[TobyD]

I'm aware that there have been some recent similar discussions on here, but thought I'd try a new thread for it anyway.
I've relatively recently binned my career as it was frankly contributing significantly to ruining my mental state, and I'd become extremely cynical about much of it. I'm trying to make a living writing, but feel that I'd like to explore a more immediate, and perhaps secure option in a different field. I'm 95% sure that I am not going to go back into physiotherapy now (which I've just left). I'm not tied to any option at the moment, and also happen to have a masters degree in print journalism, but almost no experience other than knocking out a bit of freelance stuff.
So... Any cunning ideas out there? I feel like I almost have too many but thought it might help to discuss; for me or anyone else in a similar situation? Cheers

[tommytwotone]

It's not the answer you're gonna want to hear, but explore opportunities in the tech industry.

Roles are plentiful, jobs are pretty secure (assuming you choose your sector / domain carefully) and with experience come opportunities for contract work and therefore more autonomy over when you work and don't work.

Absolutely no precondition of being "techy" to work in the sector. In most roles (apart from being an actual developer), an ability to think logically / clearly, work hard and focus on getting shit done will get you a long way.

[JamieG]

How about a job working in scientific/medical communication? There are quite a lot of companies and organisations that need people with good writing skills, but also scientific understanding, to communicate their research outputs and products etc to the general public. Or similarly a lot of journals have a news section at the start where someone summarises the main recent findings in the field in a more digestible manner. I guess it is science journalism. Might make good use of both your writing and physio backgrounds.

[petejh]

You have the masters in journalism and you had a career in the health sector. You could seek work writing about what you know? Medical journals, local print media, national print media, editing work for technical writing? Or perhaps a role in print PR, advertising, or producing copy for private health sector.
(edit, see Jamie G) 

[TobyD]

All great suggestions, and thanks guys (including TTT) and some of the things I had already been looking at - applied for some posts at Penguin. I'll have a look at some journals for work as well. Not really sure where to start with tech, but i'll have a scan about.
It might be worth mentioning I've been filling some time writing a piece of long form fiction which may or may not become a book (dreary lockdown cliche I know).

[SA Chris]

Just to be clear do you want to totally get out of the physio business, or just doing it for the NHS? considered going private?

Is there anything related you might be interested in? eg, I know a few physios locally who now specialise in running ad movement clinics, using the physio / biomechanics part of their background?

https://runningschool.com/services/running-school-sessions/ for example.

[T_B]

Get a job in a design/brand agency and work up to ‘Head of Copy’ or similar?

[tomtom]

Getting paid to write things seems to be increasingly hard in todays world of seemingly FOC content....

But - perhaps getting a job as a press officer, communication person in a small/medium company might be something? Cousin with a journo degree went from bottom level hack at a local rag and now has been press officer (media manager?) for a few medium sized organisations..

A fair bit of turning the handle etc... I've been involved a bit with this wrt press releases for my work, and for the journal I run...

[Johnny Brown]

I'm afraid I'm pretty cynical about the reality of trying to make a creative life pay even modest bills in 2020s England.

Unless you are mortgage-free, if you want to write I would personally suggest finding something unrelated which is lucrative and can be done part-time or in stints, giving you plenty of time to write and climb. I would expect medical journalism jobs are very competitive, poorly paid and will sap any creative energy for personal work.

I've no idea what TTT's tech jobs entail but sounds like a good start. Rope Access/ Oil & Gas is the traditional option that works for many climbers but not many will enthuse about any aspect but the money. The expanding renewables side has a better rep though.

If you have (or plan to have) kids then you might as well commit to a local 9-5 of some sort as there's fuck all else you be able to do with the next fifteen years.

[Johnny Brown]

On the other hand, I know a local outdoor publisher -VG - have ambitious expansion plans and would be a good employer. Don't think they're hiring at the mo but post-pandemic you might want to keep a close eye.

[abarro81]

If you have (or plan to have) kids then you might as well commit to a local 9-5 of some sort as there's fuck all else you be able to do with the next fifteen years.

You sell it so well 

[Oldmanmatt]

I'm afraid I'm pretty cynical about the reality of trying to make a creative life pay even modest bills in 2020s England.

Unless you are mortgage-free, if you want to write I would personally suggest finding something unrelated which is lucrative and can be done part-time or in stints, giving you plenty of time to write and climb. I would expect medical journalism jobs are very competitive, poorly paid and will sap any creative energy for personal work.

I've no idea what TTT's tech jobs entail but sounds like a good start. Rope Access/ Oil & Gas is the traditional option that works for many climbers but not many will enthuse about any aspect but the money. The expanding renewables side has a better rep though.

If you have (or plan to have) kids then you might as well commit to a local 9-5 of some sort as there's fuck all else you be able to do with the next fifteen years.

This.

Ties into what I said to you on messenger.

But I’d really try to avoid a 9-5 if you can.

Exped and production/film/tv work. Your mix of skill sets is really good, journalism, Physio, climbing and outdoor skills.
Add some advanced first aid and talk to one of the guys about rope access quals.

It’s part time etc.

I kinda know/am aquatinted with a few people in that area, couple who work on “SAS, Who Dares Wins” and the like.

Gig/contract work. Always my go to.

You should have a word with some of the Mega yacht management companies too. There is a whole sub genre of yachting called “Expedition Yachts” either in operations or management.

I was Chief Eng/Exped manager on one (MY Lady M) in Greenland and Labrador for the 2000 season. Well paid, exciting/interesting, leads to excellent contacts (guiding wealthy people is great, like that. Sucks when their spoiled brats, but they’re rare in the exped side of things).
I’m a bit long out of it for direct intro, but still know a few people who know people.

Seriously though, don’t abandon your “medical” training, expand it if you can.

Incidentally, I haven’t had a 9-5 since 2008 (and that was more like a 07:30-21:00 seven days a week, which is why I don’t have it anymore).

Broad skill set, extend your experience in “unusual” ways and just say yes to the first vaguely interesting opportunity that pops up, you can always quit. Do a few months as Deckhand on a large yacht. Host a Ski chalet (Physio useful there). Short courses.
Raise a bit of cash, doing a season on the yachts, go do a PPL in rotorcraft (I got halfway through, then got offered my first job in Dubai, which was too good to pass up, ended up there for a decade). I had planned to do some time as a bush pilot in Canada/Greenland, after meeting and working with several of them whilst there.
You’ll be amazed what’s possible if  you just try.

[SA Chris]

If you have (or plan to have) kids then you might as well commit to a local 9-5 of some sort as there's fuck all else you be able to do with the next fifteen years.

You sell it so well 

Yep, he's underselling too. 15 years is an optimistic figure, depending how many you churn out, and the gap between churns. And hoping they don't choose some tertiary ed that takes forever to complete.

[petejh]

I'm afraid I'm pretty cynical about the reality of trying to make a creative life pay even modest bills in 2020s England.

Unless you are mortgage-free, if you want to write I would personally suggest finding something unrelated which is lucrative and can be done part-time or in stints, giving you plenty of time to write and climb. I would expect medical journalism jobs are very competitive, poorly paid and will sap any creative energy for personal work.

I've no idea what TTT's tech jobs entail but sounds like a good start. Rope Access/ Oil & Gas is the traditional option that works for many climbers but not many will enthuse about any aspect but the money. The expanding renewables side has a better rep though.

If you have (or plan to have) kids then you might as well commit to a local 9-5 of some sort as there's fuck all else you be able to do with the next fifteen years.

This.

Ties into what I said to you on messenger.

But I’d really try to avoid a 9-5 if you can.

Exped and production/film/tv work. Your mix of skill sets is really good, journalism, Physio, climbing and outdoor skills.
Add some advanced first aid and talk to one of the guys about rope access quals.

It’s part time etc.

I kinda know/am aquatinted with a few people in that area, couple who work on “SAS, Who Dares Wins” and the like.

Gig/contract work. Always my go to.

You should have a word with some of the Mega yacht management companies too. There is a whole sub genre of yachting called “Expedition Yachts” either in operations or management.

I was Chief Eng/Exped manager on one (MY Lady M) in Greenland and Labrador for the 2000 season. Well paid, exciting/interesting, leads to excellent contacts (guiding wealthy people is great, like that. Sucks when their spoiled brats, but they’re rare in the exped side of things).
I’m a bit long out of it for direct intro, but still know a few people who know people.

Seriously though, don’t abandon your “medical” training, expand it if you can.

Incidentally, I haven’t had a 9-5 since 2008 (and that was more like a 07:30-21:00 seven days a week, which is why I don’t have it anymore).

Broad skill set, extend your experience in “unusual” ways and just say yes to the first vaguely interesting opportunity that pops up, you can always quit. Do a few months as Deckhand on a large yacht. Host a Ski chalet (Physio useful there). Short courses.
Raise a bit of cash, doing a season on the yachts, go do a PPL in rotorcraft (I got halfway through, then got offered my first job in Dubai, which was too good to pass up, ended up there for a decade). I had planned to do some time as a bush pilot in Canada/Greenland, after meeting and working with several of them whilst there.
You’ll be amazed what’s possible if  you just try.

Second going and having adventures but I'd caution against doing a helicopter PPL at the moment. From what I hear the industry is awash with unemployed CPLs. (I have my PPL fixed wing).
That said, it's all a cycle and the best thing for high prices is low prices.

[TobyD]

Thanks again all, JB I am fortunately both child and mortgage free and plan to remain so for the foreseeable future. Thanks for the tip re VB

[Johnny Brown]

Then the world's your oyster, you bastard.

[tommytwotone]

I've no idea what TTT's tech jobs entail but sounds like a good start.

I sit in-between a team building the tech, and the people who want / use the tech. In many ways my USP is that I'm the interpreter, allowing the important manager person to not be there all the time holding the developer's hands, and the developer to not get distracted by an interfering important manager person.

It's a great job - I get to work with people I like, I get enough exposure to the "tech" stuff but not so much I'm out of my depth, and I get to be involved as part of a team building tangible stuff I can see in the real world.


Lifestyle / work-life-wise, (and even more so now) largely it's a good sector, with generally enlightened companies recognising that stress and burnout aren't really healthy. Most jobs I've done you're normally done at 5pm, you can turn your laptop off and forget about work till the next day. 

Other side-note is that even entry level roles are nuts at the moment - I saw (for example) a Junior / Trainee Business Analyst role being advertised at £42k recently, which is more than I was earning in 2012 as a Business Analyst Manager with a team of 7 direct reports!

[Oldmanmatt]

Then the world's your oyster, you bastard.

It always is.

I’ve met lots of family people doing the odd things I’ve done, even whole families. There’s an excessive number of Dutch families that live on small yachts, roaming around the globe, doing all sorts of temporary work from marinas (not just boat maintenance either). They have some fairly elaborate online schooling systems and regular meet ups, during the year, so kids can maintain social groups etc. (They, for instance, usually know who’s going to be at their next port of call, before the sail).
I was a little jealous. Modern Nomads. Often really great kids too.

[cowboyhat]

Then the world's your oyster, you bastard.

This quote can become a new sort of board mantra aimed at anyone who fits the criteria and any young joiners who can't grasp that the alternative is the heat death of the universe aka 'The Oak'

[SA Chris]

Thanks again all, JB I am fortunately both child and mortgage free and plan to remain so for the foreseeable future. Thanks for the tip re VB

If you are looking to do something short term, the two winters I spent working on the lifts in Colorado (and road trips after) were among the most memorable times of my life. If you have any interest in snowsports I'd recommend it. Start applying late summer though.

[cowboyhat]

Concur on tech: wife is head of engineering at a software company.

Salaries are surprising to me as someone who started their career as a runner on £200 a week. I've never heard of anyone paid less than 40k and the ethos is very modern, TTT is totally talking truth.

[tommytwotone]

Also - as a fan of the written word (I wanted to be a journo as well but never took that path), there are limitless opportunities for someone who can write clearly and concisely. It is a skill that, in my experience, is under-rated and not often seen in the tech world.

I write documentation that a developer/testers need to read to understand how to build and test The Thing, but also user guides for how The Thing works, press releases for why The Thing is great etc.

[SA Chris]

Sounds like my job, translating among Engineering English  / Marketing English / Contractual English.

[Oldmanmatt]

I spent a while with CMC srl, translating Italian manuals into English, despite having limited Italian.
It was mainly a matter of removing hyperbole.

Phrases like “The wonderful, highly engineered, close tolerance, precision, crafted axle of unique Italian ingenuity and design flare” became “the axle”...

[csl]

Just to throw in some more praise for "Tech"

- You'll likely be able to work remotely a lot of the time even after the pandemic is over.
- The work is generally low stress/relatively easy and you get paid quite a lot of money for it, especially at a big company (or well funded startup).
- If you get in somewhere pre-IPO which later goes public there is the small chance of making life-changing sums of money for not doing very much at all.

Plenty of health technology startups seem to be hiring if you want something vaguely related to the domain have experience in.

[TobyD]

Thanks again to everyone who has posted comments on here, (I'm genuinely touched, although I don't want to be too cheesy about it!
I had been getting extremely low in mood about my prospects and the relative wisdom of having left a totally secure job. I am feeling considerably more positive now, thanks to all of this advice.
I hope it might help anyone else who's in a similar situation or who's thinking of changing careers.

[SA Chris]

After it being initially daunting, I found it quite liberating and pleasantly reckless throwing in a job I hated and forcing myself into a situation where I have to find something new to do. Hopefully you can move to this mindset soon.

[Johnny Brown]

One other point - the prospect of freelancing/ self-employment 'insecurity' often seems daunting to those used to a guaranteed monthly wage. Don't be put off, it's no big deal.

[Fultonius]

One other point - the prospect of freelancing/ self-employment 'insecurity' often seems daunting to those used to a guaranteed monthly wage. Don't be put off, it's no big deal.

This^  You really get a better understanding of how to manage your cash flows when you don't know if you will have work for 6 weeks or 4 months.  (note, I'm not talking gig economy, more experienced freelance / contracting).

I left a secure engineering job, and spent 3 years contracting. Was rarely, if ever, stressed about money.

[James Malloch]

One other point - the prospect of freelancing/ self-employment 'insecurity' often seems daunting to those used to a guaranteed monthly wage. Don't be put off, it's no big deal.

This^  You really get a better understanding of how to manage your cash flows when you don't know if you will have work for 6 weeks or 4 months.  (note, I'm not talking gig economy, more experienced freelance / contracting).

I left a secure engineering job, and spent 3 years contracting. Was rarely, if ever, stressed about money.

I did similar - left a secure finance job - and I'm currently 18 months into contracting.

I didn't have much in the way of outgoings (we lived on a boat which was nearly paid off) and no kids. I thought of it as if I lasted 3 months in this contract, and it took another 3 months to try and find something else, I'd end up in an equal (ish) position as if I'd spent 6 months at my old work.

I did get a bit stressed by this until I actually started (and when big changes like IR35 and covid hit) but my line of work isn't too difficult to get something lined up (if you can be flexible on what grade you enter at etc.).

It's given me much more freedom whilst doing the same work which I enjoyed (minimal meetings, no management responsibility, no "extra curricular" things to try and get a better bonus rating etc. There's obviously less certainty but I'm much much happier for it. The lack of break in my contract also means I've been able to save a big chunk of money which will fund a long trip once travel is allowed again (+ the house we've been able to buy).

I need to start thinking more about pensions again but My plan was to use a year or two of contracting to save up and have some fun before going back perm. However I'd love to keep this up longer term so now I need to start thinking about boring things again...

[Oldmanmatt]

I turned it into a way of life...

Genuinely, though, I simply find project work far more exhilarating and satisfying.
I generally don’t get that same energy with “day to day” stuff. Even when I’ve worked for companies, it’s been best in a trouble shooter role. Parachute me in when the shit hits the fan and I’ll give you 24 hrs a day until all the shit is back in one sock, then leave me be for a week or two (I did once go thirteen months with only two rest days, but there was a lot of shit).
Anyway, it’s good crack, a beginning a middle and an end; makes for a satisfying life.

Until the warranty work appears...

[MischaHY]

Thanks again to everyone who has posted comments on here, (I'm genuinely touched, although I don't want to be too cheesy about it!
I had been getting extremely low in mood about my prospects and the relative wisdom of having left a totally secure job. I am feeling considerably more positive now, thanks to all of this advice.
I hope it might help anyone else who's in a similar situation or who's thinking of changing careers.

Yeah I've also found it motivating to read actually. Definitely gave a few directions to look in as I have a 'similar' CV in some regards.

[TobyD]

One other point - the prospect of freelancing/ self-employment 'insecurity' often seems daunting to those used to a guaranteed monthly wage. Don't be put off, it's no big deal.

Yeah I'm not too stressed about it, I own a flat outright, no kids, few significant overheads at all really, just utility bills, car and food.
The benefits of being in lockdown is I'd usually spend money on holidays cinema and cafés but that maybe offset by how easy it is to buy shit online, but I'm trying to minimise that.

[SA Chris]

Anything you have put away that will keep the wolf from the door certainly makes the whole experience less stressful.

[Moo]

All roads lead to rope access Toby 

[Adam Lincoln]

All roads lead to rope access Toby 

I worked in IT for 6 years after uni and eventually found the Rope Access, oil and gas work which i've been doing for last 10 years.

Ive just re trained onto the renewables side of things as wages have dropped so much in O and G and also IR35 will further drive that down and force more into PAYE roles but without the perks of PAYE. Pretty much my first job has been in Dominican Republic for last 3 months, so it can only go downhill from here. Works with climbing as you only need to work 3 or 4 months a year.

[Fultonius]

I take it you're now doing blade inspection / repair Adam?

[Adam Lincoln]

I take it you're now doing blade inspection / repair Adam?

Yep...

[TobyD]

An update; applying for quite a few jobs, some part time admin type, with the idea that I can continue other things in spare time,  writing endless pitches and trying to get published. No great progress yet, its a slow process.