[cheque]

No, I don’t do calf raises. They would be something to look at pre-route season I guess.

I mentioned squats in answer to the original question rather than in relation to the calf-pump thing. I think they’re great but my perception is probably pretty skewed by leg strength having been a real limiter on my climbing for the last few years.

[Steve R]

For people who struggle with pumped calves, do you have very flexible ankles? (can google how to quickly test this if unsure)
Reason I ask is I have positively sparrow like calves, have never trained them and yet have never struggled with pumped calves on routes - get the sense I could stand around on small edges in a corner or on a vert face all day without it being a problem (reckon foot/toe pain would get me first.) So my guess is I'm passively able to just stand on the achilles (with a slightly dropped heel) rather than having to actively engage any (presumably feeeble) calf muscle.  If I had really flexible ankles, maybe wouldn't be able to do this as heel would have to be so low that your foot's now at an angle where you'll start slipping off the holds.

[cheque]

I just did this- I can’t quite touch my knee to the wall on the right and I’m miles off on the left.

I wouldn’t say that I struggle with pumped calves beyond the first couple of days of the route climbing season but it’s always a smack in the face the first couple of times.

I’m conflicted as to whether I want to improve my ankle flexibility (it’s probably a further problem of my generally poor but improving inflexible legs) or not now!

[Oldmanmatt]

Is it literally the “first couple of times”? (Days, or routes?)

Even if it’s the first couple of sessions, it doesn’t sound as if you will have “ done enough” to produce a physiological change.
Is it a matter of becoming re-accustomed to exposure? Bearing down too much?
And subsequently, you relax back into it?

[Fultonius]

I've got very good ankle flexibility. Learning to use my inside edges instead of just toeing-in on everything helped.

[Oldmanmatt]

I just did this- I can’t quite touch my knee to the wall on the right and I’m miles off on the left.

I wouldn’t say that I struggle with pumped calves beyond the first couple of days of the route climbing season but it’s always a smack in the face the first couple of times.

I’m conflicted as to whether I want to improve my ankle flexibility (it’s probably a further problem of my generally poor but improving inflexible legs) or not now!

I think this might help:



😜

[cheque]

Is it literally the “first couple of times”? (Days, or routes?)

Even if it’s the first couple of sessions, it doesn’t sound as if you will have “ done enough” to produce a physiological change.

It’s something that gets better gradually I guess. Just the first two days back climbing routes are the ones where it’s really noticeable.

[webbo]

I used really struggle with bridging, no problem with the moves but aching feet and calves. Over the last  30 years I have gone running, weight trained including squats , dead lifts, calve raises. Cycled various disciplines mountain biking, road racing, time trailing, cyclo cross. Done triathlons up to Ironman distance. Lots of walking and so on. I have no idea whether this has helped because I can’t remember the last time I tried to do any bridging.
Is it allowed in bouldering.

[Oldmanmatt]

I’ve been thinking about the leg issues people are raising, can I point you at this blog?
I came across Adam Meakins, early in my training. He knows his shit, is blunt about it and frequently admits to being wrong or not sure, which seems rare in this industry.

https://www.thesports.physio/steps-to-success/?amp=1

Now, I like to “walk” and I know I can burn off a couple kilos in a couple of weeks and pull “ fitness” up a few notches in the same period, by adding in some “walks” 2-3 times per week.

Here’s some “progress” checks ~one week appart and trying to keep an RPE in the 4-7 range (4 on the flat, 7 climbing, 5/6 descending).

My first post Xmas walk. Last week, 13th. I carry 12kg (or 25lbs+water):



Gradient profile:



By the 22nd I was already needing to go further and climb more to keep the same effort level up:



Profile:



So, in a week, further, faster, higher.

You can see the difference between the plod up almost a hundred meters of uneven steps and stairways and the trotting down again. I have to trot down to keep the RPE up. Flat sections are rests. It becomes an almost Fartlek  profile.

I’m lucky to have steep cliffs and paths, on my doorstep, but you could achive a similar profile using, say, a multi-storey carpark, or any multi-floor building staircase. In Dubai, I used to alternate between climbing my appartement block stairs and lapping the building. I wore a weight vest, instead of a Bergan, as that invites fewer odd looks in an urban setting.

This does not result in massive legs. Unlike cycling/MTB. When I get that bug, my thighs expand very quickly...


 Note:
The Strava calorie count is way off. Strava thinks I weigh 78kg. Obviously, with the bergan I’m actually carting 90kg around.

Also, on the 22nd, I still only managed 9863  steps, so fuck the whole 10k steps thing.

[SA Chris]

For people who struggle with pumped calves, do you have very flexible ankles? (can google how to quickly test this if unsure)
Reason I ask is I have positively sparrow like calves, have never trained them and yet have never struggled with pumped calves on routes - get the sense I could stand around on small edges in a corner or on a vert face all day without it being a problem (reckon foot/toe pain would get me first.) So my guess is I'm passively able to just stand on the achilles (with a slightly dropped heel) rather than having to actively engage any (presumably feeeble) calf muscle.  If I had really flexible ankles, maybe wouldn't be able to do this as heel would have to be so low that your foot's now at an angle where you'll start slipping off the holds.

Do you run Steve?

[Danny]

For people who struggle with pumped calves, do you have very flexible ankles? (can google how to quickly test this if unsure)
Reason I ask is I have positively sparrow like calves, have never trained them and yet have never struggled with pumped calves on routes - get the sense I could stand around on small edges in a corner or on a vert face all day without it being a problem (reckon foot/toe pain would get me first.) So my guess is I'm passively able to just stand on the achilles (with a slightly dropped heel) rather than having to actively engage any (presumably feeeble) calf muscle.  If I had really flexible ankles, maybe wouldn't be able to do this as heel would have to be so low that your foot's now at an angle where you'll start slipping off the holds.

My calves always get chronically pumped on trad. I like to get my heels on wherever possible. Ankle flexibility surely only part of the story. Massive feet (like mine) and weight must be least as much of an issue. I find front pointing up ice to be outrageous on the calves—and ankles aren't doing that much strapped into B3s.

[Danny]

My favourite climbing specific core routine is to pull to about 2/3-1/2 lock on a fingerboard (big flatty or jugs usually, but sometimes 20 mm) then pull into an approx 45 degree lever for 7s or so. I repeat 8-10 times with 1 min rest between reps. This feels very climbing specific, is tough for me, and always blasts my core.

[tomtom]

On my board - I sometimes grab a couple of large jugs near the top - then walk my feet up and down a range of footholds. Replicates the holding the feet on and placing them - without working the arms (apart from hanging there)

[Oldmanmatt]

On the 30⁰ board, the Youth coach has the youngsters playing “Foot First”, as a way to build core strength and stamina. I have tried it, but it’s very hard, despite having pretty good strength in that aspect.

Simple concept, whatever hand hold you intend to take next, you must first touch with your foot on that side, so right hand=right foot first.
Or, to put it another way, if you can’t get your foot to it, pick a different hold.

The kids often combine that into the game “Plus one”. Usually played as a pair, from agreed starting holds, creating the problem as you go, the first player selects the next move, the following player must then repeat the moves and add one more (each time, touching the next hold with your foot first).
If anybody else is still training as a pair/household. The only limit to the number of players is how long you can wait your turn between attempts and also still keep track of all the moves (clipboard and pen). Makes a good knockout comp, when you fancy a piss around.

Switching it makes it much harder, right hand=left foot.

(Oh yeah, when they do the foot first version, it’s foot free or anything for your feet, only the hand holds are following).

[Steve R]

Do you run Steve?

Occasionally/a bit but def not a runner...

My calves always get chronically pumped on trad. I like to get my heels on wherever possible. Ankle flexibility surely only part of the story. Massive feet (like mine) and weight must be least as much of an issue. I find front pointing up ice to be outrageous on the calves—and ankles aren't doing that much strapped into B3s.

Good point with the ice climbing.  I guess you're right that there'll be a few factors to it.

I’m conflicted as to whether I want to improve my ankle flexibility (it’s probably a further problem of my generally poor but improving inflexible legs) or not now!

Ha, have also been trying to improve leg/hip flexibility recently and had exactly the same thought.  Decided to not try to increase any ankle flexibility just in case!  Until it feels like you can't drop your heel enough on high grit smears or something, probably worth having some rigidity there rather than a floppy yoga paddle.

[mrjonathanr]

Flexibility isn’t the same as weakness and laxity though. Your hip is directly tied to your ankle, so where that goes determines your centre of gravity. And that affects your climbing.

[SA Chris]

Flexibility isn’t the same as weakness and laxity though.

Was going to say the same thing. Having some flexibility in your ankles isn't going to make them, same as having flexible open hips doesn't make you more prone to collapsing in the floor when you try and walk.

[Oldmanmatt]

Flexibility isn’t the same as weakness and laxity though.

Was going to say the same thing. Having some flexibility in your ankles isn't going to make them, same as having flexible open hips doesn't make you more prone to collapsing in the floor when you try and walk.

Nope.

That’s alcohol.

[J_duds]

I hold the top holds (in my case a campus rung), hang, and do various slow and controlled leg raises to either side with a straight leg, alternating legs and then both legs. Kills my core after several sets, not sure if it helps my climbing outside!

Similar to this guy at 15mins into the video:

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually, Steff has an interesting take, that seems to address many of the issues raised in this thread, in terms of overall body strength and flexibility and using stuff found lying around most climbers homes:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKidED8FQGD/?igshid=1c77c6jxj44kl

[Oldmanmatt]

I hold the top holds (in my case a campus rung), hang, and do various slow and controlled leg raises to either side with a straight leg, alternating legs and then both legs. Kills my core after several sets, not sure if it helps my climbing outside!

Similar to this guy at 15mins into the video:

Really, this. Steff is of course an absolute nutter and inhumanly strong, flexible and fearless.

No.1 child was doing a core sesh, yesterday. She does a variation of the “Foot first” thing I mentioned above, as part of her warm up. We have a few boards, this one is a 30⁰ Chaos board (the guys randomly throw “left over” holds on it. Eventually it will be completely chokka. We then use tags or tape to mark problems or circuits, or do shit like this).
Most of those mini volumes are pretty hard to hold on a 30⁰ board:

To my mind, she’s cheating, but you can see the principle. For reference, I tried to follow her, couldn’t finish:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CKhB2E3jb_F/?igshid=z8lm3lmh6dy4

[tomtom]

Actually, Steff has an interesting take, that seems to address many of the issues raised in this thread, in terms of overall body strength and flexibility and using stuff found lying around most climbers homes:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKidED8FQGD/?igshid=1c77c6jxj44kl

Fuck that, imagine having to stick all that lot back on again to do another rep after 3 min.... :D

[Nibile]

Similar to this guy at 15mins into the video:

The abs routine on the mat is sincerely cringeworthy. Things that should be left to vhs tapes from the 80s.
The twisting crunch is now considered the single most dangerous spine movement.
Then, people seem to forget that there are no abs insertions on the femur. Any femur movement is not from abs.
Make of that what you wish.

[mark s]

Deadlifts, always deadlifts.
At least for me it seems to help with lower end chain especially keeping toes on bad footholds.

During my gym rat days, I did the odd session of dead lifts but never got the feeling of muscle growth from other exercises such as benching or oh pressing. I just felt like the chance of an injury was lurking around the corner.

As for o.p
Rings are my fav things to play around on. Also good for my kids. My 2 year swings around on them something crazy. Her hands barely make it over half the ring but she clamps on.

[abarro81]

RE calf pump: if you're not getting pumped you're not kneebaring enough I once tried training calf muscles for a few months by sitting down, putting my knees under a bar with loads of weight (use a thin sit start boulder pad) and doing calf raises. It made no appreciable difference though.

RE: deadlift. Be careful if y'all, it's meant no core training for 3 years for me now. The 0.1% gain in offer isn't worth the risk IMO - just smash out some rings roll-outs, upside down sit ups, legs raises etc..