[Bonjoy]

I am interested in why you made that decision to home school as you both have a legal entitlement to send your child in.

The ‘should’ is a value judgment made by the school, nothing else. Would you have made the same call if you did not feel guilty about the wording in the letter?

In answer to your interest. Several reasons.
 I agreed with the sentiment of the letter, regardless of the exact details of the school's motives. I think school closures are necessary and the fewer pupils in school the more effective the measure might be.
I think the keyworker distinction is fairly arbitrary in many instances. My wife, though a nurse, only works three days a week away from home. I WFH all my work days. So compared to many non-keyworkers I suspect our circumstances are fairly conducive to home teaching.
Then there is the solidarity argument. Which in this instance I think has some weight.

[tommytwotone]

Will, I think they would just be impressed that you were cutting down the number of days you are usually useless by 40%

 

If our nursery shuts I'm fucked! 1 x 3.5 year old and 1 x 12 month old. I just won't be able to do any meaningful work. Wife is a nurse working in a mental health role so will be doing a bit of home working but also out and about on wards. No idea how the company might react to me telling them that I'm going to be useless for 3 days a week.

Have you talked to YW about furlough? Afaik now it’s more flexible - so you could take 2-3 day’s off and the govt would cover 80% of that cost for your employer?

I may be wrong (check somewhere else) but I know of a couple of colleagues at other universities who are doing this.

I don't think YW have furloughed anybody as yet. I'm sure we'll work something out if it comes to it. I haven't paid much attention to it as it hasn't affected me thus far (wife has been on maternity), and there's no direct comparison in my team as my colleague's kids are all school age, so can at least sit and do their schoolwork without constant supervision.

Was saying just this last night - at least ours aren't really young, and are pretty self-sufficient (though prolonged periods of silence tend to lead to me investigating what they're up to).

My work have been brilliant - message from my boss last night 2 mins after the announcement saying basically do what you need to, we'll make it work.

Have you asked about "flexible working" Will? Whether that's "I'll be online but it'll be reactive so email or Slack me if you need anything, and I'll catch up in the evenings", or a more formal "I'll work 9-11 while the kids nap but then I'm offline till after their bedtime"?

Few years ago when mine were 12 months ish and 3 ish my other half ended up in hospital for couple of weeks, and I ended up doing a mix of the above.

At the end of the day, if you're offering to make it work / give a solution it'd be in their interest to play ball.

[Oldmanmatt]

Well, we just had No.2 spin out and refuse to cooperate and he’s 14. Since Polly is still working full time, I’m the teacher.
This is going to be hard, this time. Complicated by the fact that I’m not actually his dad, something I forget, because I have been (de facto) since a little after his fifth birthday and his real dad died when he was two. I am fairly certain (afraid) I’m about to hear “you’re not my dad” for the first time.

This is because, last time, we made them do all the work set and then, when they went back after summer; it turned out he was one of a very small number that actually did anything and none of it was actually marked. Then the entire autumn term we made him complete all his homework assignments, but none of them were marked or checked (except the Sparks online maths stuff they do). He just doesn’t see the point and thinks we’re making him a mug, because his mates are all on the Xbox etc etc.
I haven’t got a fucking scooby how to deal with this and being a big scary, bald headed, loud, bossy twunt; who’s used to barking orders and being obeyed, does not help. Not-at-fucking-all.

[T_B]

My kids’ school are going to have Google hangouts at 0900 and another one at 1pm to review their work. Register taken. We have to photograph their work and upload it to ClassDojo for feedback/praise etc.

I have to say the Remote Education Plan is pretty impressive, but even I’m thinking a bit more flexibility to work around the, er, parents might be nice. Still, it’s reassuring to know there shouldn’t be anyone falling by the wayside.

My brother’s youngest is 13 and is getting lessons delivered via zoom.

[andy popp]

I am fairly certain (afraid) I’m about to hear “you’re not my dad” for the first time.

Good luck Matt. I've been on the receiving end of this more than once and it hurts (very similar timeline - she's 14 on Friday, her dad died eight years ago, I've been around for about six years). My only advice is; try not to react, at least to those words.

[mrjonathanr]

Thanks for your reply Bonjoy. I admire your stance, it is generous spirited. It’s a personal matter, weighing these things, but tricky when the decision puts the burden of solidarity on your child, that’s why I was interested. For some kids it’s no burden at all, for others it’s very difficult.

If the head wants to say that gov guidance is this, but my personal opinion is that you should not take up your entitlement if you can manage, then at least that is honest. It’s the apparent conflating of the government with the personal pov which is questionable.

[mrjonathanr]

Licence fee payers alert:-

https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2020/bbc-launches-biggest-education-offer-ever

I think this initiative is long overdue. Pleased they have done this. That, and the reclassification of children without laptops as vulnerable, will help a lot of families who can’t access online lessons easily.

That reclassification on the gov website took place on the night of December 30. Given the failure to provide laptops, Ithink it was the right thing to do. It does imply that at that point Whitehall might have been planning for a lockdown however.

[User deactivated.]

Well, we just had No.2 spin out and refuse to cooperate and he’s 14. Since Polly is still working full time, I’m the teacher.
This is going to be hard, this time. Complicated by the fact that I’m not actually his dad, something I forget, because I have been (de facto) since a little after his fifth birthday and his real dad died when he was two. I am fairly certain (afraid) I’m about to hear “you’re not my dad” for the first time.

This is because, last time, we made them do all the work set and then, when they went back after summer; it turned out he was one of a very small number that actually did anything and none of it was actually marked. Then the entire autumn term we made him complete all his homework assignments, but none of them were marked or checked (except the Sparks online maths stuff they do). He just doesn’t see the point and thinks we’re making him a mug, because his mates are all on the Xbox etc etc.
I haven’t got a fucking scooby how to deal with this and being a big scary, bald headed, loud, bossy twunt; who’s used to barking orders and being obeyed, does not help. Not-at-fucking-all.

Perhaps try reframing the idea of learning as getting one over on his mates. While they are killing time he's making progress. This may require restructuring both the teaching itself as well as the reasons for it. If he's not getting marked on it, I assume that means there's scope to go off piste? Teach day-to-day finances, investing, cooking, how to build things out of wood, how to change the oil in the car, etc.

As for the inevitable nasty comments at some point, just remember all 14 year olds are twats. I was, you were and your son is. All of them!

[tomtom]

Good luck OMM - Hopefully the "its only a phase" mantra is right here too....

Just back from drop off - yesterday 8-10 kids, today I counted 28 (year size is 90). They split them into two classes (I understand they limit them to 15). From July times, I seem to remember weds were busiest as its the day when most PT workers were working.

[Oldmanmatt]

Well, we just had No.2 spin out and refuse to cooperate and he’s 14. Since Polly is still working full time, I’m the teacher.
This is going to be hard, this time. Complicated by the fact that I’m not actually his dad, something I forget, because I have been (de facto) since a little after his fifth birthday and his real dad died when he was two. I am fairly certain (afraid) I’m about to hear “you’re not my dad” for the first time.

This is because, last time, we made them do all the work set and then, when they went back after summer; it turned out he was one of a very small number that actually did anything and none of it was actually marked. Then the entire autumn term we made him complete all his homework assignments, but none of them were marked or checked (except the Sparks online maths stuff they do). He just doesn’t see the point and thinks we’re making him a mug, because his mates are all on the Xbox etc etc.
I haven’t got a fucking scooby how to deal with this and being a big scary, bald headed, loud, bossy twunt; who’s used to barking orders and being obeyed, does not help. Not-at-fucking-all.

Perhaps try reframing the idea of learning as getting one over on his mates. While they are killing time he's making progress. This may require restructuring both the teaching itself as well as the reasons for it. If he's not getting marked on it, I assume that means there's scope to go off piste? Teach day-to-day finances, investing, cooking, how to build things out of wood, how to change the oil in the car, etc.

As for the inevitable nasty comments at some point, just remember all 14 year olds are twats. I was, you were and your son is. All of them!

First day, first lesson. No2 child already whinging before starting. Open google classroom. Work set. Un-fucking-known file type. Cue backwards and forward messages with teacher and form tutor, plus texts to classmates and 45 minutes into first lesson they convert file. No.2 currently sat at dining table, wearing a hoody with hood up and muttering under breath about “adults” whilst one finger typing.
No.4 finds no work set for maths. Texts her mates, they decide to get on with Sparks while they’re waiting. I’m busy trying to get No.2 going , I ask if everything is ok and shes busy with calculator etc, she just says “fine”. Then she gets up to find her big sister, I said “ hey, you’re supposed to ask me, she yells back “nah, No,1 knows best”, then reappears having messaged teachers off her own back, screen capped blank classroom page “as insurance” and is ploughing away at “optional” Sparks, because she did all the “compulsory” for the week last night.

Actually, as an Engineer and used to quite “hard” maths, I’m apparently unable to explain simple stuff, without their eyes glazing over...

[tomtom]

Actually, as an Engineer and used to quite “hard” maths, I’m apparently unable to explain simple stuff, without their eyes glazing over...

Its because you're their parent... our 4.5 YO does that with me already - though he may just be copying his mother :D

[tommytwotone]

I am interested in why you made that decision to home school as you both have a legal entitlement to send your child in.

The ‘should’ is a value judgment made by the school, nothing else. Would you have made the same call if you did not feel guilty about the wording in the letter?

In answer to your interest. Several reasons.
 I agreed with the sentiment of the letter, regardless of the exact details of the school's motives. I think school closures are necessary and the fewer pupils in school the more effective the measure might be.
I think the keyworker distinction is fairly arbitrary in many instances. My wife, though a nurse, only works three days a week away from home. I WFH all my work days. So compared to many non-keyworkers I suspect our circumstances are fairly conducive to home teaching.
Then there is the solidarity argument. Which in this instance I think has some weight.

Same here really.

a) Solidarity / "doing our bit", plus my other half is a teacher so we are well aware of the strain this situation is putting the profession through generally.

Through the various news stories over last weekend I've seen comments on social media from people who I considered to be intelligent / educated people along the lines of "of course teachers want the schools closed, all they ever want is an easy life".

I don't think they realise that actually, having the schools open as "normal" is way easier than having to pivot at the last minute, replan lessons, and that's before the logistics of teaching remotely via video conferencing.

b) Not in the same boat as BonJoy re: time, but lucky to have a really understanding employer / job type where I can flex my time around doing home-schooling.

[Oldmanmatt]

Any chance of a thread split?

I think this is a useful topic for many, in it’s own right and there’s a wealth of knowledge and experience on the forum.

It’s 10:20, first day. No.4 has finished and submitted all the work set for the first three lessons of the morning, is just about to submit the first assignment for this afternoon’s lessons and has completed both compulsory and optional Sparks for the entire week.
No.2 is still on first lesson, first task, though the muttering has stopped...

[mrjonathanr]

Hat off to you for having such a supportive attitude. It's not an easy decision.

[Bonjoy]

Any chance of a thread split?

Done

[BrutusTheBear]

From the otherside.. I am a specialist teacher in charge of a group of young people with Autism in a small unit of 8 within a mainstream secondary school. This time around our school is delivering live lessons on Teams and following the normal timetable. I have 6 of the 8 in the unit and 2 remaining at home. We are 2 lessons in. There are of course teething issues with logging in, links that don't work, glitching etc.. However, there have been some really well run classes.  Our pupils have settled in well and are quietly getting on with it.  Meanwhile, staff are buzzing around and getting stressed. It's going to take a few days for everyone to get used to this and figure how to do live online effectively. It will of course improve. Everyone is mucking in and supporting each other with this.  Please bare in mind that school staff have been arsed around massively.
At home child no 1 was sluggish yesterday and didn't get much done, still in holiday mode! I think we'll all settle into this is due course and things will be smoother. Teachers/school staff could definitely do with some of that solidarity at this time.

[James Malloch]

Not that I've any idea about teaching in lockdown (or teaching or children using online learning for that matter)...

Would it not be possible to just live-stream lessons? I.e. teacher in the classroom (even if it's empty) and have kids connect in from a home desk. Perhaps with parents to help as a teaching assistant or something?

I'd guess it would be logistically hard to pace the lessons right, help students out etc and not let some get left behind. Or even have key lessons (e.g. maths, science, english) pre-recorded so that the parent could help play/pause and help out in set intervals when work gets done?

Edit - kind of what Brutus just posted.

[Oldmanmatt]

Cheers for the split!
Brutus, No.s 1&3 start “live lessons” tomorrow. Google Hangout I think. So I’m going to be able to directly compare the two approaches over the next few weeks.
No.s 2&4’s school are pretty responsive. It’s little things, such as No.4’s maths assignments are all on a spread sheet, with weekly topics and classroom/vid links etc etc (on top of Sparks work), but the assignment box for week one (calculators, she yr7) is blank. So a glitch, like the file type for No.2’s D&T stuff.

Anyway, here’s some useful resources, for parents, on line.
Won’t help much, but did help me shift from “Aaarrggh!” to “Oh well, we’ll get there”, today:
https://twitter.com/Scarfolk/status/1346755715441025024

[Oldmanmatt]

Ok.
Just discovered the underlying reason for the different approaches.
Demographics.

School 1, the live online school, have managed to/ have a catchment that has almost universal laptop access. The school is 30% selective “Grammar” and 70% catchment in a relatively affluent area.

School 2 (which is a good school) has a substantial catchment from one of the local deprived areas. They were a long way from universal access to laptops and internet, particularly in families where more than one child needed simultaneous access. Their entire program is replicated on paper and in workbooks for those without laptops, so the whole thing is geared around a weekly work submission. There are scheduled “live” sessions, which can be joined on a phone, for each subject, each week, for teacher/pupil interaction and for explanations beyond the printed/on line material. They learned from their last attempt.
Even the lack of marking, last time, was to prevent those unable from joining, from feeling disadvantaged. They tried to compensate those who worked hard, with merit points and prizes (merit points that can actually be traded for prizes and vouchers).

[SA Chris]

Any chance of a thread split?

Done

Could be tacked onto the thread I started early last year

https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,30549.0.html

[Wil]

Would it not be possible to just live-stream lessons? I.e. teacher in the classroom (even if it's empty) and have kids connect in from a home desk. Perhaps with parents to help as a teaching assistant or something?

Lots of schools are doing this. I'm not teaching at any more, but I would expect it to be very hard for many reasons. Obvious ones are that kids might have access to a laptop, but it's often going to be shared, so they can't be there for the live lesson. Even if they are many of them won't show up and will need work set, which can't necessarily be identical to the lesson work, so that's more workload. My lessons also involve constant feedback to and from pupils as we go, directing them to different tasks and assessing understanding.

It's often very hard to step back from the way we do things and ask "Is this still the best way?" Even harder with limited planning and resources (we hear a lot about kids not having laptops, but there's no guarantee a teacher has one, and if they do they don't necessarily have the right software. E.g. I would be unable to open/edit many of my resources on my home computer).

As a maths teacher it would probably be a better use of time with many groups to have feedback/office hours as the expectation, there are already loads of good resources for video teaching, which many schools will have access to. I'm just unconvinced that live teaching should be the default, because it's a massive time-sink for a teacher and can't/won't be accessed by an awful lot of pupils. I would prefer to have a mix, with some time freed up to contact those pupils who will lack resources/guidance at home.

What have people been sent about schemes of work? That would be the first thing I would send to pupils and parents, and I usually had it to hand with references to page numbers in a textbook and/or online resources, often it was stuck in their books already, at least for the next half term or so.

[tomtom]

In HE, we’ve (been told) to change from giving a 1-2 hour live lecture (face to face - but recorded for catch up) to 3 15-20 min chunks of lecture totally ore recorded. Then face to face or live via Teams etc.. discussion / small group exercises about the content of the lecture.

The idea being to break it up into smaller chunks. I’ve no idea if this is backed up by any science, but this model seems to be largely sector wide.

The interaction is the hard bit - getting people to engage - and a face of black boxes is hard to do this with.

[BrutusTheBear]

James - That is pretty much what our school is doing. Live online classes direct from school with some teachers being at home doing their classes from there because they are shielding. Lessons are functioning slightly differently because having the class there in person is very different.  So getting pacing right, modelling tasks, giving feedback and turning in work is something most will have to adjust to.  For our IT department their lessons are set up using online systems so only need a wee tweak but for some it is a new way of working.
The general feedback from our pupils having experienced set work previously, is that live is much better. They like being able to ask teachers questions and being able to interact. We've also already had messages in from parents saying it is much better. For young people that can be very anxious in big groups it is actually a less stressful and pressurised way to access their learning.  We're just supplementing it with some more social activity and outdoor activity.  Just got back from a pre-lunch walk with a couple of them.

[tommytwotone]

My other half's been told that all the staff need to do into a (largely empty) school to teach lessons from an empty classroom, remotely via Teams.

I gather the question of working from home was asked, but this was denied "because professionalism" - or rather it would only be allowed if the person could guarantee they wouldn't be interrupted while teaching.

Total contract to my work, who are perfectly accepting that this is life. Both my kids make regular cameos on work Zoom calls and everyone's fine with it, make for a much less stressful working from home life.

[Bonjoy]

I gather the question of working from home was asked, but this was denied "because professionalism" - or rather it would only be allowed if the person could guarantee they wouldn't be interrupted while teaching.

I don’t see how they can square that with the clear government stipulation “everyone who can work from home must do so”.