone got any rogue suggestions? Scarpa, Sportiva etc. are generally too wide in the toe box.

Cheers all!

[Fultonius]

Drago LV? 

Some find the Drago heels not good. I've just had a pair arrive (note - not qualifying for cheap shoes thread  ), but I think others have said they're good, so maybe worth trying them on to see? Toe box feels more snug than my usual Scarpas.

Mainly just posting to prompt others who may agree/disagree.

[Wellsy]

I found the Drago heels a little baggy, otherwise great shoe. The LVs are as good in every other way but have way more snug heels which is ace

[Fultonius]

I found the Drago heels a little baggy, otherwise great shoe. The LVs are as good in every other way but have way more snug heels which is ace

Been breaking the Drago in, and just generally using them as all my other shoes need resoled. Really struggled on w problems that felt like they should be a fairly basic heel today. So maybe not so good...

[JJP]

Looking for some knowledge...

Dragon heels are the only heel I've had recently that fit to my narrow heels and low-profile feet. I've got a pair of Sirius now and I love them but the slightly baggier heel isn't as good. I used to use Evolvs but binned them after some build quality issues with the Nexxo (which, incidentally, had decent heels until the rubber peeled off them!). Lace-up would be ideal as I can get a tight fit across my thin feet. Anyone got any rogue suggestions? Scarpa, Sportiva etc. are generally too wide in the toe box.

Cheers all!

Hey Andy

Ye I used to love the dragon heal as well - could get it to stick on almost anything.  Scarpa dont fit me so Im pretty much using la sportiva now.  The heel on some of their models are pretty good (eg skwama and otaki) although im not so keen on the more bulbous solution heel.  You mentioned the toe box is too wide but I think they do lower volume versions of most of their shoe models - might be worth a shot? 

[MischaHY]

Picked up the Sportiva Mantra a few days back. First impressions are excellent and very positive for flat heeled folk. I'd say it's the first proper soft shoe/slipper that's ever fitted my foot well. Sensitivity is amazing, hooking is very stable with minimal rubber folding and the overall fit/feel is very snug and precise.

The fit is somewhere between Solution and Skwama but very soft. Really looking forward to using these on rock, especially sandstone/gritstone.

Size wise I actually went 0.5 sizes up from my Solution size and this seems to work well. They still haven't stretched much yet so we'll see how that goes.

Overall though very impressed and thusfar highly recommended.

[crimpinainteasy]

Drago LV? 

Some find the Drago heels not good. I've just had a pair arrive (note - not qualifying for cheap shoes thread  ), but I think others have said they're good, so maybe worth trying them on to see? Toe box feels more snug than my usual Scarpas.

Mainly just posting to prompt others who may agree/disagree.

Drago LVs were a game changer for me. I find the normal Drago heel baggy as fuck.