[andy popp]

It was totally obvious this would happen; waiting until after Christmas was moronic.

Why should schools be either closing or opening at short notice at all? Wouldn't both be better if planned, and surely it is reopening that needs more planning? I don't buy the idea that planning is almost impossible.

I hate to bang on about Denmark, because there have been mistakes here too (and obviously there are significant cultural differences), but on Mon 7th December a stringent lockdown was announced, including schools closing from Wed 9th (they'd been due to close on Wed 16th). Other measures included closure of all universities and colleges, all cultural institutions, all gyms and other sports facilities, all places of entertainment, all bars and restaurants (take-out still allowed), new rules on gathering etc. At the same time it was announced all malls and shopping centres would close from the 21st and all other non-essential shops from 24th onward. These measures would be in place until Jan 4th. About a week ago it was announced all measures would be extended until Jan 18th. In other words, everyone has known exactly what the score is since early December and when an extension was necessary we had nearly a week's warning. For what it's worth, all Covid decision-making involves all major political parties and the trade unions. Coherent decision-making is possible.

[Oldmanmatt]

It was totally obvious this would happen; waiting until after Christmas was moronic.

Why should schools be either closing or opening at short notice at all? Wouldn't both be better if planned, and surely it is reopening that needs more planning? I don't buy the idea that planning is almost impossible.

I hate to bang on about Denmark, because there have been mistakes here too (and obviously there are significant cultural differences), but on Mon 7th December a stringent lockdown was announced, including schools closing from Wed 9th (they'd been due to close on Wed 16th). Other measures included closure of all universities and colleges, all cultural institutions, all gyms and other sports facilities, all places of entertainment, all bars and restaurants (take-out still allowed), new rules on gathering etc. At the same time it was announced all malls and shopping centres would close from the 21st and all other non-essential shops from 24th onward. These measures would be in place until Jan 4th. About a week ago it was announced all measures would be extended until Jan 18th. In other words, everyone has known exactly what the score is since early December and when an extension was necessary we had nearly a week's warning. For what it's worth, all Covid decision-making involves all major political parties and the trade unions. Coherent decision-making is possible.

I’m sorry, are you suggesting that the Scandinavian, Nordic, Social Democratic systems of government and societal attitudes; actually work better than our tottering, top heavy, idiocracy?
Be serious, you only have circa 80 years of post-war empirical evidence to support your arguments. I feel sure many economists and the think tanks of the Conservative party, can quite lucidly explain why you are wrong and the evidence is misleading.

Edit:

Obviously I meant “meritocracy”, not “idiocracy” , damn auto correct.

Edit:

No. No I didn’t.

[petejh]

Why should schools be either closing or opening at short notice at all? Wouldn't both be better if planned, and surely it is reopening that needs more planning? I don't buy the idea that planning is almost impossible.

I hate to bang on about Denmark, because there have been mistakes here too (and obviously there are significant cultural differences), but on Mon 7th December a stringent lockdown was announced, including schools closing from Wed 9th (they'd been due to close on Wed 16th).

Not disagreeing that the UK gov's approach has lacked foresight and that everything's been short-notice... But doesn't the first part of what you just posted basically amount to Denmark changing their mind at short-notice about closing schools?!

The rest of it sounds better planned (than the UK), like you say.

[andy popp]

Yes, you're right really Pete. I was really trying to pick up on Will's contention that there's some kind of trade-off between closing/opening at short notice, which I don't get. I should have been clearer. At the same time, the December school closure was short notice but still orderly. I guess you can plan to be prepared for a short notice closure to happen (as I know was happening at my institution).

[Ru]

The issue in the UK wasn't really the short notice, it was the fact that it's been obvious for about 3 weeks that the schools would have to close, but up until very shortly before the decision the government were not only denying that all schools would close but were actively putting forwards arguments that they should stay open.

[andy popp]

The point I was trying - not very clearly - to make about orderliness and preparedness.

[ali k]

...until very shortly before the decision the government were not only denying that all schools would close but were actively putting forwards arguments that they should stay open.

Don't forget the threatened legal action from the govt forcing them to stay open.

[mrjonathanr]

@Andy

Yes,yes, yes. Open/closed. It’s a false dichotomy.

Instead of this exercise in keeping everyone outside of cabinet guessing, the government should have set up a forum including teachers, academics and parents to structure a flexible learning strategy so that either/or was never the question. It is not as if schools were 100% open in the autumn had 100% attendance. Far from it.

I can’t believe the administration aspires to an education strategy in response to the pandemic, because all we have seen is short term reactive tactics.

All the laptops promised last spring not yet delivered. OakAcademy only available via internet - what’s wrong with free view?? The lack of ambition is sad.

[T_B]

Schools might be ‘closed’ but over 50% of the children in my kid’s (Junior) school are still attending.

I’d be interested to know what the national average is of continued attendance due to ‘key worker’ parents/vulnerable kids.

And Majestic Wine is open this time around.

Hmm.

[tomtom]

Schools might be ‘closed’ but over 50% of the children in my kid’s (Junior) school are still attending.

In our Sons reception year - this morning there were 8-12 out of 90.

We also had an email asking if anyone wanted to apply for one of the Government supplied laptops. Our primary is three form entry so approximately 600 pupils (wide mix of social background) and had been provided with 3 (Three) laptops.

[tommytwotone]

Schools might be ‘closed’ but over 50% of the children in my kid’s (Junior) school are still attending.

I’d be interested to know what the national average is of continued attendance due to ‘key worker’ parents/vulnerable kids.

And Majestic Wine is open this time around.

Hmm.

Our daughter's school issued their comms saying that you should only request a place if you have keyworker as a parent AND you can absolutely not keep them at home.

Other half is a secondary teacher, but as a WFH IT person I can't justify that so now I have job and childcare / home school juggling fun to contend with!

[tomtom]

Our daughter's school issued their comms saying that you should only request a place if you have keyworker as a parent AND you can absolutely not keep them at home.

Clearly the situation is not the same everywhere... (which doesnt help....)

[Bonjoy]

Schools might be ‘closed’ but over 50% of the children in my kid’s (Junior) school are still attending.

I’d be interested to know what the national average is of continued attendance due to ‘key worker’ parents/vulnerable kids.

And Majestic Wine is open this time around.

Hmm.

Our daughter's school issued their comms saying that you should only request a place if you have keyworker as a parent AND you can absolutely not keep them at home.

Other half is a secondary teacher, but as a WFH IT person I can't justify that so now I have job and childcare / home school juggling fun to contend with!

We received a letter with much the same wording. So whilst we could apply for our son to go in to school, as my wife is an NHS nurse, we both agree it'd be taking the piss to do so, given we only have one child, and I WFH.

[tommytwotone]

Our reasoning too. Also have son in nursery who could go (as they are open for some unknown reason) but we've kept him off as it just doesn't make sense to send him in.

[mrjonathanr]

I am interested in why you made that decision to home school as you both have a legal entitlement to send your child in.

The ‘should’ is a value judgment made by the school, nothing else. Would you have made the same call if you did not feel guilty about the wording in the letter?

[chris j]

Our daughter's school issued their comms saying that you should only request a place if you have keyworker as a parent AND you can absolutely not keep them at home.

Our daughter's primary school did much the same except they chose to say 'critical keyworkers' only who are 'critical to the covid-19 response'. Given their actions and communication in the first lockdown I'd suggest they're actively trying to discourage people from sending kids in. (I think about 30% of the school is potentially keyworker status). Hopefully their remote learning support will be better thought through than the minimalist spring effort of four sparse pages of apparently random ideas per fortnight...

[largeruk]

Licence fee payers alert:-

https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2020/bbc-launches-biggest-education-offer-ever

[tomtom]

We could (with some re-arranging) look after ours for two school days a week - and we asked about this today. Our answer was that it really didn’t matter - that he could come in all days no problem. we were given the distinct impression they were glad to have the numbers.

As with other posts - it probably depends on the numbers they have to deal with and how many staff they have etc.. at no point have we been discouraged to send him in.

[Oldmanmatt]

Oh boy, do we have fun.

Four kids, two schools, totally different arrangements.
No.1&3 don’t start until Thursday, are in live lessons on their normal timetable, with registers etc.
No.2&4 will have “work set to complete each day” to be submitted before the start of the next day.

First school sent out a detailed, 11 page guide and teaching notes for parents and a “your children will attend/be online or a swarm of murder hornets will be mailed to your address, First Class” type letter.
Second school sent a paragraph of bumf and a single sentence about how it would work.

[Will Hunt]

If our nursery shuts I'm fucked! 1 x 3.5 year old and 1 x 12 month old. I just won't be able to do any meaningful work. Wife is a nurse working in a mental health role so will be doing a bit of home working but also out and about on wards. No idea how the company might react to me telling them that I'm going to be useless for 3 days a week.

[chris j]

@Oldmanmatt: Oh my!

Our youngest will be carrying on with his 3 days a week at pre-school as they sent an email saying we're open and please keep sending the children. Katherine most likely won't be going to school as my wife is susceptible to the type of guilt-inducing email the school sent us. I would send her in a heartbeat as even 1 or 2 days a week would be a huge mental and emotional benefit to both daughter and wife but as I'm on a boat halfway between the Shetlands and Norway I don't have much practical influence...

[dunnyg]

Will, I think they would just be impressed that you were cutting down the number of days you are usually useless by 40%

[tomtom]

If our nursery shuts I'm fucked! 1 x 3.5 year old and 1 x 12 month old. I just won't be able to do any meaningful work. Wife is a nurse working in a mental health role so will be doing a bit of home working but also out and about on wards. No idea how the company might react to me telling them that I'm going to be useless for 3 days a week.

Have you talked to YW about furlough? Afaik now it’s more flexible - so you could take 2-3 day’s off and the govt would cover 80% of that cost for your employer?

I may be wrong (check somewhere else) but I know of a couple of colleagues at other universities who are doing this.

[Will Hunt]

Will, I think they would just be impressed that you were cutting down the number of days you are usually useless by 40%

 

If our nursery shuts I'm fucked! 1 x 3.5 year old and 1 x 12 month old. I just won't be able to do any meaningful work. Wife is a nurse working in a mental health role so will be doing a bit of home working but also out and about on wards. No idea how the company might react to me telling them that I'm going to be useless for 3 days a week.

Have you talked to YW about furlough? Afaik now it’s more flexible - so you could take 2-3 day’s off and the govt would cover 80% of that cost for your employer?

I may be wrong (check somewhere else) but I know of a couple of colleagues at other universities who are doing this.

I don't think YW have furloughed anybody as yet. I'm sure we'll work something out if it comes to it. I haven't paid much attention to it as it hasn't affected me thus far (wife has been on maternity), and there's no direct comparison in my team as my colleague's kids are all school age, so can at least sit and do their schoolwork without constant supervision.

[Oldmanmatt]

Oh boy, do we have fun.

Four kids, two schools, totally different arrangements.
No.1&3 don’t start until Thursday, are in live lessons on their normal timetable, with registers etc.
No.2&4 will have “work set to complete each day” to be submitted before the start of the next day.

First school sent out a detailed, 11 page guide and teaching notes for parents and a “your children will attend/be online or a swarm of murder hornets will be mailed to your address, First Class” type letter.
Second school sent a paragraph of bumf and a single sentence about how it would work.

I have to retract the statement about school 2. We just received an email with the detailed scheme and a time table for live lesson support. When I say just, I mean 10 minutes ago, so somebody is burning the midnight oil to get on top of this.