[shark]

Reminder that this is still going every Thursday at 9pm

If you’d like to join the group message me or Lagers for the zoom link

[lagerstarfish]

Good first meeting.

Just a small group, but enough to show that the tech works.

I'm looking forward to next week.

well, we're still going, a year on from this

that's a lot of talking and listening

we've had a few tears, plenty of anger and some good laughs

thanks everyone

see you next week 

[andy popp]

A wonderful effort - well done Lagers and all involved.

[lagerstarfish]

Thanks for tonight everyone.

We talked about a load of bad stuff, but the good stuff really shone through.

Plenty of good climbing chat as well.

Nice one 

[slab_happy]

Hey, is this still going? Got a boulderer friend I might want to point in this direction.

[shark]

Yes. Every Thursday from 9pm. Ask them to PM me if they are on here or WhatsApp me on 0777 3782763

[slab_happy]

Thanks, will do!

[lagerstarfish]

Good first meeting.

Just a small group, but enough to show that the tech works.

I'm looking forward to next week.

Two years on - we are still going strong

Thank you to everyone who has joined in and contributed

Several of us had more than the usual amount of important stuff to talk about this evening. It went smoothly and respectfully with a nice layer of climbers' humour and support to top it off. Nicely done everyone.

On a personal level, I am still giddy about getting a fantastic Christmas hamper of nice things to eat from the current Black Dog Club regulars. Thank you!

If anyone is thinking about joining in, please message me or Shark with any questions.

[James Malloch]

Good first meeting.

Just a small group, but enough to show that the tech works.

I'm looking forward to next week.

Two years on - we are still going strong

Thank you to everyone who has joined in and contributed

Several of us had more than the usual amount of important stuff to talk about this evening. It went smoothly and respectfully with a nice layer of climbers' humour and support to top it off. Nicely done everyone.

On a personal level, I am still giddy about getting a fantastic Christmas hamper of nice things to eat from the current Black Dog Club regulars. Thank you!

If anyone is thinking about joining in, please message me or Shark with any questions.

This sounds like such an important session for people. Hats off to you setting it up and keeping it going for so long 

[MattW]

It was a 2022 of mixed decision making for me, but joining Black Dog Club certainly ranks high on the good decisions.

I just need to be able to stay up a bit later!

Thanks to all for doing this and listening.

[lagerstarfish]

The lovely folk from Black Dog Club have sent me a load of nice things to eat again

This has made me feel all warm and happy

Thanks everyone!

see you all later tonight

[SA Chris]

Well done lsf, and good job for everyone gifting this to you.

[Fultonius]

I had no idea this was still going - good work Rob and all involved.

[slab_happy]

Fantastic work everyone on keeping it going!

[Falling Down]

Amazing Rob and BD Club.

[kelvin]

The lovely folk from Black Dog Club have sent me a load of nice things to eat again

This has made me feel all warm and happy

Thanks everyone!

see you all later tonight

Nice to see Rob - and well deserved. I personally benefited so much and will be eternally grateful.

[sherlock]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/13/i-was-the-poster-girl-for-ocd-then-i-began-to-question-everything-id-been-told-about-mental-illness&ved=2ahUKEwiVwPnNhsCFAxV7XEEAHaccCEEQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2lJ1MS-I_ArG--W1Tnpkr2
Thought this was a really interesting piece.
I've thought in the past that a heavy use of psychedelics might have led to my mental health issues in the past, I'll maybe have to re-think this after further investigation.

[stone]

She says she has been criticised for being polemical against a straw man mischaracterisation of the medical model of mental illness.

My feeling on reading that is that perhaps she should listen to that criticism and hold back when writing reams of polemic against a straw man mischaracterisation of the medical model of mental illness.

By the end of it, she seems to settle down to less ricocheting between extreme viewpoints -but I'm not sure it is responsible journalism to put the reader through so much straw man guff.

As a contrast, I thought the "is Psychiatry working" series was exemplary https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001h3y5/episodes/player

I'm happy to be corrected about any of this

[Oldmanmatt]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/13/i-was-the-poster-girl-for-ocd-then-i-began-to-question-everything-id-been-told-about-mental-illness&ved=2ahUKEwiVwPnNhsCFAxV7XEEAHaccCEEQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2lJ1MS-I_ArG--W1Tnpkr2
Thought this was a really interesting piece.
I've thought in the past that a heavy use of psychedelics might have led to my mental health issues in the past, I'll maybe have to re-think this after further investigation.

Not sure we read the same article…😉
Obviously it’s not “research” and is filtered through her perceptions, but it didn’t seem to contain anything surprising.
I got:
1: Mental health disorders are emergent properties from complex interactions of environment and biology.
2: Mental health disorders exist on a spectrum without clear boundaries (there is a point, though, on the visible light spectrum, where light is sufficiently Red for most observers to agree that it is Red, not Yellow, but Orange is still a thing).
3: Environment and Stressors change brain chemistry (and architecture? Brains rewire themselves don’t they?), but so do genetic factors and we don’t really know, yet, which is the chicken and which is the egg or even if that’s the right question.

Given the above, it seems to me, a perfectly “healthy” (genetically) brain could be pushed into A. N. Other mental health condition by purely environmental factors, or that a sufficiently genetically predisposed brain could slip into a similar condition with virtually no environmental stressors.

Assuming I haven’t entirely missed the point, it boils down to “it’s complicated”.

So, I’m left asking “what isn’t?”

You break a bone. Healing of the bone is only a small part of your recovery from the injury. There are complex emergent factors of that break (the unpredictable) and complicated injury management issues that cross many human “boundaries” from the physical (muscle atrophy, pain management, connective tissue damage, etc etc) through the psychological (fear of falling, loss of independence, etc etc) and even social/lifestyle stuff ( loss of earnings, career derailment, family/relationship stress, etc etc).

Simple break, less complex recovery management, complicated break, more complex recovery management.
No mental health condition will ever be a simple break, not least because of point 3 above, so symptom management will (probably) always trump treatment of the root cause, because finding the latter will likely remain a tough ask for the foreseeable.

So, I plan to keep on just managing me, not fixing me (gave up some time ago on “fix’).
Though me keeps causing me considerable hassle and puts incredible strain on relationships etc, parts of me are pretty useful and contribute to the “successful” side of me. Being a pedantic, nit picking, overthinker, with obsessive tendencies; makes me good at my job (I design and build ships) but leads my partner and family to contemplate hiring an Assassin or arranging an accident or plain kicking me out.
I’ve been off the SSRI’s for three years, but it took some significant lifestyle changes/management to achieve and actually, the cost at home has proved much greater than imagined, so I’m having behaviour management issues when I’m home. Contemplating resuming anti-depressants, but scared of losing my manic, creative, me (who is very useful, if annoying as fuck), since he is my big earner. Really, I wish I could find a way to keep the highs, but avoid the lows and learn when to shut the fuck up.
Or, in other words, it’s complicated.

[ToxicBilberry]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/13/i-was-the-poster-girl-for-ocd-then-i-began-to-question-everything-id-been-told-about-mental-illness&ved=2ahUKEwiVwPnNhsCFAxV7XEEAHaccCEEQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2lJ1MS-I_ArG--W1Tnpkr2
Thought this was a really interesting piece.
I've thought in the past that a heavy use of psychedelics might have led to my mental health issues in the past, I'll maybe have to re-think this after further investigation.

It was interesting! The author seemed a bit hysterical. Psychedelics can be really rough and unpredictable for mental health. Particularly LSD which can ‘get in your head like a Nazi psychologist’. Psilocybin seems to have been used successfully in depression associated with terminal illness and other traumatic reactions. My impression of the author is that the article is a reflection of her inner chaos with a low level of genuine regard for the minds of others.

[sherlock]

Of course it's complicated and we all have different perspectives but it'll give me something to consider in quieter moments...

[stone]

I’ve been off the SSRI’s for three years, but it took some significant lifestyle changes/management to achieve and actually, the cost at home has proved much greater than imagined, so I’m having behaviour management issues when I’m home. Contemplating resuming anti-depressants, but scared of losing my manic, creative, me (who is very useful, if annoying as fuck), since he is my big earner. Really, I wish I could find a way to keep the highs, but avoid the lows and learn when to shut the fuck up.

Oldmanmatt, thanks for sharing your perspectives and experience of this. I was struck that you have chosen to come off SSRIs because some aspects of the illness are actually positive for you. That's so interesting.

I'm conflicted because on the one hand I'm always eager to hear other people's experiences of dealing with their mental health and on the other hand I'm spooked that something I may say might inadvertently adversely influence how someone else decides to manage their own mental health. I guess so long as I'm upfront about being clueless, then that hopefully should guard against any such issue.

In my own case I was recommended to take olanzapine. I asked to try and recover without it, not because I found any positive aspect to my symptoms but simply because I had a (perhaps entirely unfounded) wariness of that medication. I was allowed to give it a go. I was told though that if I relapsed I wouldn't have a choice in the matter. It's 14 years on now and thankfully I haven't relapsed. I've no idea whether I took a foolhardy risk that I got away with or whether being assiduous in following a WRAP plan etc meant it was a reasonable choice. Anyway, like I said, I'm always interested in hearing other peoples experiences and the perspectives.